2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[nooera]

Do Knick fans really like Carmelo ?

He was amazing last night, but what's it even mean? The Knicks gave up so much young talent to get where they are right now; which is absolutely nowhere Brighter days are NOT on the horizon. Theyre going to be irrelevant for the next decade, all to have had ONE year where they contended with Carmelo (even though they had no shot). Its pathetic.

But he's the most dynamic scorer in the L,
though.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Knicks have up Gallo whose had his knees torn up since the trade. Wilson is a role player that would've helped. That's about it. I don't mind the trade as much now.

The smart Knicks fans root for Melo. He's the best player we've had since Ewing and he gives us our best chance at winning a ring.

 

[100027]

Smart Knick fans know that trade was a disaster for the franchise.

1.  They gave up a team full of, at the very least, tradeable young assets

2.  They did it for a guy they could have gotten WHILE KEEPING ALL THOSE assets a few months later

3.  It put them in a position where they had to waste their amnesty on Billups

4.  Everything they gave up for Melo, who they could have gotten for free, they could have packaged in a trade attempt for a star later, whether CP3, Deron Williams, lottery picks, etc.

5.  They did it all for a guy who will never sniff a championship as the best player on a team.

But dumb Knicks fans have always liked iso-ball.  Witness the "Stephon Marbury never got a chance here", "Why did D'antoni bench Nate", "Let's draft Jerryd Bayless"  crowd.

Most fans I know in NYC fall into the smart category though.

 

[markangelo]

 

[nooera]

Not even just in the Melo trade though. The Knicks dont have any picks. Camelo hasnt been extended yet. What if he walks ?

If i was a Knick fan I would hate Carmelo. Thats just me though. Young talent and a plethora of picks > having a "superstar" talent that gives you 0% chance of winning with LBJ and IND in your conference.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Smart Knick fans know that trade was a disaster for the franchise.

Please much more damage was done during the Zeke years. We gave up two guys with injury issues. And we would've traded the draft picks for someone else anyway. We put a first rounder in the Bargs deal for Pete's sake.

 

[100027]

Please much more damage was done during the Zeke years. We gave up two guys with injury issues. And we would've traded the draft picks for someone else anyway. We put a first rounder in the Bargs deal for Pete's sake.

Giving away depth and flexibility when you don't need to, as well as draft picks, is what has this team mired in no man's land for the forseeable future.

I mean your argument is basically "our management is so dumb anyway that young players and picks aren't valuable."

Which is also their mindset.

 

[americangenius]

the nfl has been overrated.... nba>nfl but nobody wants to admit it

I always thought so but the reason NFL fans are more hardcore is because NBA has way too many games. Most of the season is straight fluff, and things would be way more intense if every playoff game was elimination. Imagine if finals was just one match to decide it all? So much better than watching a dominant team blowout a weaker team 4 straight times. At least with NFL anything can happen which means playoffs are always a toss up.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

If it wasn't for Melo it would've been done for someone else (probably Rudy Gay honestly). Dolan needed that big name player.

 

[100027]

If it wasn't for Melo it would've been done for someone else (probably Rudy Gay honestly). Dolan needed that big name player.

Ugh that wouldn't have shocked me.  Or Joe Johnson.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

I'd for sure want to see Anthony leave town and just rebuild. Amare getting injured really derailed their chances. Anthony's style of play is so hard to watch. At this point I have my doubts about his ability to elevate a team. He needed Amare to help him out. If Anthony were to stay, that payroll and roster looks just terrible, along with no draft picks.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Put Melo on the Bulls n he wins a ring. He's only as good as his coach lets him play. And believe me he's matured tenfold since coming to NY. he actually tries to pass nowadays.

 

[100027]

 
I'd for sure want to see Anthony leave town and just rebuild. Amare getting injured really derailed their chances. Anthony's style of play is so hard to watch. At this point I have my doubts about his ability to elevate a team. He needed Amare to help him out. If Anthony were to stay, that payroll and roster looks just terrible, along with no draft picks.

The Knicks need to put themselves in a position to draft a franchise star.  Their strategy around Melo was to try and imitate the Dallas Mavericks championship team- strong defensive presence with Chandler, no secondary stars but lots of veterans.

