If Peyton and Gabbert traded teams, how different would the result of their matchup be?

assyrianplaya said:
Prolly have three rings as well... brady wasn't exactly the brady he is now at that time. Plus he is a cali kid, same with rodgers... If they can get used to playing in the snow i dont see why he wouldnt. Tom might not have one in indy....

I forgot that about spygate even .... manning knowing what your defense was going to do? :x:smh: Boy would that be bad, no matter who he is throwing to.
Click to expand...

Can someone please fill me in on SpyGate. I was at college during that time and barely had time to pay attention to football.

I know the Pats were caught with allegedly taping Jets hand signals. And heard something about them videotaping the Rams before the Superbowl.

If that is the case, why haven't the Pats been reprimanded for such things in a form other than just a fine? That's on the higher levels of cheating IMO, basically having the other team's plays and formations.
 
ConcordFlightXI said:
assyrianplaya said:
Prolly have three rings as well... brady wasn't exactly the brady he is now at that time. Plus he is a cali kid, same with rodgers... If they can get used to playing in the snow i dont see why he wouldnt. Tom might not have one in indy....

I forgot that about spygate even .... manning knowing what your defense was going to do? :x:smh: Boy would that be bad, no matter who he is throwing to.
Click to expand...

Can someone please fill me in on SpyGate. I was at college during that time and barely had time to pay attention to football.

I know the Pats were caught with allegedly taping Jets hand signals. And heard something about them videotaping the Rams before the Superbowl.

If that is the case, why haven't the Pats been reprimanded for such things in a form other than just a fine? That's on the higher levels of cheating IMO, basically having the other team's plays and formations.
Click to expand...

you're going to get biased views from both sides on the subject on this board. here's my version.

videotaping is allowed and done by most teams even today. however it has to be done from an enclosed box (press box or something along those lines, maybe where the OC or DC sits). the pats did it from an endzone angle out in the open. that's what made it illegal. this was after a memo went out leaguewide saying not to do it from anywhere outside of that enclosed box.

the taping of the rams walkthrough was alleged but never proven. and the accusation or story was withdrawn after.

and the pats lost a first round draft pick in addition to the maximum fine allowable.

to add, one of the bigger issues with it is that the tapes were destroyed. people are pissed about that and question the league on how the handled this situation.
 
Last edited:
:lol:

i do need to read that book though. interested to see what is just theory in his book and what is actually documented and proven.
 
Last edited:
DSA, he lists sources for damn near all of his material. That's one reason why I can actually take the book seriously. Parts of it are questionable, but there's other stuff in there that makes you go "huh... well..."

My favorite section of the book is when they discuss the offensive and defensive coordinator positions. For years, they "blew up" and were know as "Bill's disciples, offensive/defensive geniuses, etc" ... then they leave and do jack ****. :lol: The Pats also went 14-2 w/o an offensive/defensive coordinator in 2010. :nerd: Just Mr. Ernie Adams up in the booth. :nerd:

There is either some crafty **** going on behind the scenes, or Bill B. is literally the greatest coach in the history of sports. :lol:
 
god dammit, i just typed a wall of text that CP would be proud of and then hit the ******g back button or something. i've got meetings up the *** today at work, but i'll leave this at, i just need to read the book. he can source all he wants...but he doesn't know what's on the tapes. he just doesn't. he hasn't seen them. he wasn't a part of the "system" that he talks about. but i'll read it and i'll read it with an open mind.
 
DeadsetAce said:
god dammit, i just typed a wall of text that CP would be proud of and then hit the ******g back button or something. i've got meetings up the *** today at work, but i'll leave this at, i just need to read the book. he can source all he wants...but he doesn't know what's on the tapes. he just doesn't. he hasn't seen them. he wasn't a part of the "system" that he talks about. but i'll read it and i'll read it with an open mind.
Click to expand...

