***OFFICIAL NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS SEASON THREAD*** (13-4) - Patriots @ Broncos - Sun 3:05PM EST - Bra

Bill Barnwell from Grantland on Patriots vs. Packers game.
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If Sunday’s game between the Packers and the Patriots was actually a preview of the Super Bowl, we’ve got a very exciting game on tap in February. Green Bay’s 26-21 victory over New England was a rare bird, a game in which the Packers were favored to win from start to finish and yet never really enjoyed a moment when it felt like they had knocked the Patriots out until the final third-down conversion, when Aaron Rodgers found Randall Cobb just before the two-minute warning. Green Bay’s win didn’t reveal any fatal flaw in Bill Belichick & Co., but the Packers executed a logical, sound game plan and showed how they might again choose to attack New England if this does turn out to be the first in a series of two games.

Belichick’s reputation, going back most famously to his hit–Marshall Faulk game plan against the Rams in Super Bowl XXXVI, is that he tries to build his defensive scheme to take away the opposing offense’s most important weapon. His affinity for that sort of plan is overstated — everybody tries to take away the offense’s top player — but it still happens frequently enough that it’s worth mentioning. Two weeks ago, for example, Belichick built his game plan against the Colts around doubling T.Y. Hilton and hoping that the rest of his defense could hold up one-on-one, which they did comfortably.

This time around, perhaps anticipating that the Packers would suspect a similar sort of approach, Belichick went in a different direction. Facing a Colts-like offense — West Coast scheme, hurry-up possibilities, terrifying quarterback, several devastating receivers, decent running game, questionable offensive line — Belichick stuck his best guy on the most important target. Darrelle Revis began the game on Randall Cobb, but he spent most of the afternoon matched up against Jordy Nelson.

Revis was good enough to force Rodgers to look in a different direction for most of the day, holding Nelson to just two catches on six targets, but one of those catches was a 45-yard touchdown just before halftime, when Nelson created separation on his slant route and then accelerated past safety Devin McCourty for a touchdown. Revis claimed afterward that Nelson pushed off, which seems like an odd complaint from a Belichick defensive back, even in 2014. People will say that Nelson “burned” Revis because Revis’s rep leads him to take the blame for these sorts of things, but really, the bigger mistake came from McCourty, who didn’t do enough to cut off Nelson’s post-catch angle and allowed him to get to the pylon. A slant and a tackle, and the Packers probably kick a field goal.

With Nelson mostly subdued, the Packers made hay on offense by attacking the weaker points of New England’s coverage. The unlikely focal point was rookie wideout Davante Adams, who had the best game of his young career. Adams caught six passes for 121 yards, absolutely laying waste to overmatched Patriots cornerback Logan Ryan. Ryan was replaced during the game by Kyle Arrington and then by Alfonzo Dennard, but he somehow kept sneaking back in, only for Rodgers to find the second-year corner for yet another completion. It could have been worse, but Adams dropped what would have likely been a game-clinching touchdown on a slant after obliterating Ryan in the fourth quarter.

Ryan was the primary culprit, but other players had issues, including at a problem spot for what is otherwise an excellent New England pass defense. The Patriots were 30th in DVOA on throws to tight ends heading into the game, allowing a league-high 73.5 passing yards per game. The Packers don’t have a tight end who strikes fear into opposing defenses, but rookie Richard Rodgers came up with a 32-yard touchdown catch on a perfectly thrown ball over Patrick Chung. Chung has been a pleasant surprise in his return to New England, but the Patriots don’t have an obvious candidate to deal with tight ends, something that looms as an issue with the likes of Antonio Gates and Julius Thomas waiting in the January wings.

Poor Rob Ninkovich didn’t have the best day of his career, either. Ninkovich is a criminally underrated player, a versatile front-seven piece who does a wider variety of things than just about any defensive end in football while playing just about every snap. He played every defensive snap Sunday, but the Patriots asked too much of him. It showed most notably when the Packers went with a trips bunch to ensure a man-to-man look and lined up Randall Cobb in the backfield, only to run Cobb out on a wheel route against the overmatched Ninkovich for 33 yards. It was an interesting wrinkle, one the Packers pulled out more frequently earlier in Cobb’s career.

