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2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN - Page 4373  

post #131161 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinallyFamous View Post

no need for the clips jab there brah

Don't even care. I think its hilarious how annoyed Zyzz is by CFB. Since its how most of S&T feels about him.

Im not annoyed by him. I like to rustle his jimmies and its funny when he says something stupid about the Pistons or the city of Detroit like its supposed to offend me laugh.gif
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post #131162 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey Dont Play View Post

adioslance.gif
The fact that lance was given a tech after wade asked for it makes it more funny
post #131163 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzz View Post

Im not annoyed by him. I like to rustle his jimmies and its funny when he says something stupid about the Pistons or the city of Detroit like its supposed to offend me laugh.gif

Either way, troll on troll crime is funny.
" . . . what a long, strange trip its been . . . " The Grateful Dead, "Truckin'" (and a good summary of my life as an LA Clippers fan)
" . . . what a long, strange trip its been . . . " The Grateful Dead, "Truckin'" (and a good summary of my life as an LA Clippers fan)
post #131164 of 132616
Body is ready for these conference finals pimp.gif good matchups on both sides.. These delays between games tho mean.gif
post #131165 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzz View Post

Im not annoyed by him. I like to rustle his jimmies and its funny when he says something stupid about the Pistons or the city of Detroit like its supposed to offend me laugh.gif

Either way, troll on troll crime is funny.

he trolls more than me...
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post #131166 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by a-friend View Post

How is Presti cheap though?
I guarantee you there are only 4 or 5 teams with a higher salary per year than Thunder.

Nets
Heat
Lakers
Clippers(maybe) 
Bulls
Knicks

All HUGE market teams. I'm guessing here but I just know that KD got a near Max contract. Only gave up Max to LEAVE room. Westbrook signed the same way. Ibaka signed the same way. Where is this cheap talk coming from

They are actually 12th in the league, and cheap is when you let 4 mil dollars stop you from keeping a top 15 player in the league. The issue will come up again when it's time for Reggie Jackson to get paid.
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post #131167 of 132616
how is presti cheap? he can only spend what the owners are willing to spend
post #131168 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba MVP View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by a-friend View Post

How is Presti cheap though?
I guarantee you there are only 4 or 5 teams with a higher salary per year than Thunder.

Nets
Heat
Lakers
Clippers(maybe) 
Bulls
Knicks

All HUGE market teams. I'm guessing here but I just know that KD got a near Max contract. Only gave up Max to LEAVE room. Westbrook signed the same way. Ibaka signed the same way. Where is this cheap talk coming from

They are actually 12th in the league, and cheap is when you let 4 mil dollars stop you from keeping a top 15 player in the league. The issue will come up again when it's time for Reggie Jackson to get paid.

Heresay. All heresay. Harden would have left if we offered the same, or even more. He needed to be at the forefront. Of course this also is heresay and IMO

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

post #131169 of 132616
Can someone re-post the list if the 2014 FAs? Having trouble finding it. Thanks in advance.
" . . . what a long, strange trip its been . . . " The Grateful Dead, "Truckin'" (and a good summary of my life as an LA Clippers fan)
" . . . what a long, strange trip its been . . . " The Grateful Dead, "Truckin'" (and a good summary of my life as an LA Clippers fan)
post #131170 of 132616
Presti, Bennett, whoever. The OKC fans on here can atest to the front office being less than willing to go into the luxury tax on James Harden. Presti was the architect behind the Spurs who rarely went into the luxury tax to keep guys, he thought they could do the same in OKC by just plugging guys in and not keeping or paying the young guys (Jeff Green, James Harden).
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post #131171 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMan14 View Post

how is presti cheap? he can only spend what the owners are willing to spend

laugh.gif
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post #131172 of 132616
Originally Posted by BLASTERCOMBO View Post
Originally Posted by Homey Dont Play View Post

adioslance.gif
The fact that lance was given a tech after wade asked for it makes it more funny

Exactly.

 

Like he was laughing then decided "No, but for real, you're getting a T. Ref, REFFFF... get him."

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post #131173 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog1 View Post

Can someone re-post the list if the 2014 FAs? Having trouble finding it. Thanks in advance.