They destroyed the evidence....is that not enought? it was clearly damaging enough that it needed to be destroyed.
 
assyrianplaya said:
DeadsetAce said:
god dammit, i just typed a wall of text that CP would be proud of and then hit the ******g back button or something. i've got meetings up the *** today at work, but i'll leave this at, i just need to read the book. he can source all he wants...but he doesn't know what's on the tapes. he just doesn't. he hasn't seen them. he wasn't a part of the "system" that he talks about. but i'll read it and i'll read it with an open mind.
Click to expand...

They destroyed the evidence....is that not enought? it was clearly damaging enough that it needed to be destroyed.
Click to expand...

that's what i was talking about earlier. it sucks how they handled this whole thing. but without seeing them, we're just assuming exactly what was on there. and if we're going to start making assumptions, when people (people who coached or played) come out and say the pats weren't the only team doing it, then we should use those assumptions as well.

i do want to read the book chester recommended though. i want to read about what type of advantage taping from one location gave versus taping from another. as well as how the pats used it differently than other teams.
 
Cedric Ceballos said:
Brady won't get the choke label because winning 3 Super Bowls and having consistent playoff success gives him a pass from some criticism whereas Manning at this point is subject to more scrutiny because he's had a track record for not doing as well in the playoffs.

It don't matter the sport, some fresh players will get a label of choking in the clutch and some will overcome it, lebron comes to mind in that sense. Some people will still have blind hate but he's shut his critics up.

Im reading some of your other stuff. You seem like a stats guy. Stats only tell part the story. On paper without looking at the box scores wilt chamberlain owned bill russell. But realistically Russell constantly got the better of wilt. Brady/Manning isn't nearly as one sided but stats only tell part the story in that argument.

Going into that 04 game, most people actually picked Indy to win. That was seen as "Peyton's getting over the hump" game. They killed denver the week before and New England kinda cooled off late that season losing to a terrible dolphins team on Monday night costing them the 1 seed. Read articles from back then and alot of people picked Indy to win that game.

Not only Peyton benifited from those rules changes obviously but his team is the one who made complaints to get the rules changed because of how physical that same team played them in 03, they get a rematch with rules to their favor in get blown out. That game stands out.

If it will make you happy. Brady, Brees, Rodgers etc have wet the bed in playoff games as well. None of them have nearly as many home losses and losses to teams they were expected to beat as Peyton.

Peyton 1 and done 8 times in 12 playoff appearances
Brady 1 and done twice in 10 playoff appearances.
Brees 1 and done twice in 5 appearances.
Rodgers 1 and done twice in 4 appearances.

I just have one question for you. Please answer it.

If the broncos go 1 and done again this season in the playoffs. Peyton has an average game but nothing like how he plays in the regular season. He doesn't play terrible but at the same time comes up short when needed to make the plays to get his team the win. If this happens are you going to make excuses for him? Or are you going to acknowledge that the playoff track record talk is warranted.

I've gone on record to say if he wins another title, it shuts the choker argument up for good. However if he doesn't get the job done again in January are you going to make excuses for him? Please respond.
Click to expand...

Brady was not the Brady he is now. Much more of a game manager. His defenses were the stars of that run, this is well known.

Your stance on Wilt is so wrong its laughable, wilt was the lone alpha playing against 6 hof'ers on that boston squad. Had Russel never won the titles he did (and he gets a great amount of credit for those wins) its not even a comparison. Wouldn't you have loved to see what wilt could do with that squad?


Peyton dominated this league BEFORE and after the rules changes. The rule change is a non factor in discussing his career. Everyone goes goo goo gaga over peytons teams talent....they couldn't get open so he complained and the rules changed.... but these are the same guys that are so elite, right? They lost because the team is better... thats it. dont make it something it isn't. his play would've made it a throttling if the roles were revered.... Brady had a subpar game that day.

What does the one and done matter? i dont get it? Do you know how many times peyton manning has had a 100 yard rusher in the playoffs? 3.... all those games, and 3 100 yard rushers. what happened the year they ran the ball well in the playoffs? Superbowl. But yeah... Peyton sure has wet the bed in those games. :smh:

So they lose and he automatically is a choker? There must be context. If he throws 3 picks and they lose? sure. otherwise its ridiculous to blame it all on Manning.
 
shatterkneesinc said:
calling tom brady a game manager...wow
Click to expand...

