2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[mister friendly]

You're watering down the term "generational"

You cant have 10-15 generational guys playing in the NBA at the same time

A generational player is a elite superstar who does things the rest of the NBA marvels at.

A generational player is a guy, who people who have no interest in the sport would know about

To be a generational player you've have to been to considered best or 2nd best player in the NBA for a period of time.

Fair enough. I actually would agree with your points except that you said Dirk wasn't a generational talent. That's just flat out wrong to me.

I understand what you are saying but I don't feel like Dirk was ever perceived as the real best or 2nd player in the NBA.

I feel like he was just awarded an NBA MVP for having a great season with a great record and they didnt want to get the award to Steve Nash again

 

[CP1708]

You guys that disregard the draft are weird.

Every move, trade or otherwise involves the draft.

Bron leaves as FA, to join a player the Heat drafted. As well as Chalmers, Haslem, role guys drafted.

Shaq joins LA. With a rookie traded for on Draft day that develops. Later, the reverse when Bynum develops. Pau added......for draft picks and Marc Gasol, a draft pick.

08 Celts, trade Al Jeff (pick) for KG, Green (pick) for Ray, to add to Pierce, a pick, along with draft day buy Rondo and Perk. Whole thing was built using draft resources.

Magic, Bird, MJ, Duncan, drafted, 18 titles for those teams.

Dirk.


Every God damn team has been built, catered around a draft pick. This year's Indy, OKC, Portland, The Spurs, Warriors.......what the **** are you people arguing about?

So the Kings and Magic haven't aced their multiple picks due to inept management, the Draft sucks?

That's terrible logic.

As for Rockets, they didn't get Harden for average vets, they used draft picks to acquire him. Parsons???

And THEN one FA joins, and that's how you build a team?????

 

[black migo]

Putting Kobe and wade in the same sentence is goddamn disrespectful to Kobe.


But this is niketalk and Kobe was no one without shaq Gasol fisher and Phil Jackson.

Kobe just had a more fortunate career

 

[shoeking2101]

longevity, defense, scoring, work ethic, size

i dont mind putting them in the same sentence but kobe is/was better than wade in pretty much every aspect of basketball

I agree. He is better than Wade in every aspect. But I don't think the gap is that wide to the point where you can call Bean a generational talent and not call wade one. That's really splitting hairs. Wade isn't Kobe great but he's had a fantastic career that aside from Kobe and Mike, no other 2 guard can really match.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

HE WON THE MVP.


How could he not be perceived as the best player?

 

[datznasty]

the most important thing needed to build a good team is a smart front office and coaching

then it is drafting

then it is trades/freeagents



you cant use the cavs as an example for why drafting doesnt work because they could have drafted lebron, jordan and magic 3 years in a row and still found a way to mess it up.


there is no helping poor management 

The Cavs, Kings, Wizards, Bobcats, Knicks, all the bad teams in the league the draft does nothing for them unless they get a franchise changer. If they don't get a franchise changer then they'll probably end up with a player who can lead them to the 2nd round at best. And then the cycle starts all over again. It only changes if one of these teams draft a Tim Duncan, or a lebron james.

Well signing Big Al to a damn near max contract hasn't helped the Bobcats either. And we all know drafting would have helped the Cavs if they had been selecting the correct players. I agree though, too many cellar dwellers who have been down in the dumps too long and not showing real prospect of getting out of there. Then they get to hold the few good players they do get for 8 years before said player can be unrestricted

And of course it's BHZ so I shouldn't even respond but to minimize OKC's rebuilding process as if it were some side of luck, c'mon b. 26 wins, to 50 wins and 8 seed, to the WCFs, to finals all with pretty much no significant FA signings or cap busting major trades. Small tweak here or there, but nothing like how 90-00s Cuban used to rehaul the roster every few yrs,

The small market teams have the cheapest owners and then the best scouts/GMs, you take a Presti or Ujiri or Buford and put them in New York or LA and no other team would have a chance.

 

[mister friendly]

You're watering down the term "generational"

You cant have 10-15 generational guys playing in the NBA at the same time

A generational player is a elite superstar who does things the rest of the NBA marvels at.

A generational player is a guy, who people who have no interest in the sport would know about

To be a generational player you've have to been to considered best or 2nd best player in the NBA for a period of time.

Dirk was the best player in the league, Wade arguably was a number of years.

all those things apply to Dirk, Dwight and Wade.

The league is stuffed with talent right now, the idea that people don't marvel at the things that Dirk does as a shooter or that Wade did as ball handler is just silly.

Like I said earlier whats the cutoff between a generational player and an eventually Hall of Famer then?

 

[mister friendly]

HE WON THE MVP.


How could he not be perceived as the best player?

Was Derrick Rose really perceived as the best player in the NBA when he won it?

 

[sea manup]

 

the most important thing needed to build a good team is a smart front office and coaching

then it is drafting

then it is trades/freeagents



you cant use the cavs as an example for why drafting doesnt work because they could have drafted lebron, jordan and magic 3 years in a row and still found a way to mess it up.


there is no helping poor management 

The Cavs, Kings, Wizards, Bobcats, Knicks, all the bad teams in the league

the draft does nothing for them unless they get a franchise changer. If they don't get a franchise changer then they'll probably end up with a player who can lead them to the 2nd round at best. And then the cycle starts all over again. It only changes if one of these teams draft a Tim Duncan, or a lebron james.

its the bad management, they can get the next lebron and still never amount to anything. no point talking about those teams because they are hopeless and its a sad thing that these great players in this years draft will be stuck with one of these trash teams for most of his career. im talking about the teams that are good/smart enough to build championship teams, the heat/spurs/lakers/celtics unless they currently have a superstar they should be tanking and getting the next superstar to build around. if the lakers get someone as good as blake griffin this year, who is far from duncan/lebron level, i will be very happy and its someone we can build around and use to attract other players

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Chris Bosh is going to the hall of fame, so is Paul Peirce , Pau Gasol, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Paul Geroge, is on track,


not generational talents

 

[100027]

Like I said earlier whats the cutoff between a generational player and an eventually Hall of Famer then?

