2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[awwsome]

Melo plays hero ball but the Knicks offense sucks in general, PG play/ball movement/schemes, all terrible

 

[carltonjunior]

every all star talent is a ball stopper in some sort of fashion. the difference between him and other superstars are shot selection and willingness to create for others.

Not every all star talent, superstar maybe. Even then not all superstars are ball stoppers. You can't not hold him responsible for killing his offense. Guys like KD, Steph and Paul George can drop 30 within their team's offense on good looks and keep their teammates involved. Melo can't. A lot of that does have to do with coaching and personnel too, but he did do it last year.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

There's no flow when Melo's off the court either. That's a scheme problem.

I will agree with you in the sense that Mike Woodson seems to be one of the worst offensive coaches. See Iso-Joe and Iso-Smith in Atlanta.

However Anthony still played the same way in Denver too. It's in his DNA to play like this. That's just how he operates. I'd like to see him go to a different situation with different teammates and different coaches because New York will be a graveyard for his career.

 

[big van vader]

 

every all star talent is a ball stopper in some sort of fashion. the difference between him and other superstars are shot selection and willingness to create for others.

Nobody stops that ball to the degree of Anthony though. There is no flow at all everything just stalls. It happened in Denver too

I've been a Sixers fan my whole life.  I can tell you with 100% certainty that the ball has been stopped to that degree and lead to success.

 

[you go boy]

i dont know if you guys are serious with the melo trade... sure they gave up a lot to get him but when you get a superstar thats the name of the game... and if you follow knicks games gallo and chandler werent all that great... sure they improved on denver and even brought them to the playoffs but when on the knicks they were so inconsistent and unreliable that i couldnt wait until they get traded...a lot of people say the knicks were better before melo but how is that? they were very mediocre when amare got there and didnt have a reliable second option... everyone was actually worried that once amare got hurt well there goes the season which ended up happening a few seasons after he became very injury prone....i dont regret the trade at all the only thing that kind of upsets me is the knicks "could have" waited until the season was over and just signed melo instead of trading for him and using gallo and chandler and everyone else they traded to use as trade bait for cp3.... and he ended up going to the clips because the knicks didnt have assets to offer

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

 
I've been a Sixers fan my whole life.  I can tell you with 100% certainty that the ball has been stopped to that degree and lead to success.

AI was an exception though, if you look throughout history, not to mention the 6ers actually had a HOF coach and a great defensive system.

Plus the 6ers really had what, two or three runs? They did make the finals once but never made the conference finals before or after that.

 

[100027]

i dont know if you guys are serious with the melo trade... sure they gave up a lot to get him but when you get a superstar thats the name of the game... and if you follow knicks games gallo and chandler werent all that great... sure they improved on denver and even brought them to the playoffs but when on the knicks they were so inconsistent and unreliable that i couldnt wait until they get traded...a lot of people say the knicks were better before melo but how is that? they were very mediocre when amare got there and didnt have a reliable second option... everyone was actually worried that once amare got hurt well there goes the season which ended up happening a few seasons after he became very injury prone....i dont regret the trade at all the only thing that kind of upsets me is the knicks "could have" waited until the season was over and just signed melo instead of trading for him and using gallo and chandler and everyone else they traded to use as trade bait for cp3.... and he ended up going to the clips because the knicks didnt have assets to offer

Exactly.

And Denver had a better record than the Knicks without Carmelo and with the former Knicks team.  That says a lot to me.

Carmelo Anthony isn't a superstar, but that's a debate for another day.  He's not going to win you playoff series.  I don't think the Knicks were better before the trade, but they were in a better position.   They had young assets that had the potential to grow or to be traded for the future.  They had cap flexibility.  Now they are locked into being average at best.  

I also watched every game of Amare's first season on the Knicks.  They at least played with heart and great ball movement.  Was more entertaining to me than what they have now.  

 

[black migo]

every all star talent is a ball stopper in some sort of fashion. the difference between him and other superstars are shot selection and willingness to create for others.