The Patriots also used Ninkovich as a spy on Aaron Rodgers at times, a move I was surprised to not see more frequently. This was a first viewing and so the possibility exists that the Patriots did more to limit or spy on Rodgers than I saw at first glance, but Rodgers had a lot of freedom, especially in the first half, to move around and out of the pocket before making plays.

By the end of the game, Ninkovich and the Patriots pass rush both appeared to be gassed. Rodgers was left with stunning amounts of time to throw on a pair of key late passes, first on a second-and-5 in the red zone when the coverage held up forever and Rodgers had 11.5 seconds in the pocket before throwing the ball away (just before the Adams drop). Then, on the final meaningful play of the game, Rodgers had 4.5 seconds to find Cobb, who beat Ryan and then Dont’a Hightower, continuing his route to give Rodgers just enough of a window to win the game:

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Per ESPN Stats & Information, opposing passers take 2.68 seconds per pass before throwing against the Patriots, the second-highest figure in the league.[sup]1[/sup] Some of that has to do with New England’s ability to cover in the secondary, but the Patriots are pressuring opposing passers on only 23.4 percent of dropbacks, which is 24th in the league. Both figures have gotten slightly worse for the Patriots since Chandler Jones went down with a hip injury in Week 7, and while New England has found unlikely pass-rushing contributions from Akeem Ayers and Deontae Skinner, the team badly misses Jones. Even an average amount of pressure on that last third-down play and Rodgers has to force a throw without the time for Cobb to get open.

For all of those faults, the Patriots managed to stay in the game by stopping the Packers in the red zone. Green Bay took four trips inside the 20 and came away with four field goals. That’s a trick Belichick’s defenses have come up with at times in the past, but evidence suggests it’s not a repeatable skill, and even this year, the Patriots haven’t been an especially good red zone defense. New England ranked 20th in points per red zone trip (5.03) heading into this week, even while delivering one of the better defenses in football outside of the red zone.

I was also surprised with New England’s game plan on offense. I was expecting to see the Patriots go after Green Bay’s 22nd-ranked run defense, perhaps employing some of the six-lineman sets they used with great success against Indianapolis two weeks ago to move the ball effectively while keeping Rodgers off the field.

The Patriots stayed away from the six-lineman sets[sup]2[/sup] and didn’t run the ball very frequently, which might have hurt them. They were very successful when they did choose to hand the ball off, with their four running backs combining for 85 yards on 17 carries, averaging an even five yards per attempt. The foursome — which included Brandon Bolden this week, almost surely to irritate fantasy owners who spent their life savings on Jonas Gray two weeks ago — never broke a big run, but they did run for four yards or more on eight of their 17 carries.

Instead, this was a more typical Patriots approach to winning a football game: daring the opposing team to stop Rob Gronkowski and Julian Edelman. Twenty-nine of Tom Brady’s 35 pass attempts were thrown toward Gronk, Edelman, or Brandon LaFell, with those throws producing 19 completions for 184 yards. The Patriots got some help when Sam Shields went down with a first-half concussion and was replaced by Davon House, which is the name you say to a Packers fan if you want them to cower in fear. House did his best, but LaFell took advantage of House’s inability to turn around to the football on LaFell’s second touchdown catch.

The Packers did just enough to hold on for the victory. They were maybe one Gronk roll away from trailing, as Brady managed to get Gronkowski isolated versus rookie first-rounder Ha Ha Clinton-Dix on New England’s final drive, only for Gronkowski to lose the ball as he was rolling in the end zone. That would have given the Patriots a 27-26 lead, pending an obvious two-point conversion try, with 3:31 left. Instead, Brady took a killer sack on third down when Mike Neal got around left tackle Nate Solder and forced Brady to step up into lineman Mike Daniels, at which point Stephen Gostkowski missed a field goal that would have brought the Patriots within two.

Belichick will look back on missed opportunities. He may rue punting twice around midfield on fourth-and-short in the first half. Perhaps he (and Josh McDaniels) should have run the ball more. Maybe they needed to spy on Rodgers on a more regular basis. At the same time, this wasn’t the sort of game where one fix could have dramatically affected the contest. Both teams made adjustments throughout and played at a high level. Somebody had to lose. Belichick will surely hope his opportunity to implement changes and get another shot at Rodgers and Mike McCarthy comes sooner rather than later. February would be soon enough.
 