He was a first time starter his first ring.... Was he even half the player he is now? Honestly? you tell me....

Brady is LIGHTYEARS the better player now, it is not close.

Those teams ran the ball, minimized mistakes, and played great physical and intimidating defense. That was their recipe for success.
 
Last edited:
He was a game manager at the start of his career and there's NOTHING wrong with that. He did what he needed to do to win, didn't make mistakes, and came up big when it mattered. Had that clutch gene from the second he put on a Patriots uniform. Tom didn't need to be flashy to get it done, just needed to play clean football and it won him three rings.

Watching Tom evolve his game from then-to-now has been incredible. He's refined and improved his game in every way possible. :smokin
 
Chester McFloppy said:
He was a game manager at the start of his career and there's NOTHING wrong with that. He did what he needed to do to win, didn't make mistakes, and came up big when it mattered. Had that clutch gene from the second he put on a Patriots uniform. Tom didn't need to be flashy to get it done, just needed to play clean football and it won him three rings.

Watching Tom evolve his game from then-to-now has been incredible. He's refined and improved his game in every way possible. :smokin
Click to expand...

I dead serious think his career is one of the greatest sports stories ever. From Drew Henson to Now... it literally makes you :wow: every time you think about it.
 
assyrianplaya said:
 
Chester McFloppy said:
He was a game manager at the start of his career and there's NOTHING wrong with that. He did what he needed to do to win, didn't make mistakes, and came up big when it mattered. Had that clutch gene from the second he put on a Patriots uniform. Tom didn't need to be flashy to get it done, just needed to play clean football and it won him three rings.

Watching Tom evolve his game from then-to-now has been incredible. He's refined and improved his game in every way possible.
smokin.gif
Click to expand...
I dead serious think his career is one of the greatest sports stories ever. From Drew Henson to Now... it literally makes you
eek.gif
every time you think about it.
Click to expand...
yep......thats why I stan so hard for my boy 
nthat.gif
 
People see the term 'game manager' and think Trent Dilfer. I blame ESPN and social media for turning it into something it's not.

Would you rather have a flashy, fun QB, or a guy who keeps it level, manages the game, and maintains his composure?

In 2001, Tom Brady threw one TD in that SB run. One. He threw for 312 yards, 115 yards, and 145 yards. Patriots won the Super Bowl.

Since then, his numbers have only gone up. He has refined and evolved his game and turned into the QB we see today.

I really don't see what the problem is.
 
Chester McFloppy said:
People see the term 'game manager' and think Trent Dilfer. I blame ESPN and social media for turning it into something it's not.

Would you rather have a flashy, fun QB, or a guy who keeps it level, manages the game, and maintains his composure?

In 2001, Tom Brady threw one TD in that SB run. One. He threw for 312 yards, 115 yards, and 145 yards. Patriots won the Super Bowl.

Since then, his numbers have only gone up. He has refined and evolved his game and turned into the QB we see today.

I really don't see what the problem is.
Click to expand...

As much as I enjoy watching Vick play for my Eagles, I think he's never bringing us to the promised land. I have come to terms with it. The Eagles need a real, pocket QB. Even though it was McNabb who brought in my attention to this game of football, a traditional QB is what's needed to have a Dynasty.

Word to the Brady-god.
 
Chester McFloppy said:
People see the term 'game manager' and think Trent Dilfer. I blame ESPN and social media for turning it into something it's not.

Would you rather have a flashy, fun QB, or a guy who keeps it level, manages the game, and maintains his composure?
Click to expand...

Love this, because it's absolutely true. And what Tom has become and then the comparison to some of these "game managers" to the elite is ridiculous. They're great for a reason.

Fact is...When guys like Cassel, Schaub, Ryan, Smith have the look of an ultra-conservative, yet uber-efficient quarterback, they're team is winning games. It's just that their inconsistencies can completely derail a team if they don't do it over the long haul. You can win games with all of those guys and with how they played at their peak, which was more of the game manager mold.
 