I posted it in the Cavs thread. smile.gif

Go join
It gets lonely in there
O-H-I-O

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post #131174 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinallyFamous View Post





I posted it in the Cavs thread. smile.gif

Go join
It gets lonely in there

I might do that.Cavs and Clippers actually have some stuff in common.
" . . . what a long, strange trip its been . . . " The Grateful Dead, "Truckin'" (and a good summary of my life as an LA Clippers fan)
" . . . what a long, strange trip its been . . . " The Grateful Dead, "Truckin'" (and a good summary of my life as an LA Clippers fan)
post #131175 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by a-friend View Post

Heresay. All heresay. Harden would have left if we offered the same, or even more. He needed to be at the forefront. Of course this also is heresay and IMO

How would he have left? He was still under contract and got traded. Didn't get that extension from the Rockets until after last season. Everything out of his mouth was that he wanted to stay in OKC.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
James Harden traded to Rockets
Updated: October 28, 2012, 1:34 PM ET
ESPN.com news services
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Unable to work out an extension with James Harden, the Oklahoma City Thunder traded the Sixth Man of the Year to the Houston Rockets on Saturday night, breaking up the young core of the Western Conference champions.

The Thunder acquired guards Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb, two first-round picks and a second-round pick in the surprising deal that was completed Saturday night. Oklahoma City also sent center Cole Aldrich and forwards Daequan Cook and Lazar Hayward to Houston.

More From ESPN.com
Oklahoma City's decision to trade James Harden shouldn't come as too big of a surprise, just look at Jeff Green, Brian Windhorst writes. Story

The trade of James Harden to the Rockets wasn't necessarily a bad move, but it does leave a lot of questions, John Hollinger writes. Story Insider

"I would love to Thank Oklahoma City for 3 amazing years!" Harden tweeted Sunday. "Teammates and Fans were thee best. The love will always be there. Thanks Again."
Wednesday's deadline to extend Harden or allow him to become a restricted free agent next July had been hanging over the Thunder from the moment they reported to training camp, but sources told ESPN.com's Marc Stein late Saturday the Rockets intend to sign the swingman to the max contract extension he was seeking before Wednesday's midnight deadline.

The Thunder offered Harden $55.5 million over four years -- $4.5 million less than the max deal Harden coveted and will get from the Rockets, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard.

"We wanted to sign James to an extension, but at the end of the day, these situations have to work for all those involved. Our ownership group again showed their commitment to the organization with several significant offers," Thunder general manager Sam Presti said in a statement.

"We were unable to reach a mutual agreement, and therefore executed a trade that capitalized on the opportunity to bring in a player of Kevin's caliber, a young talent like Jeremy and draft picks, which will be important to our organizational goal of a sustainable team."

The small-market Thunder had already signed Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka to long-term deals, and apparently realized Harden was going to want a bigger salary than they would offer.

Harden averaged 16.8 points and 3.7 assists last season, and joined Durant and Westbrook on the U.S. men's Olympic team. He struggled badly in Oklahoma City's loss to Miami in the NBA Finals, but the Thunder felt good about their chances of getting back there with another year of experience for their young stars, all 24 or younger.

The Thunder got back a good scorer in Martin, who has averaged 18.4 points in his eight NBA seasons, and a promising young player in Lamb, the No. 12 pick in the draft who helped Connecticut win the 2011 NCAA championship. He led Houston's summer league team in scoring with 20 points per game.

The Rockets rebuilt their roster in the offseason and hoped to land Dwight Howard. Houston traded or released just about every veteran except Martin, who was in the final year of his contract and due about $13 million this season.

Harden More Than Just OK-C
James Harden was a valuable piece of the puzzle for Oklahoma City. His impact on and off the court was seen mostly on offense, where he brought life to the Thunder and was huge from 3-point range per 48 minutes. Here's a look at when he was on and off the court:

Martin averaged 17.1 points and 2.8 assists last year, his eighth in the NBA and third in Houston. He missed the last 26 games last season with a shoulder injury, though he also developed a rift with Houston coach Kevin McHale late in the year.

"While I never like having to send out quality players like Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb, this trade gives us a chance to make an immediate impact on the future of our franchise moving forward," Rockets owner Leslie Alexander said.

"James Harden was part of Team USA's gold medal team at the London Olympics and is one of the most skilled shooting guards in the NBA."

New Rockets point guard Jeremy Lin also chimed in about the trade on Twitter.

"Really sad to see Kmart and JLamb go," Lin wrote. "...both class acts and great teammates. Welcome Harden, Cook, Aldrich and Hayward to Houston!!"

Houston collected draft picks while it was making a flurry of deals, part of a package to offer Orlando for Howard. The Rockets traded point guard Kyle Lowry to Toronto for a lottery-protected first-round pick, one of Oklahoma City's acquisitions on Saturday night.

The other first-round pick was acquired by Houston when it traded Jordan Hill to the Los Angeles Lakers last March. The second-round pick came to the Rockets in a deal that sent guard Courtney Lee to Boston.