I hate, hate, hate, hated that strategy.  Melo isn't in Dirk's wheelhouse, Woodson isn't anything close to Carlisle, and it took a historic playoff run for Dirk to be able to carry that team there.

 

[Hahahaha]

Carmelo trade was far from dumb. Dolan didn't want to risk not getting him after the season because there was a very good chance of him going somewhere else and signing a max. We didn't give up any worthy players, none of them are missed. Only thing that hurt was giving up picks but it was more than worth it.

Billups was a mistake by the GM. We used our amnesty on him because we decided to pick up his 14 mil option which was stupid as hell. Should have just let him walk.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Put Melo on the Bulls n he wins a ring. He's only as good as his coach lets him play. And believe me he's matured tenfold since coming to NY. he actually tries to pass nowadays.

Melo tries to pass? Not saying his teammates are legit but you see the clear difference between Durant and Anthony. Both amazing scorers, but Durant gets his attempts within the flow of the offense, has been doing that since Texas. Anthony chooses to isolate a majority of the time, stagnates the offense and has been doing that his entire career regardless of who coached him. His ball stopping is just awful to watch.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Melo passes more now than he did when he first got here. It's starting to click with him. Melo can score within the flow if an offense (not as smoothly as KD but that ain't a knock Durant's a beast), but the Knicks offense has no flow and he's not too blame for that. That falls on Woodson, Felton's bum *** n JR's chucking.

 

[big van vader]

You need players like Melo to win a championship.  Period.  Otherwise the Knicks would just be Nuggets East.  A good team who will be "a scary match-up for anyone in the playoffs" but then never get over the hump.  Besides the 05 Pistons, no team in recent memory has been a championship team without some kind of star surrounded by great role players.

What the Knicks did wrong was trading for Melo and not waiting until he was a free agent.  Gallo, Chandler, Mosgov, and the picks would've been good complements for Melo.

 

[100027]

 
Melo tries to pass? Not saying his teammates are legit but you see the clear difference between Durant and Anthony. Both amazing scorers, but Durant gets his attempts within the flow of the offense, has been doing that since Texas. Anthony chooses to isolate a majority of the time, stagnates the offense and has been doing that his entire career regardless of who coached him. His ball stopping is just awful to watch.

100% correct.

Carmelo trade was far from dumb. Dolan didn't want to risk not getting him after the season because there was a very good chance of him going somewhere else and signing a max. We didn't give up any worthy players, none of them are missed. Only thing that hurt was giving up picks but it was more than worth it.

Billups was a mistake by the GM. We used our amnesty on him because we decided to pick up his 14 mil option which was stupid as hell. Should have just let him walk.

Couldn't disagree with you more.  This team has been starved for depth and assets since that trade.

And yes, Dolan was impatient and made a hasty move.  No shocker there.  

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Two more small forwards ain't the depth we need though. If anything my beef with the trade is you may have been able to use those guys for CP3 or another player a notch below.

 

[addict4sneakers]

every all star talent is a ball stopper in some sort of fashion. the difference between him and other superstars are shot selection and willingness to create for others.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

every all star talent is a ball stopper in some sort of fashion. the difference between him and other superstars are shot selection and willingness to create for others.

He takes too many quick shots 20 feet out with a defender on him. That I can't defend but he's cut back since the Pringles days.

 

[100027]

Two more small forwards ain't the depth we need though. If anything my beef with the trade is you may have been able to use those guys for CP3 or another player a notch below.

Could at least have been in the mix for Howard too.

I don't necessarily see Gallinari playing alongside Carmelo, but the Knicks could desperately use a PG at his level, for example (young, solid but sub-all star).  Chandler definitely would have had value on the current team.  They get stuck getting guys like Bargnani because they don't have any tradeable, flexible assets to make more significant moves.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

every all star talent is a ball stopper in some sort of fashion. the difference between him and other superstars are shot selection and willingness to create for others.

Nobody stops that ball to the degree of Anthony though. There is no flow at all everything just stalls. It happened in Denver too

 

[johnnyredstorm]

There's no flow when Melo's off the court either. That's a scheme problem.

 

[had pants]