Last edited:
It's incredible how Brady went from where he was to where he is now. 6th round back up to one of the best ever is crazy.


dmxfury said:
Except against Balt in the playoffs or NY in the SB...(shrugs)
Click to expand...

This too. Too many people act like the Pats are untouchable in the post season. Ravens stomped 'em twice. The Giants put the fear of god in Brady. They got knocked off by the Jets once. Peyton has definitely had his failures, way too many one and dones and home loses. He shoulda got more than 1 ring in Indy but those Colts defenses were not that good most of the time. Brady and The Pats haven't won since the days of Harrison, McGinest and Seymour. Since then they've been getting beat by more physical teams.
 
assyrianplaya said:
Brady was not the Brady he is now. Much more of a game manager. His defenses were the stars of that run, this is well known.

Your stance on Wilt is so wrong its laughable, wilt was the lone alpha playing against 6 hof'ers on that boston squad. Had Russel never won the titles he did (and he gets a great amount of credit for those wins) its not even a comparison. Wouldn't you have loved to see what wilt could do with that squad?


Peyton dominated this league BEFORE and after the rules changes. The rule change is a non factor in discussing his career. Everyone goes goo goo gaga over peytons teams talent....they couldn't get open so he complained and the rules changed.... but these are the same guys that are so elite, right? They lost because the team is better... thats it. dont make it something it isn't. his play would've made it a throttling if the roles were revered.... Brady had a subpar game that day.

What does the one and done matter? i dont get it? Do you know how many times peyton manning has had a 100 yard rusher in the playoffs? 3.... all those games, and 3 100 yard rushers. what happened the year they ran the ball well in the playoffs? Superbowl. But yeah... Peyton sure has wet the bed in those games.
mean.gif


So they lose and he automatically is a choker? There must be context. If he throws 3 picks and they lose? sure. otherwise its ridiculous to blame it all on Manning.
Click to expand...
i wouldn't go as far to say game manager.    super bowl 36 maybe, but for a 2nd year qb to drive his team into field goal range to win that game isn't dilfer esque to me.    he wasn't the brady he was now in 03,04 but he was a very good qb at the time.  those teams had a good defense but brady but up solid numbers.

regarding wilt/russell.     wilt had some deep teams in the late 60's and early 70's where he was good but not as good as he once was.  you would think he would've won more then 2 titles.  titles aren't everything but those laker teams with him, west, and baylor could've/should've won another one.

wouldn''t go as far to say he dominated the league during that time unless were both watching a different game. was he very good and one of the best qbs in the league? yes,  i wouldn't say he make the dominant alpha elite best of all time type qb until around 03 though.     he never complained to get the rules changed, if i recall it was the gm and owner.  still they had talent at the receiver and tight end positions and lets not forget edge was very good running back. 

regarding the choking part, would i go as far to say he choked and wet the bed in all those games?   no because that's a reach.   but 05 against the steelers,   07 against the chargers (probably would've lost to new england in the afc title game that year) 08 when brady missed the season and the colts ended the season on a 9 game win streak, and this past season i can say they should've done more then what they did do in the playoffs. im pretty sure you can acknowledge that.  in those games he didn't play like the peyton we expected to see, especially in that steelers game.

if they lose in the playoffs at home to a team they have no business losing to and he puts up 300 yards with a few touchdown passes that's not on him and i'll defend him if people try and pin that on him.    if he has an average game that's not similar to the peyton we see around this time of the season and he has trouble converting key 3rd down plays and comes up short in crucial situations then yes in my eyes he choked. it's a team game but if they dominate this season only to look average in the playoffs again alot of that falls on him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

The ultimate sneaker enthusiast community.

NikeTalk was created as a way of giving back to both the sneaker enthusiast community and to the greater global community of which we are all a part.

NikeTalk is NOT affiliated with Nike Inc. in any way, shape, or form. All opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of Nike, Inc.

© 1999-2024 NikeTalk.com

Share this page

Back
Top Bottom