Melo hasnt really been a "ball stopper" with the knicks, his teammates are just finally learning how to move without the ball, they usually just sit & watch him which turns into an iso play

 

[goldmember]

Stop blaming woody! Lol

Carmelo looked dead tired and couldnt wait to get out.. He was just really aiming for that 62.. After his last bucket dude ran straight to the bench

 

[ballinsam23]

Man Melo is 100000x better and more of a willing passer than his days on Denver. He's matured like crazy his years in NY.

Plus with our current bum *** team I wouldnt mind him 30 shots a game because i dont trust anyone else.

Other superstars can play within the flow of the offense better than Melo BECAUSE THEY HAVE ANOTHER STAR ON THE TEAM.

Melo has no one. Period.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Man Melo is 100000x better and more of a willing passer than his days on Denver. He's matured like crazy his years in NY.

Plus with our current bum *** team I wouldnt mind him 30 shots a game because i dont trust anyone else.

Other superstars can play within the flow of the offense better than Melo BECAUSE THEY HAVE ANOTHER STAR ON THE TEAM.

Melo has no one. Period.

That's just a failing strategy since Anthony's chucking will get you nowhere. It's better to go through the lumps of trying to involve those crap teammates in an attempt to form a semblance of a team offense. The reward would be much higher than just letting Melo chuck and stop the ball every game. Again though, it's in his DNA to operate like this. I hope he can get out of New York and rewrite his career.

 

[Hahahaha]

*

 

[big van vader]

Let's keep it in perspective...  The second option on the Knicks is J.R. Smith.

Earl Joesph J.R. Smith III

 

[ballinsam23]

Man Melo is 100000x better and more of a willing passer than his days on Denver. He's matured like crazy his years in NY.


Plus with our current bum *** team I wouldnt mind him 30 shots a game because i dont trust anyone else.


Other superstars can play within the flow of the offense better than Melo BECAUSE THEY HAVE ANOTHER STAR ON THE TEAM.


Melo has no one. Period.

That's just a failing strategy since Anthony's chucking will get you nowhere. It's better to go through the lumps of trying to involve those crap teammates in an attempt to form a semblance of a team offense. The reward would be much higher than just letting Melo chuck and stop the ball every game. Again though, it's in his DNA to operate like this. I hope he can get out of New York and rewrite his career.

You must not watch games because he passes the ball A LOT. Thing is he passes it to a another iso player (JR), the worst starting PG in the league (Felton), a guy who bricks every wide open shot (Shump), and a guy whose lost 90% of the time on offense (Bargs

He can rewrite his career in NY. The management is just too dumb. Its not Melo.

 

[Hahahaha]

 


Melo tries to pass? Not saying his teammates are legit but you see the clear difference between Durant and Anthony. Both amazing scorers, but Durant gets his attempts within the flow of the offense, has been doing that since Texas. Anthony chooses to isolate a majority of the time, stagnates the offense and has been doing that his entire career regardless of who coached him. His ball stopping is just awful to watch.

100% correct.

Carmelo trade was far from dumb. Dolan didn't want to risk not getting him after the season because there was a very good chance of him going somewhere else and signing a max. We didn't give up any worthy players, none of them are missed. Only thing that hurt was giving up picks but it was more than worth it.


Billups was a mistake by the GM. We used our amnesty on him because we decided to pick up his 14 mil option which was stupid as hell. Should have just let him walk.

Couldn't disagree with you more.  This team has been starved for depth and assets since that trade.

And yes, Dolan was impatient and made a hasty move.  No shocker there.  

What players do we miss? We gave up Wilson Chandler, Ray Felton, Timofey Mozgov, and Gallinari. We got Carmelo, Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman. We gave up average players and received average players. When you break it down, we basically traded a 1st round and another pick for Carmelo. I can live with that.

Plus, Knicks had their best season last year since 92-93. We should have had a game 7 against Indiana last year but didn't handle that series like we could have. We beat Miami 3 games last year and were considered a bigger threat to Miami than Indiana.

