2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[Vincent Van Goat]

I believe both wall and Irving will be leading teams to much better records in coming seasons, but to beat up one or the other is just silly.

Further, how are you going to say wall makes his teammates so much better than Irving does when both the wizards and cavs have crap records?

 

[dt43]

Irving has a much higher usage% than Lillard, his assists are low for someone who has the ball as much as he does. He was ranked statistically as one of the top 10 ballhogs in the NBA (check the NBA advanced stats thread).

You can blame it on the Cavs system/lack of talent but it is what it is. Lebron was a SF and he averaged more assists than Kyrie at a younger age, with equally bad teammates. Either you have court vision or you don't.

Cmon your comparing kyrie to lebron? F*** advanced stats

Kyrie is a SCORER, you need buckets hit up kyrie, you need someone to take over a game hit up kyrie, i have yet seen john wall or lillard take over a game like kyrie did against okc or even show out against a top 5 pg

Stephon Marbury was a scorer. Steve Francis was a scorer. If Kyrie is such a great scorer then Cleveland needs to move him to SG and draft Marcus Smart. When a player is assigned to play the position of point guard, they need to learn how to pass the ball and create for others.


You're basing your assessment on who 'shows out' more, rather than who consistently contributes more to team success...

Living in cleveland I have this Kyrie / Wall debate all the time. IMO kyrie only does one thing better than wall and that's shoot (and this year he's not even really doing that better)

what has wall done in his career when going against one of the top pg's in the league?, westbrook had no answer for kyrie, & kyrie just dropped 41 on wall 2 weeks ago

Kyrie didn't drop 41 on Wall.. halfway through the game Mike Brown put Jarrett Jack at the 1 and moved Kyrie off the ball, and with Wall no longer guarding him he was scoring most of his points coming off screens, defensive switches, etc. Which alludes to my point earlier that he's arguably better off the ball as a combo guard than as a primary ballhandler. When someone else handles the playmaking duties he can really shine as a scorer

 

[black migo]

Dudes acting like cleveland dont got locker room issues & acting like its all kyries fault, yeah some games he tries to do too much but hes just trying to pick up the slack of his teammates, wall is ballin but hes doing it against bum *** pg's, let me see wall ball against westbrook, parker,cp3, then there is no argument who is better

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

I believe both wall and Irving will be leading teams to much better records in coming seasons, but to beat up one or the other is just silly.

Further, how are you going to say wall makes his teammates so much better than Irving does when both the wizards and cavs have crap records?

Did you watch the Wizards last season without Wall? 8-9 is stellar compared to that 4-26 or something like that start they began the season on without Wall.

 

[black migo]

Stephon Marbury was a scorer. Steve Francis was a scorer. If Kyrie is such a great scorer then Cleveland needs to move him to SG and draft Marcus Smart. When a player is assigned to play the position of point guard, they need to learn how to pass the ball and create for others.


You're basing your assessment on who 'shows out' more, rather than who consistently contributes more to team success...

How much better is kyrie irving gonna make the bum *** cavs by passing the ball more?

 

[rck3sactown]

Stephon Marbury was a scorer. Steve Francis was a scorer. If Kyrie is such a great scorer then Cleveland needs to move him to SG and draft Marcus Smart. When a player is assigned to play the position of point guard, they need to learn how to pass the ball and create for others.


You're basing your assessment on who 'shows out' more, rather than who consistently contributes more to team success...

How much better is kyrie irving gonna make the bum *** cavs by passing the ball more?

 

[victor page]

I don't even know why ya'll really engaging this Black Migo shenanigan. 

 

[teamcharisma69]

I've seen a couple of games this season that Wall has played in and I can definitely see the improvement even though he basically missed last season. He's starting to tap into that potential that scouts saw in him. He makes pretty good decisions on the fly and does not look as ball dominant as previous years, although he has been on a scoring tear as of late. Kyrie's good too, but he has struggled a bit to start the year off. (team meeting with mike brown/dion waiters claiming him and TT of playing buddy ball) He will probably get into a consistent groove as december rolls along. I have seen him run straight into triple teams though and get bailed out by the refs this year, hoping he just makes the pass to the open man on those plays (the assists just have not been there). (and for fantasy purposes yes, wall has looked impressive. high assists, 1.2 three pointers this month, and pretty decent fg % unlike week 1/2)

 

[dt43]

Stephon Marbury was a scorer. Steve Francis was a scorer. If Kyrie is such a great scorer then Cleveland needs to move him to SG and draft Marcus Smart. When a player is assigned to play the position of point guard, they need to learn how to pass the ball and create for others.


You're basing your assessment on who 'shows out' more, rather than who consistently contributes more to team success...

How much better is kyrie irving gonna make the bum *** cavs by passing the ball more?

You're right, the Cavs are so much better when Kyrie plays like Brandon Jennings

 

[goldmember]

Wall > Kyrie


This year.

 

[black migo]

I see, kyrie getting that westbrook treatment from a few seasons ago, he'll shut yall up soon

 

[sea manup]

IT always looks like a kid wearing his dad's shoes

 

[stopcappin]

I see, kyrie getting that westbrook treatment from a few seasons ago, he'll shut yall up soon

Would LOVE to see that. Doesn't change that Wall it better right now

 

[shoeking2101]

At Memphis, Rose had a TON of games where he scored in the single digits. Like 10+ games, more than a quarter of the season

Jus sayin.