Edited by Mamba MVP - 5/17/14 at 2:30pm
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post #131176 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba MVP View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by a-friend View Post

Heresay. All heresay. Harden would have left if we offered the same, or even more. He needed to be at the forefront. Of course this also is heresay and IMO

How would he have left? He was still under contract and got traded. Didn't get that extension from the Rockets until after last season. Everything out of his mouth was that he wanted to stay in OKC.

You know what I mean. If they didn't trade him they would have just lost him to Free Agency.

 

So what you are saying is he had no choice in the matter and they could have forced him to stay and sign for less, right?

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

post #131177 of 132616
Mark Jackson back working at ESPN pimp.gif
post #131178 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpmanFromDaBay View Post

Mark Jackson back working at ESPN pimp.gif

Charlotte is also going to be the Hornets again. Bobcats are dead

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

post #131179 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba MVP View Post

Presti, Bennett, whoever. The OKC fans on here can atest to the front office being less than willing to go into the luxury tax on James Harden. Presti was the architect behind the Spurs who rarely went into the luxury tax to keep guys, he thought they could do the same in OKC by just plugging guys in and not keeping or paying the young guys (Jeff Green, James Harden).

 

 

and he did that because of the owner wanting him to do that.

post #131180 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by a-friend View Post

You know what I mean. If they didn't trade him they would have just lost him to Free Agency.

So what you are saying is he had no choice in the matter and they could have forced him to stay and sign for less, right?

I'm saying if they would have offered him the max extension that he wanted (somewhere in the ball park of 4 years 60 million) that he wanted, he more than likely would have stayed. Those guys were a close knit group. Of course he had a choice, but they tried to lowball him after giving Ibaka a max deal, basically saying he wasn't as valuable.

I edited my previous post with the article from ESPN the day of the trade.
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post #131181 of 132616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmike23 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba MVP View Post

Presti, Bennett, whoever. The OKC fans on here can atest to the front office being less than willing to go into the luxury tax on James Harden. Presti was the architect behind the Spurs who rarely went into the luxury tax to keep guys, he thought they could do the same in OKC by just plugging guys in and not keeping or paying the young guys (Jeff Green, James Harden).

 

 

and he did that because of the owner wanting him to do that.

Exactly. If the man with the money said you can't spend it, what can you do. And I don't think this 4 million dollar number you mentioned is what it would have cost them in Luxury tax man. I may be wrong but not including the difference they would have had to pay Harden to "supposedly keep him" it would have cost them 13 million in taxes + the difference in what they were willing to pay, and what they would have had to pay him to compete with other offers ie Houston

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

post #131182 of 132616

I just think they valued Ibaka more, doesn't make them cheap. I personally wish they would have spent the dough. I think it cost them a Championship. They can't sign everyone to max contracts though. If they did they'd be the Nets/Lakers

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

post #131183 of 132616
I personally think Harden going ghost in the Finals made the OKC brass think he was expendable.

My bad for using Presti, Clay Bennett is the culprit:

Bennett's net worth is $400 million. Since he bought the Thunder (as the SuperSonics) in 2006, he has not paid one dollar of luxury tax.

I just find it interesting they overpaid Ibaka, yet tried to underpay Harden.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Bernucca: Clay Bennett’s skimping may cost him Kevin Durant, too
15 Comments
By Chris Bernucca
September 10, 2013 at 1:46 PM
Jerry WestKevin Durant is a great player. He deserves a great owner.

Durant may not know it yet, but he is becoming this generation’s Jerry West: a fantastic talent and class act whose career was marked by finishing second.

In 14 seasons, West twice finished second in scoring (also winning once). He never won an MVP award, finishing third once and second a record four times. And he lost the NBA Finals seven times before finally winning in his 13th season.

In six seasons, Durant has finished second in scoring once (last season, ending his three-year reign). He has never won an MVP award, finishing second three times already. And he lost in the NBA Finals in 2012, his only trip thus far.

In an era when owners held all the power, West played his entire career with the Los Angeles Lakers. In an era where superstars call the shots, Durant has played his entire career with the Oklahoma City Thunder.

And Durant figures to be in Oklahoma City a while. For one, he has three years and $57 million left on his contract. For another, he said so himself, just last week.

Speaking to fans during a Nike Tour in France, Durant was asked whether a different team was in his future.

“I like where I’m at right now,” he said. “I enjoy playing for OKC. As of today, I love it there, man. I want to be there. I love the fans, I love my team, I love everything about the city. I don’t have any plans to move.”