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im not there every day , but from what ive seen i dont get why ryan is getting more snaps than dennard
 
The big homie Greg Bedard is giving the people a preview of what's to come today from 2-4.
@GregABedard
Their technique press technique is crap, and has been for as long as I've been here. 
@GregABedard
Dan Connolly is going to have nightmares about Mike Daniels for a while. Worse game I've seen 63 play. Daniels is damn good but 63 prob hurt 
@GregABedard
Patriots' offensive game plan and execution was back to pre-Bengals game. You can't allow Brady to face 39.5% pressure. Period. Bad plan. 
@Sixchr
@GregABedard Well when your DB coach is from the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology... 
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Word to the regression from rookie year to 2nd from Logan Ryan, Devin McCourty, Darius Butler, etc. I don't know what's going on with Dennard, but seems like he might have got hit with the same bug this season. Malcolm Butler was very solid in camp and pre-season and the same **** is happening to him too.

Say what you want but the homegrown DB regression **** is just as bad, if not worse, than what happens here to WR's. And these are the guys who've "made it" aka not a complete bust from the start.

I just hope it doesn't come back to bite their *** again when it matters in a few weeks.
 
interested to hear what he has to say but this seems like a pretty big overreaction . im sure their technique hasnt been great , but our secondary has been amazing and other than Ryan played pretty well against GB at lambo IMO . to now promote a narrative about them being terrible is a bit over the top
 
interested to hear what he has to say but this seems like a pretty big overreaction . im sure their technique hasnt been great , but our secondary has been amazing and other than Ryan played pretty well against GB at lambo IMO . to now promote a narrative about them being terrible is a bit over the top
Check that again bruh. I just finished listening to the podcast. He's specifically talking about the homegrown DB's that were drafted and developed in the Patriots system and not Browner/Revis, whom we all agree are the reasons the secondary is flourishing now compared to previous seasons. The trickle-down effect of having Revis/Browner as the starters is our homegrown guys are slotted down to where they should be and aren't stuck covering the Demaryius Thomas and Jordy Nelson's of the NFL.

Dennard and Arrington also played poorly too and that caused constant rotations in our lineup (to be fair, Arrington is dealing with an injury).

What makes the Packer game different from what we've seen this year is McCarthy went into it accepting that his top two WR's were gonna be mostly taken away, and instead decided to attack the 3's and 4's with great success. They dictated favorable match-ups based on pre-snap formations and motions and it's something that I'm sure other teams have taken notice of and will try to replicate.

I like Bedard because he's not a narratives guy and backs up all his opinions with actual data. The trend of our homegrown DB's regressing after good rookie years isn't anything new. There's too many examples to make note of so it can't be ignored.

I'm not panicking about it. I still feel we're in a good spot after the L and it can be used in a positive way going forward since it was our first true playoff type game with this group. It'll be harder for other teams to exploit that weakness when Chandler Jones returns and the pass rush gets a boost.

South Dakota School of Mines and Technology though.
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Check that again bruh. I just finished listening to the podcast. He's specifically talking about the homegrown DB's that were drafted and developed in the Patriots system and not Browner/Revis, whom we all agree are the reasons the secondary is flourishing now compared to previous seasons. The trickle-down effect of having Revis/Browner as the starters is our homegrown guys are slotted down to where they should be and aren't stuck covering the Demaryius Thomas and Jordy Nelson's of the NFL.

Dennard and Arrington also played poorly too and that caused constant rotations in our lineup (to be fair, Arrington is dealing with an injury).

What makes the Packer game different from what we've seen this year is McCarthy went into it accepting that his top two WR's were gonna be mostly taken away, and instead decided to attack the 3's and 4's with great success. They dictated favorable match-ups based on pre-snap formations and motions and it's something that I'm sure other teams have taken notice of and will try to replicate.

I like Bedard because he's not a narratives guy and backs up all his opinions with actual data. The trend of our homegrown DB's regressing after good rookie years isn't anything new. There's too many examples to make note of so it can't be ignored.

I'm not panicking about it. I still feel we're in a good spot after the L and it can be used in a positive way going forward since it was our first true playoff type game with this group. It'll be harder for other teams to exploit that weakness when Chandler Jones returns and the pass rush gets a boost.

South Dakota School of Mines and Technology though. :lol: :smh: :smh: :smh:  

gotcha , that makes more sense . ill give the podcast a listen -- is it in hour 2 ?
 
