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topic would go way different if the majority had degrees instead of the other way around
66 Billion Dollars with no college degree is unreal right Vol. Richest Man in America
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by reggiekiller,
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dahuhuhyah
Banned
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Amen
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That's the real key, it's a hard road tho
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It doesnt have to.
A proper example of this would be Switzerland.
Not even 75% of their high school graduates go to college. Many apprentice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Switzerland#Tertiary
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i don't think anyone is against college.
Bill Gates isn't against college, but the college system (approach) needs to reformed and viable alternatives need to be looked at and respected.
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thats the exact problem tho. capable people missing out on easy *** jobs because they dont have a degree. they would rather hire the person that bought their competitive advantage than the one who was forced to actually grow up a little sooner
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I'll put it like this. You learn most of what you need to know on the job.
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Word, I've noticed as I got older that the same things that were valued in the past are still valued, just in a different way. We still value knowledge and education, however, there are so many ways that we can gain it now and yet society says "Well, a degree would prove that you are a hard worker and capable or doing great on this job" however, u have those that get 4.0's all 4 years taking candy from a shady man in an old van, no common sense/street smarts.
Like I said before that got ignored, the American education system needs a complete overhaul
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well put.
Top Boy
formerly jay patt
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You also have to factor in those college students that get impractical degrees.
Obviously if you come out with a social work or art degree you're going to go right back to **** shoveling like everyone else.
Get your degree in something practical, and while your in school go get an internship or a job related to that degree so you're also one of those "perfect" candidates.
To do yourself an even better solid, go get your masters immediately after your bachelors while still knocking those internships out like clockwork and you'll be posting in the cars thread with your M3 beamer.
Obviously if you come out with a social work or art degree you're going to go right back to **** shoveling like everyone else.
Get your degree in something practical, and while your in school go get an internship or a job related to that degree so you're also one of those "perfect" candidates.
To do yourself an even better solid, go get your masters immediately after your bachelors while still knocking those internships out like clockwork and you'll be posting in the cars thread with your M3 beamer.
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No such thing as n impractical degree. Just impractical people who don't do the work it takes to make use of those degrees before they graduate.
English majors are some of the most in demand people nowadays. The ones who grind and hustle have way more options than someone who has a degree in economics or business management.
English majors are some of the most in demand people nowadays. The ones who grind and hustle have way more options than someone who has a degree in economics or business management.
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I don't think most are against college, just many dont agree that it's the end all be all, especially when so many graduates nowadays can't find jobs in their fields. I have graduate friends working in their respective fields, graduate friends working "regular" jobs, and dropout friends with "professional" jobs so things can go several different ways. I disagree that GPA is a solid measure of intelligence or work ethic, but I'm biased because I didn't finish and I think I'm a genius
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The fact that there are college graduates having a hard time getting jobs in high paying, professional fields should never be construed to mean college isn't useful in getting a job. If it's that hard attaining a satisfying job WITH a degree, you are totally shutting yourself out of many, many professional opportunities without a degree. Anecdotal evidence about friends without degrees getting corporate jobs doesn't change logic.
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will the asian and south east asian posters please identify themselves?
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This is always on interesting topic and unfortunately very relevant yet once again.
I think it's great that Bill Gates is not only pointing out the problem, but actually coming up with ideas for possible solutions. And they're great, don't get me wrong. However it is a very complex question, which I am not nearly as informed to fully answer. However I do think, that I don't find arguments valid, when people without degrees are expecting jobs/positions/salaries without a degree as those with at least a college education.
I do think experience is crucial and this is something many undergrads overlook and thus have to face unemployment, but we are no longer in an era, where it is so rare to have a degree that it automatically results in a great job. On contrary those who aren't willing to put in the extra effort to study 3-5 years after high school, shouldn't have such high expectations. I'm not saying that they are dumb or anything, because they have competencies others may lack. It is great to hire upon knowledge which can, because I personally also prefer to study at home, instead of having to only prepare for exams and study unnecessary things. However the people you meet, will influence you much more in many cases than the actual curriculum.
I do understand that many hate high school, because they learn a lot of things that are apparently useless, however they must acknowledge the fact that there are many things that one needs to known in order to have a base of knowledge. I mean, I do understand teachers are terrible and schools vary greatly, but at the end of the day knowing about Homer and Delacroix and the basics of calculus are equally as important and of use to everyone, even if they don't use it on a daily basis.
I do agree that reforms should be taken, but many should finally acknowledge that college and the debt attached to it isn't meant for everyone, if they want to/can settle for less, or simply don't have the capabilities. Not everyone should expect to be paid like a Harvard or MIT graduate simply, because they don't have the willingness to study, the discipline etc. to study so much. And financials although can be an issue, I do think that those who are truly dedicated can risk taking the loan or can apply for some sort of funding or scholarship.