Soooo yeah, the trade was fine.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

I think his career can be fulfilled here. We have cap room on the rise and a few decent young guards. Tyson is a great vet that will probably take a paycut at the end of this deal. We really just need 3 players. A point guard, a big and a consistent wing to upgrade from JR.

 

[black migo]

Nobody stops that ball to the degree of Anthony though. There is no flow at all everything just stalls. It happened in Denver too

Does kobe bryant not ring a bell i swear kobes rings overshadows his ability to be a ball stopper, 05-07 kobe was worst than melo ever was

 

[goldmember]

Maan, how quickly you guys forget.. Carmelo can win you a championship, just gotta built the perfect team for him ala 09 Nuggets.. If they only know how to inbound the ball they would go on to the finals and sweep that orlando team

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

You must not watch games because he passes the ball A LOT. Thing is he passes it to a another iso player (JR), the worst starting PG in the league (Felton), a guy who bricks every wide open shot (Shump), and a guy whose lost 90% of the time on offense (Bargs

He can rewrite his career in NY. The management is just too dumb. Its not Melo.

Unfortunately for me, I do watch them. Anthony may pass but only after he holds the ball for too long. He isolates way too much.

How do you expect him to rewrite his career with the Knicks when you look at their payroll and roster? With no draft picks

 

[ballinsam23]

Now imagine Melo had prime Pau and Bynum or even a PRIME SHAQ :x :x :x :x

Or even Phil Jackson as coach

No he has JR smith and Andrea Bargnani

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Does kobe bryant not ring a bell

i swear kobes rings overshadows his ability to be a ball stopper, 05-07 kobe was worst than melo ever was

Actually, Bryant's first three rings he also had elite talent around him and the most dominant player to ever live in Shaq. After Shaq left and Bryant was alone, he accomplished nothing and wasn't a threat at all (the 05-07 Kobe you are referring to). When he won his last two rings he became much more of a team player and trusted his teammates more than ever.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

We have a **** ton of money free in 2 years. Love sweepstakes

 

[goldmember]

Does kobe bryant not ring a bell i swear kobes rings overshadows his ability to be a ball stopper, 05-07 kobe was worst than melo ever was

Please tell me who he was ball stopping those years!? Smush? Luke? Radmanovic?

The Lakers have better chance of winning if he score 50 points a game

 

[ballinsam23]

Its not that tough rebuilding without draft picks. Just look at the Lakers and Heat.

Bargs, Tyson, and Amare all come off the books. We can sign a max. They are tradable next year because they're expiring. I'd keep Tyson.

I'd trade everyone (2015 pick, Shump, JR, felton, Jeremy Tyler, Amare) for Rondo or settle for Lowry.

Lowry
THJ
Melo
Max Player
Tyson

 

[100027]

What players do we miss? We gave up Wilson Chandler, Ray Felton, Timofey Mozgov, and Gallinari. We got Carmelo, Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman. We gave up average players and received average players. When you break it down, we basically traded a 1st round and another pick for Carmelo. I can live with that.

Plus, Knicks had their best season last year since 92-93. We should have had a game 7 against Indiana last year but didn't handle that series like we could have. We beat Miami 3 games last year and were considered a bigger threat to Miami than Indiana.

Soooo yeah, the trade was fine.

Average to average?

Gallinari is a good player.  Chandler is a good player.  Felton is an average player.  Mozgov is, whatever.

Billups was amnestied.  Shelden Williams is NOT average, he is a non-rotation player.  Anthony Carter is NOT average, he is a non-rotation player.  Balkman is NOT average, he is a non-rotation player.

That's great, your best season was being beat by a better Indiana team who you had no chance of beating in a 7 game series.  And now you are stuck with this forever.

The Nuggets, like I said, had a better record than you, in a harder conference, with all the players you traded away.  And they have plenty of draft picks and cap space to boot....