The last thing I do is judge a player's ability to perform on the next level off of statistics. That's a terrible metric to gauge whether or not a player will be able to translate to the next level.

When I look at wiggins, I see someone who doesn't have a position. Too thin to play the four, and doesn't have the shooting nor creativity offensively to be an effective 3. I honestly don't see it. To me, from what I see in his game he looks more like a future rotation player than a franchise changer.

All of his buckets are struggle for the most part. He's no exhibiting any qualities thus far that suggest he'll be able to be a bonifide all star on the next level. It's not about how many points he scores, it's about how he scores them and almost all of his points come from putbacks, filling the lanes and getting layups, or the occasional easy basket.

 

[shoeking2101]

Man in all seriousness Wall is miles ahead of Irving when it comes to who's the better point guard. It seems that Wall is finally trying to put it all together. He does it all from the Point Guard position. He makes teammates better, defends, can score when needed, all at an All Star/Elite level. I honestly feel like Wall can be special from that position. As this season thus far and last season showed, his play can directly affect the culture of a team.

Kyrie is a great scorer at this point, but that's it. Neither have won much in the NBA, but it's blatantly obvious that what John Wall does well will translates better for a winning team than an inefficient scoring point guard. I love Kyrie, but it's becoming clear that his style of play looks good, but isn't necessarily something you would want to build your team around.

 

[larrydavid1]

 

At Memphis, Rose had a TON of games where he scored in the single digits. Like 10+ games, more than a quarter of the season

Jus sayin.

The last thing I do is judge a player's ability to perform on the next level off of statistics. That's a terrible metric to gauge whether or not a player will be able to translate to the next level.

When I look at wiggins, I see someone who doesn't have a position. Too thin to play the four, and doesn't have the shooting nor creativity offensively to be an effective 3. I honestly don't see it. To me, from what I see in his game he looks more like a future rotation player than a franchise changer.

All of his buckets are struggle for the most part. He's no exhibiting any qualities thus far that suggest he'll be able to be a bonifide all star on the next level. It's not about how many points he scores, it's about how he scores them and almost all of his points come from putbacks, filling the lanes and getting layups, or the occasional easy basket.

It's early in the season but off the little that I've seen from Wiggins I 100% feel you, Parker >>>> Wiggins....

My n_ Parker gets busy... has an array of moves to get buckets, is the #1 option for his team, and even though he's always a threat to score can affect the game on the boards as well as on the defensive end.

Hell give me Parker over that reach of a #1 pick A. Bennett's bum _ _ _ 

  Mike Brown deserves donkey of the year so far.

 

[mgrand15]

Wiggins is no doubt a 3 in the NBA. He'll be much better with NBA spacing and an improved jumper, his handles aren't that bad and he can really finish/draw fouls in traffic. He has a lot of work to do though. A LOT. Needs to figure out how to impact a game all the way through on offense, defense and the boards. He still has time.

Jabari on the other hand was underrated cause he was out of shape in HS (injuries + the media pressure made him buckle). Right now he's in decent shape and looks like a good athlete. That kid is ready RIGHT NOW. He could be a 1/2 option in the NBA if he were to step on an nba court. He's what Harrison Barnes was supposed to be coming out of HS. the real deal for sure. Going to be fun to see who pans out as a better prospect.

 

[mr marcus]

Wiggins gonna be like mkg....good hustle player but the franchise gonna regret taking his *** so high

Wish we took Barnes instead

Tired of these athletic but can't create and shoot sf being deemed can't miss products

 

[jjs07]

I don't even know why ya'll really engaging this Black Migo shenanigan. 

Him and CliffordSmith are one in the same, the one consolation you get with BM is that he doesn't post in large font/use exclamation points, outside of that dude doesn't have a clue and is wrong 95% of the time.

I was just about to say....

Wizards quietly 6-2 in their last 8.

 

[AEA18]

Put more NBA teams in Canada, put a team back in Van City and one in Montreal

Also Seattle needs a team again

Add STL to the list

Bring back the Spirit

 

[noblekane]

while were at it why dont we give EVERY city a **** team?

Cant wait until the Stockton Guns or Stockton Crime arrive...

 

[buc em]

I was just about to say....

Wizards quietly 6-2 in their last 8.

But they're 6-6 in their last 12



I think you know who I'd vote to be first on the contraction list.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Wiggins gonna be like mkg....good hustle player but the franchise gonna regret taking his *** so high

Wish we took Barnes instead

Tired of these athletic but can't create and shoot sf being deemed can't miss products

Barnes hasn't played well at all, he didn't play better than MKG in his rookie year, and he its questionable this year.


Harrison Barnes is becoming insanely overrated for basically like 6 good playoff games. :x

 

[big j 33]

And he has a terrible nickname

 

[buc em]

Barnes hasn't played well at all, he didn't play better than MKG in his rookie year, and he its questionable this year.


Harrison Barnes is becoming insanely overrated for basically like 6 good playoff games. :x

Did you see the game against OKC the other night? I don't know what kind of numbers you're expecting him to put up. He's the 5th option on the team behind Curry, Klay, Iggy and Lee.

If Barnes hasn't "played well at all" then how the **** are you in the College Basketball thread standing up for Wiggins? Making every excuse in the book for the most hyped prospect in a long time when it looks like all he's good for is dunking the ball right now.

I can already tell that if Wiggins continues to not play well when he gets to the pros we're going to hear for like his first three years "just give him time."