This is why Durant is a class act. He gave a fair answer to an unfair question. Not knowing what the future may hold, can anyone – let alone a superstar basketball player with a limited earnings window – really say they are sure they will be in the same city working for the same company three years from now? Note his use of the words “right now.”

Clay Bennett ThunderOne of the variables that could influence Durant is how much Thunder owner Clay Bennett is interested in not finishing second. And over the last couple of offseasons, that interest hasn’t exactly been prevalent.

Bennett’s net worth is $400 million. Since he bought the Thunder (as the SuperSonics) in 2006, he has not paid one dollar of luxury tax.

The Thunder certainly are not alone in that regard. In those same eight seasons, a dozen other teams also have paid no luxury tax. Those 12 teams have combined for just 36 playoff appearances in 96 opportunities, or 37.5 percent. And none of those postseason trips have resulted in a trip to the NBA Finals.

The Thunder bucked those odds when they reached the 2012 NBA Finals as a precocious group with loads of young talent and a very bright future. Perhaps too bright, because it seems to have obscured Bennett’s long-term vision.

Since reaching the NBA Finals, Bennett has maintained his red line stance on the luxury tax with diminishing returns. To wit:

Last summer, the Thunder could have created more flexibility beneath the tax threshold and increased their chances of retaining James Harden – clearly a top-10 player masquerading as a sixth man – by using the amnesty clause on center Kendrick Perkins, whose lack of usefulness was on full display in the NBA Finals. They chose not to, even though Perkins’ remaining contract would not count toward James Harden cropthe tax.
With extension decisions looming on both Harden and Serge Ibaka, the Thunder first signed Ibaka, whose ascent to top-10 status is highly unlikely and years away. Nevertheless, they overpaid him at $49 million over four years, more money than All-Star big men Al Horford and Joakim Noah received from their clubs.
Those decisions and Bennett’s refusal to pay tax forced the Thunder into one of the worst trades in NBA history when they sent Harden and spare parts to Houston for Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, a pair of first-round picks and a second-round pick. No one who watched the playoffs last season would say Martin was an adequate replacement for Harden. And Ibaka didn’t pick up the slack, either.
This summer, the Thunder again had the opportunity to use the amnesty provision on Perkins, whose contract got one year shorter as his play got even worse. But Bennett’s red line continued to include Kendrick Perkins“dead money” even if it did not count toward the tax.
Martin was a free agent and certainly wasn’t going to command the $11 million he made last season, given his advancing age and role reduction. Bennett’s unwillingness to use the amnesty provision and stance on the tax severely limited what the Thunder could give Martin, who signed for $28 million over four years with Minnesota — but said he would have taken less to stay in Oklahoma City. So ask yourself if you would rather have Martin at $6 million or Perkins at $8.3 million.
To save some face, the Thunder engineered a sign-and-trade with the Timberwolves and Milwaukee Bucks that netted neither a player nor draft pick but the rights to Szymon Szewczyk and a $7 million trade exception. That means the Thunder’s net in the Harden trade is now Lamb, rookie center Steven Adams (who probably isn’t going to play much because Perkins is still around), a first-round pick, a second-round pick, a Eurostash who probably will never play in the NBA and a trade exception that expires in less than a year and can only be used to take back a player who makes real money that counts toward the tax. Shrewd? Not.
Martin’s departure also means that in the last year, the role of first wing off the Thunder’s bench has gone from a top-10 player to Lamb, who has played 147 career minutes, including none that have ever mattered.
After signing No. 12 pick Adams to the standard 120 percent of the rookie salary scale, the Thunder offered No. 27 pick Andre Roberson just 80 percent of the rookie salary scale, the lowest amount allowed. Faced with becoming a free agent in a closing market, Roberson felt he had no choice but to take the offer.
The Thunder also expressed an interest in Mike Miller after he was waived by Miami via amnesty. As a 10-year veteran, Miller would command a minimum of $1.4 million from any team as a free agent. The Thunder could have easily claimed Miller with a bid of $2 million, which would have put them less than $1 million into tax territory, from which they could have escaped through a subsequent deal. Instead, they rolled the dice on trying to woo him with their “all for one, one for all” culture and lost him to conference rival Memphis.

When Miller signed with Memphis, a source said one of his reasons was he thought the Grizzlies were closer Kevin Durant cropto the championship than any of the teams pursuing him, including the Thunder. While Durant may disagree (and so do we, at least this season), that had to register somewhere in his thought process.

And Bennett’s chintz extends beyond the court as well.

After a devastating tornado blew through Oklahoma in May, Durant donated $1 million of his own money to the relief efforts. It wasn’t until Durant’s generosity became public that Bennett – whose net worth is at least four times that of Durant’s – ponied up on behalf of the Thunder. The lifelong resident of Oklahoma gave the same $1 million as his employee.