I think it's great that Bill Gates is not only pointing out the problem, but actually coming up with ideas for possible solutions. And they're great, don't get me wrong. However it is a very complex question, which I am not nearly as informed to fully answer. However I do think, that I don't find arguments valid, when people without degrees are expecting jobs/positions/salaries without a degree as those with at least a college education.
I do think experience is crucial and this is something many undergrads overlook and thus have to face unemployment, but we are no longer in an era, where it is so rare to have a degree that it automatically results in a great job. On contrary those who aren't willing to put in the extra effort to study 3-5 years after high school, shouldn't have such high expectations. I'm not saying that they are dumb or anything, because they have competencies others may lack. It is great to hire upon knowledge which can, because I personally also prefer to study at home, instead of having to only prepare for exams and study unnecessary things. However the people you meet, will influence you much more in many cases than the actual curriculum.
I do understand that many hate high school, because they learn a lot of things that are apparently useless, however they must acknowledge the fact that there are many things that one needs to known in order to have a base of knowledge. I mean, I do understand teachers are terrible and schools vary greatly, but at the end of the day knowing about Homer and Delacroix and the basics of calculus are equally as important and of use to everyone, even if they don't use it on a daily basis.
I do agree that reforms should be taken, but many should finally acknowledge that college and the debt attached to it isn't meant for everyone, if they want to/can settle for less, or simply don't have the capabilities. Not everyone should expect to be paid like a Harvard or MIT graduate simply, because they don't have the willingness to study, the discipline etc. to study so much. And financials although can be an issue, I do think that those who are truly dedicated can risk taking the loan or can apply for some sort of funding or scholarship.
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Yes, I fully agree on most points. I do think that a polihistor approach is more useful until someone gets into their specific field. I think it may be more than enough to specialize in your late 20s, which is usually already at a job.
Unfortunately many don't understand, that for example what a huge part role for example the knowledge of philosophy is. Knowing Platon won't necessarily be of importance specifically, however reading his works, will hopefully influence you and will have a huge impact. It can change one's perception of the world, which is crucial in the case of leaders. In addition it may be common ground at a networking event with a CEO of a firm, where you may end up working.
I hate quotes, but Oscar Wilde is right, when he said: 'You can never be overdressed or overeducated'.
Constructing your own curriculum is great and I do have courses which I hate and find useless, but to some extent as a freshman one may not know anything about his or her field, thus it isn't such a bad idea for someone with some (unfortunately usually very little) knowledge about the selected field. So it's a risk and I can see many people and companies complaining about the fact that students screwed up their courses and now don't know things they need to in the profession.
MOst high school kids, may end up taking only gym classes, that wouldn't lead to too much....I think that's where extra classes can come in handy.
E. Delacroix painted this btw (I think you may recognize it):
View media item 533383
Unfortunately many don't understand, that for example what a huge part role for example the knowledge of philosophy is. Knowing Platon won't necessarily be of importance specifically, however reading his works, will hopefully influence you and will have a huge impact. It can change one's perception of the world, which is crucial in the case of leaders. In addition it may be common ground at a networking event with a CEO of a firm, where you may end up working.
I hate quotes, but Oscar Wilde is right, when he said: 'You can never be overdressed or overeducated'.
Constructing your own curriculum is great and I do have courses which I hate and find useless, but to some extent as a freshman one may not know anything about his or her field, thus it isn't such a bad idea for someone with some (unfortunately usually very little) knowledge about the selected field. So it's a risk and I can see many people and companies complaining about the fact that students screwed up their courses and now don't know things they need to in the profession.
MOst high school kids, may end up taking only gym classes, that wouldn't lead to too much....I think that's where extra classes can come in handy.
E. Delacroix painted this btw (I think you may recognize it):
View media item 533383
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agreed.
The reason I think that it is very hard to specialize during college or even university is due to the wide range of tasks later on. I mean regardless of the advisor in college, whom I think like mentioned should be much more active in selecting courses and advising, there aren't enough courses to be tailored to everyone's needs. For example a business major will use so different things if she/he becomes an investment banker, a regional director of a fortune 500 or a trade commissioner. Whilst it can be a great fundament, there is nowhere enough capacity to suit everyone. That is why specialization is so difficult in my opinion and can't be managed, unless timeframes would be extended/modified to some extent.
Fundamentals can't be finished by middle school simply, because kids aren't mature enough. They may be able to learn basics of math, but it just doesn't make sense for them to read Dostoyevsky or try to understand John Cage or Rothko, because only 1% of them will understand these geniuses and they won't be able to enjoy it, it'll make them hate art for example.