Check that again bruh. I just finished listening to the podcast. He's specifically talking about the homegrown DB's that were drafted and developed in the Patriots system and not Browner/Revis, whom we all agree are the reasons the secondary is flourishing now compared to previous seasons. The trickle-down effect of having Revis/Browner as the starters is our homegrown guys are slotted down to where they should be and aren't stuck covering the Demaryius Thomas and Jordy Nelson's of the NFL.

Dennard and Arrington also played poorly too and that caused constant rotations in our lineup (to be fair, Arrington is dealing with an injury).

What makes the Packer game different from what we've seen this year is McCarthy went into it accepting that his top two WR's were gonna be mostly taken away, and instead decided to attack the 3's and 4's with great success. They dictated favorable match-ups based on pre-snap formations and motions and it's something that I'm sure other teams have taken notice of and will try to replicate.

I like Bedard because he's not a narratives guy and backs up all his opinions with actual data. The trend of our homegrown DB's regressing after good rookie years isn't anything new. There's too many examples to make note of so it can't be ignored.

I'm not panicking about it. I still feel we're in a good spot after the L and it can be used in a positive way going forward since it was our first true playoff type game with this group. It'll be harder for other teams to exploit that weakness when Chandler Jones returns and the pass rush gets a boost.

South Dakota School of Mines and Technology though. :lol: :smh: :smh: :smh:  

gotcha , that makes more sense . ill give the podcast a listen -- is it in hour 2 ?

it totally makes sense too. these kids come in their rookie years and actually perform great at corner. mccourty, dennard, ryan...and then year 2 it starts to go to hell as they get more and more coached up. pretty nuts. moving mccourty to safety of course has been great. but dennard cant even get on the field and ryan is buns this year.
 
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I listened to the podcast. I like Bedard because like DSK said he doesn't seem to have an agenda and he actually watches film. At the same time I think they're a lot variables involved when assessing our recent CBs

Dmac for example excelled at corner when were playing more of a off man/ zone based coverage scheme. The following year we started the season playing press man coverage and that's when we seen him get exposed and give up big plays

As far as Ryan he played well last year in spurts. He has really good ball skills that allowed him to mask some of his defiencies and grab 5 picks but let's not act like he was just flat out shutting ****** down :lol: . He was one of our biggest liabilities in the playoffs last year. I would have to do a lil digging for the exact numbers but in those two games against the Colts and Broncos damn near EVERY pass that went his way was a completion literally, it was like a 80% completion rating :lol: :smh:

I'm not sure wtf happened to Dennard but I think Arrington would be an exception to this line of thinking. He came in on the practice squad kinda got threw to the wolves and struggled. I know y'all remember how bad dudes hated him :lol:. He came back that next year and grabbed 7 picks (prolly cause he got targeted so much :lol: :smh:). Since 2012 however, when we picked up Talib and allowed him to slide inside, he's legit turned into a top slot corner in the league.

With that said it's no secret drafting and developing DBs has been a definite weak point with our team and I honestly thinks it's a combo of talent evaluation, internal development and defensive scheme.

What I have a problem with tho is tryna **** on where Boyer coached at for a whole one year before he came here. BB is notoriously hands on with every aspect of this team ESPECIALLY the defense, you think he's gonna sit back and let someone teach his DBs something incongruent with his coaching philosophy?

All in all keep coming with the discussions brehs :pimp:
 
about practice today; held at the Univ of San Diego:

Defensive end Chandler Jones (hip) participated and looked to be moving pretty well.

Long snapper Danny Aiken (concussion) wore a red noncontact jersey. Linebacker Dont'a Hightower and left guard Dan Connolly also appeared to be limited in the brief time reporters were present.
 
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Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 52m52 minutes ago
Patriots announced they placed WR Aaron Dobson on IR.

i new missing most of offseason workouts and training camp would put this guy way behind and get him off on the wrong foot this year. hopefully he heals up and is ready to go next year. still believe that he is a talent that can contribute.
 