You can argue the merits of the Thunder’s financial decisions over the last two summers. Harden wanted to be a true franchise player, which wasn’t going to happen in Oklahoma City. Ibaka may be overpaid now but could be a relative bargain two years from now. No one knew the previously indestructible Russell Westbrook would go down with an injury. For all his shortcomings, Perkins can defend the low post, where Dwight Howard operates. Kevin Martin won’t be a $7 million player three years from now. And the youngsters won’t get better if they don’t play.

Yes, it’s easy to sit here and spend someone else’s money. Bennett’s team plays in the 44th-largest market in the country. Among NBA cities, only Memphis and New Orleans are smaller. But it was Bennett’s decision to move the franchise from Seattle, the 14th-largest market. So we’re not playing any violins.

And yes, Bennett owns the Thunder and can set the payroll threshold wherever he wants. However, it should be pointed out that according to Forbes, the team has an operating income of nearly $90 million (which constitutes a profit) over the last four available years. Again, no handkerchiefs are necessary.

And yes, Bennett is entitled to his firm belief that spending money and winning championships are mutually exclusive. But he should know that the last six NBA champions were taxpayers. That could be a coincidence. Or it could be a trend.

However, clearly a trend is Durant’s current status as second banana in the NBA’s pecking order behind LeBron James. There is no shame in that; Durant could just be the wrong guy at the wrong time, much the way West was to Bill Russell or Charles Barkley, Karl Malone and Patrick Ewing were to Michael Jordan.

Jay-ZBut you have to wonder if Durant will feel the same way about Oklahoma City three years from now if Bennett continues to ask players to make financial sacrifices and rake in revenue without raising payroll, depriving the Thunder and their loyal fan base of a championship. Because that’s not “all for one and one for all.”

That’s “all for me.”

When his current contract expires, Durant will be 27, still in his prime with nine years under his belt, represented by a new agent, Jay-Z. That’s nine years of virtually unmatched excellence on and off the court. Nine years of finishing second — or worse, depending on what is to come. Nine years of trying to fill the only void in his Hall of Fame resume.

There’s probably a great owner out there who would love to help him. Time, and money, will tell.
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post #131184 of 132616
Valuing Ibaka more than Harden(When you already have two young scorers) = / = being cheap when it comes time to resign a top 5 player in the entire league & a top 5 pg

The situations are not the same at all
post #131185 of 132616
Perkins should have caught the amnesty hammer
post #131186 of 132616
Oh I have no doubt he'll pay whatever to TRY and keep KD and Russ when the time comes, it's just that his penny pinching may have cost them title(s) and the opportunity to keep these guys when that time comes. If he pays Reggie when the time comes, I'll be proven wrong, but until then. Clay is a cheapskate. He did it with Jeff Green, did it with Harden, Reggie is up to bat next.
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post #131187 of 132616

I can't really blame him on the Luxury Tax. Thats just free money that the NBA takes just because they can. Teams ought to be able to pay any amount to any player just like the MLB. It wouldn't make much of a difference. You'd still have the same few teams on top year in and year out, just the NBA wouldn't get the Lord knows how many millions they steal from the owners each year with a so called Luxury Tax. That's worse than paying Insurance in my book, and I think Insurance is the Devil

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

"I apologize, turns out it was not the Thunder's year.  I wish they hadn't played the games"

 

 

post #131188 of 132616
It makes no sense for mediocre to bad teams to go into that tax bill well unless your the Knicks historically or the Nets this year, but when you are a bonafide championship contender year in and out, you're really going to let a few mil which to him is nothing stop you from putting the best possible product on the floor and getting a title. The Heat, Lakers, Dallas, Celtics, etc all have done it and it's worked.
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DS KD VI WTKD Size 14...
TEAM LAKERS | FLORIDA GATORS | LA RAMS
PSN: B1ackMambaK1ng | XBL: Gator Boy 24
DS KD VI Christmas Size 14 $120 shipped for Sale
DS LeBron 11 2K14 Size 15 $300 shipped for Sale
DS KD VI WTKD Size 14...
post #131189 of 132616
MIAMI HEAT
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IN RILEY WE TRUST
MIAMI HEAT
2006. 2012. 2013
IN RILEY WE TRUST
post #131190 of 132616
hate when theres no games on. i love the first round laugh.gif

im posting less and getting bored with no games.

this season sucked since i wasnt as interested during the regular season sick.gif

at least i hope everyone is healthy next season and pistons make some moves this summer to make the season that much better.
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