Ginobili is a future HOFer but not a generational player.

Dirk is the DEFINITION of a generational player.

 

[black migo]

I understand what you are saying but I don't feel like Dirk was ever perceived as the real best or 2nd player in the NBA.

I feel like he was just awarded an NBA MVP for having a great season with a great record and they didnt want to get the award to Steve Nash again

The first 7 footer with a better jumpshot than 90% of the league, thats not a generational talent?

 

[shoeking2101]

Well signing Big Al to a damn near max contract hasn't helped the Bobcats either. And we all know drafting would have helped the Cavs if they had been selecting the correct players. I agree though, too many cellar dwellers who have been down in the dumps too long and not showing real prospect of getting out of there. Then they get to hold the few good players they do get for 8 years before said player can be unrestricted

See i'm one of those that, yeah the cats overpaid for Big Al, but what was the alternative? To continue to suck? No one that's franchise changing is signing to charlotte, and the amount of luck required to draft a franchise changer is just too high. I would have signed him. At the very least, now the cats have a competent product on the floor that looks like they'll get in the playoffs with which to me, is far better than just sucking until a relative miracle happens.

 

[sea manup]

in terms of how much value they have given to the teams that drafted him the top 3 since jordan retired would be

1a kobe

1b duncan

3 dirk

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Generational talent is simply this: Guys who have an out-sized impact on winning a basketball games, guys who's presence on the floor tilts every possession in your favour.

Current generational talents (excluding guys no longer in their primes, or post back injury Dwight)

Lebron
Durant
CP3

thats it, thats the list.

 

[datznasty]

I would have signed someone else or just waited for a better FA class. If I'm going to pay a dude the max and still suck, get me a dude who can sell jerseys, tickets, get me on tv, etc. Nobody checking for Big AL's 27 pump fake then pivot jump hook. At least Hot Sauce gets into the All Star Game here and probably continuing into the future

 

[sea manup]

the bobcats are not trying to win a championship any time soon, they just want to win a few games each year make the playoffs and the fans will be happy

there are a bunch of teams like that and its fine

but teams that want to win a championship NEED to get at least one franchise player via the draft

 

[ohmygosher]

DWade is a generational bum.

 

[shoeking2101]

in terms of how much value they have given to the teams that drafted him the top 3 since jordan retired would be

1a kobe
1b duncan

3 dirk

I agree. And what's crazy is that LAL didn't draft Kobe or Shaq. I always said Shaq was going to sign to LA regardless. The rap career was booming, he was acting, they offered him a load of money, LAL had some talent, he was coming there with or without Kobe.

In hindsight, obviously it was a great deal to trade for Kobe but that trade to me, if I was 21 in 96', would have been the dumbest trade ever a 17 year old 2 guard? From High School? Wow. West hit the jackpot with Kobe and I honestly don't know who would have done that deal. Incredibly risky. But that's what makes great people great at what they do, risktakers. And even so, without the O'neal signing LAL would have continued to be mediocre. The cornerstones of the Laker franchise since 2000 weren't even drafted by them.

 

[datznasty]

the bobcats are not trying to win a championship any time soon, they just want to win a few games each year make the playoffs and the fans will be happy

there are a bunch of teams like that and its fine


but teams that want to win a championship NEED to get at least one franchise player via the draft

Wow they are in the playoffs, 8 seed at 7 games under .500 , 25th in attendance though

 

[shoeking2101]

I would have signed someone else or just waited for a better FA class. If I'm going to pay a dude the max and still suck, get me a dude who can sell jerseys, tickets, get me on tv, etc. Nobody checking for Big AL's 27 pump fake then pivot jump hook. At least Hot Sauce gets into the All Star Game here and probably continuing into the future

Ehhh but the Cats don't suck now. The Lakers? They suck the Cavs? They suck but The Cats may actually make the playoffs. So at least they have a go to guy that can get them in the playoffs as oppose to a hot shot point guard who's dribbling his team into the lottery every year.

I would prefer the Cats situation over the Cavs 10 times out of 10.

 

[datznasty]

Oh they suck, but you're right they're in the playoffs right now so that's $ for them. I still think I would have also been able to leverage having Jordan around into a more popular team and better attendance and landing some FAs or something too. But 1 goal at a time I guess

 

[duba169]

How can Dwight be a generation talent when he would have been trash in every other era

I mean. Wow. He doesn't belong in the same sentence as wade and drik

And I'm shocked someone one doesn't think dirk isnt a generational talent. We've never really seen anything like him before. He's amazing

 

[black migo]

Ehhh but the Cats don't suck now. The Lakers? They suck the Cavs? They suck but The Cats may actually make the playoffs. So at least they have a go to guy that can get them in the playoffs as oppose to a hot shot point guard who's dribbling his team into the lottery every year.

I would prefer the Cats situation over the Cavs 10 times out of 10.

The lottery>>>extra week of basketball

 

[shoeking2101]

The lottery>>>extra week of basketball

For what though? Rather than putting a competitive product on the floor, you would prefer they stay in the lottery until they get lucky and land a franchise changer in the draft?