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gotcha , that makes more sense . ill give the podcast a listen -- is it in hour 2 ?
My bad for the late reply and you might have heard it already, but they start early in Hour 1 from Tuesday. They get into it within the first long segment.
it totally makes sense too. these kids come in their rookie years and actually perform great at corner. mccourty, dennard, ryan...and then year 2 it starts to go to hell as they get more and more coached up. pretty nuts. moving mccourty to safety of course has been great. but dennard cant even get on the field and ryan is buns this year.
I'd include the Butler's (Darius and Malcolm) on the regression list. Malcolm forced his way onto the roster as an undrafted invitee from his play in camp and pre-season and now every time I see him out there he looks worse.
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There's something to it.
I listened to the podcast. I like Bedard because like DSK said he doesn't seem to have an agenda and he actually watches film. At the same time I think they're a lot variables involved when assessing our recent CBs

Dmac for example excelled at corner when were playing more of a off man/ zone based coverage scheme. The following year we started the season playing press man coverage and that's when we seen him get exposed and give up big plays

As far as Ryan he played well last year in spurts. He has really good ball skills that allowed him to mask some of his defiencies and grab 5 picks but let's not act like he was just flat out shutting ****** down
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. He was one of our biggest liabilities in the playoffs last year. I would have to do a lil digging for the exact numbers but in those two games against the Colts and Broncos damn near EVERY pass that went his way was a completion literally, it was like a 80% completion rating
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I'm not sure wtf happened to Dennard but I think Arrington would be an exception to this line of thinking. He came in on the practice squad kinda got threw to the wolves and struggled. I know y'all remember how bad dudes hated him
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. He came back that next year and grabbed 7 picks (prolly cause he got targeted so much
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). Since 2012 however, when we picked up Talib and allowed him to slide inside, he's legit turned into a top slot corner in the league.

With that said it's no secret drafting and developing DBs has been a definite weak point with our team and I honestly thinks it's a combo of talent evaluation, internal development and defensive scheme.

What I have a problem with tho is tryna **** on where Boyer coached at for a whole one year before he came here. BB is notoriously hands on with every aspect of this team ESPECIALLY the defense, you think he's gonna sit back and let someone teach his DBs something incongruent with his coaching philosophy?

All in all keep coming with the discussions brehs
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Good post. Agree w/ you about Arrington...that's why I left him off the list.

BB is hands on and sometimes spends extra time with certain groups when he feels it's necessary, but he's not there to babysit guys either. From everything I've heard/seen/read, he allows his coaches to coach 'em up and trusts them to follow his lead. The only exception to the hands on thing was Scar. Bill let him do his thing and never interfered with the o-line gawd.

I find the Boyer thing funny, even though I really shouldn't. They got his *** all the way out from the damn boonies.
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Now that I think about it, have we EVER fired a coach under Belichick?
Now that you mention it...no, I don't think so.
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IDK I really do think there's something to the fact that BB likes taking young "scrappy" guys under his coaching wing that he can mold and keep in the org. for continuity. And how much do we see that same philosophy apply to our roster moves? Nothing he loves more than the underdog who pays his dues and develops in the PATRIOTS WAY system.
Never understood the fascination with that guy. He's big and fast and all, but he drops the ball...a lot.
Dropsies? Yes. Fast? Not really.

I just find it disappointing that either he or them punted on this season due to the issue with the foot. Maybe like DSA mentioned there was no chance he'd make meaningful contributions at all after having the surgery so late. Just gotta hope he bounces back in Year 3 and is motivated enough to not fall in that WR bust group.
 
It's frustrating cause we actually went and grabbed a receiver in the 2nd round and although the verdict is still out,  it's not looking good early.  Just like most of the other receivers we've drafted. 

BB just cannot draft and develop WRs and DBs for whatever reason 
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In the last 10 years we've drafted 10 receivers; 4 of em in the first three rounds.

These WR are:

2014 - Jeremy Gallon - 7th round

2013 -Aaron Dobson - 2nd round

           Josh Boyce - 4th round

2012 - Jeremy Ebert - 7th round

2010 - Taylor Price - 3rd round 

2009 - Brandon Tate - 3rd round

2009 - Julian Edelman - 7th round

2008 - Matt Slater - 5th round

2006 - Chad Jackson - 2nd round 
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2004 - P.K. Sam - 5th round 

So out of that the only ones flourishing are a converted QB and ST All Star (No hate on Slater he's one of the best in the biz) 
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Haven't really seen enough of Josh Boyce yet so idk about him but hopefully Dobson can have a good offseason and come back strong next year
 
I'm disappointed to hear about AD. I feel like he had the most potential out of the receivers brought in last year and he was a solid deep option last year when healthy. I just hope he can stay healthy and focused on improving and getting ready for next season.

That list of drafted WR's is depressing :x
 
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