The reason I think that it is very hard to specialize during college or even university is due to the wide range of tasks later on. I mean regardless of the advisor in college, whom I think like mentioned should be much more active in selecting courses and advising, there aren't enough courses to be tailored to everyone's needs. For example a business major will use so different things if she/he becomes an investment banker, a regional director of a fortune 500 or a trade commissioner. Whilst it can be a great fundament, there is nowhere enough capacity to suit everyone. That is why specialization is so difficult in my opinion and can't be managed, unless timeframes would be extended/modified to some extent.
Fundamentals can't be finished by middle school simply, because kids aren't mature enough. They may be able to learn basics of math, but it just doesn't make sense for them to read Dostoyevsky or try to understand John Cage or Rothko, because only 1% of them will understand these geniuses and they won't be able to enjoy it, it'll make them hate art for example.
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[h2]Secondary[color= rgb(85, 85, 85)][[/color]edit source | editbeta[color= rgb(85, 85, 85)]][/color][/h2]
At the end of primary school (or at the beginning of secondary school), pupils are separated according to their capacities and career-intentions in several (often three) sections. Students who aspire to an academic career enter high schools (named "Gymnasium" or "Kantonsschule") to be prepared for further studies and the matura (normally obtained after 12 or 13 years of school at the age of 18/19) Students intending to pursue a trade or vocation complete only three additional years before entering Vocational Educations which are regulated by federal law and are based on a cooperation of private business offering educational job-positions and public schools offering obligatory school-lessons complementary to the on the job-education. This so-called "dual system" splitting academic and vocational training has its continuation in the higher education system. While the academic training leads to the matura and free admission to Universities, successfully completed vocational education give access to third level of practical education, the Fachhochschule. In the science literacy assessment of PISA, 15-year-old students in Switzerland had the 16th highest average score of 57 countries.
In the lower second level there are several different teaching and school models that may exist. Some cantons define a specific model, while others allow the individual municipalities to determine which model to follow.
[h3]Separated model[color= rgb(85, 85, 85)][[/color]edit source | editbeta[color= rgb(85, 85, 85)]][/color][/h3]
Pupils are allocated to institutionally separate school types, according to their performance levels. The structure is based on the principle of equal capacities among pupils. Generally, each school type has its own adapted curricula, teaching material, teachers and, in some cases, its own range of subjects. In general, there are 2 to 3 school types (4 in a minority of cantons), the names of which vary. In the structure with 2 school types, a distinction is made between the performance-based group at basic level (with the least demanding requirements), and the performance-based group at advanced level. In the structure with 3 school types, there is a performance-based group at basic level, a performance-based group at intermediate level and a performance-based group at advanced level. The requirements of the performance-based group at advanced level are the most demanding and this school type generally prepares pupils for transfer to the matura schools.[sup][2][/sup]
At the end of primary school (or at the beginning of secondary school), pupils are separated according to their capacities and career-intentions in several (often three) sections. Students who aspire to an academic career enter high schools (named "Gymnasium" or "Kantonsschule") to be prepared for further studies and the matura (normally obtained after 12 or 13 years of school at the age of 18/19) Students intending to pursue a trade or vocation complete only three additional years before entering Vocational Educations which are regulated by federal law and are based on a cooperation of private business offering educational job-positions and public schools offering obligatory school-lessons complementary to the on the job-education. This so-called "dual system" splitting academic and vocational training has its continuation in the higher education system. While the academic training leads to the matura and free admission to Universities, successfully completed vocational education give access to third level of practical education, the Fachhochschule. In the science literacy assessment of PISA, 15-year-old students in Switzerland had the 16th highest average score of 57 countries.
In the lower second level there are several different teaching and school models that may exist. Some cantons define a specific model, while others allow the individual municipalities to determine which model to follow.
[h3]Separated model[color= rgb(85, 85, 85)][[/color]edit source | editbeta[color= rgb(85, 85, 85)]][/color][/h3]
Pupils are allocated to institutionally separate school types, according to their performance levels. The structure is based on the principle of equal capacities among pupils. Generally, each school type has its own adapted curricula, teaching material, teachers and, in some cases, its own range of subjects. In general, there are 2 to 3 school types (4 in a minority of cantons), the names of which vary. In the structure with 2 school types, a distinction is made between the performance-based group at basic level (with the least demanding requirements), and the performance-based group at advanced level. In the structure with 3 school types, there is a performance-based group at basic level, a performance-based group at intermediate level and a performance-based group at advanced level. The requirements of the performance-based group at advanced level are the most demanding and this school type generally prepares pupils for transfer to the matura schools.[sup][2][/sup]
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Also this guy has given more than half his wealth to charity last time I checked. So if he kept donating at the same rate since then you arent even factoring the 33 billion he has given away. 
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true. and on that note, let's hope Bill Gates and those in charge will come up with something good.
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I started the thread, I'm a junior.