2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[Mamba4life]

Lol @ Jordan having a GREAT supporting cast, yet Kobe's was simply GOOD while having a guy named Shaq on the team.

Lol @ Bron not having an OUT-OF-THIS-WORLD supporting cast.....get real.

If Durant was to leave OKC, I could see him wanting to sign with the Wizards. He's always come off as that type of guy. He's a homer. So come on home to DC KD.

An out of this world supporting cast shouldn't have one guy leading the team in points, rebounds, assist, steals, and minutes while guarding the opposing teams best player during crunch time. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, never had to do ALL of that. I'm not saying he's a better player than anyone on that list, but he damned sure has had less help. Think about it like this. If you were to list all of the tandems....shaq/Kobe/MJ/PIP./LBJ/Wade/Magic/Kareem.. and you were to rank them, would D-wade be towards the top of that list or the bottom? To say Lebron's supporting cast was out of this world when he led the team in damn near EVERY statistical category either means his cast is not that good or they're playing like squat.

 

[trynafeelmink]

I'm along the same but i do think that Rus Would love to have his own team in the future and Him possibly be able to team up with k.Love in L.A and be viewed as the leader of that team could be enough to get him to leave.

If Rus leaves durant isn't staying there much longer IMO

 

[senorroboto2k5]

We haven't let anyone reach free agency without preemptively trading them if they don't extend early, don't know why anybody thinks Presti would decide to finally start risking it with KD. Even Maynor we flipped early to get something (a small TPE) out of him, got a TPE from Kevin Martin, traded James early since he wouldn't sign, etc. If it comes to KD not wanting to extend the previous summer before his final contract yr, Presti has to trade him for the best haul he can get.

Interesting, but it's a lot different to pull that trigger when it's with possibly the best player in the game. Not sure I would expect Presti to do the same with KD as he did with an unproven Harden.

 

[gotjz]

An out of this world supporting cast shouldn't have one guy leading the team in points, rebounds, assist, steals, and minutes while guarding the opposing teams best player during crunch time. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, never had to do ALL of that. I'm not saying he's a better player than anyone on that list, but he damned sure has had less help. Think about it like this. If you were to list all of the tandems....shaq/Kobe/MJ/PIP./LBJ/Wade/Magic/Kareem.. and you were to rank them, would D-wade be towards the top of that list or the bottom? To say Lebron's supporting cast was out of this world when he led the team in damn near EVERY statistical category either means his cast is not that good or they're playing like squat.

Well it's all about complementary pieces. What you're comparing here are guys that do different things and have different strengths to a certain extent. Each of those guys were each other's ying to the yang with exception of MJ/Pip. MJ/Pip was still different because Pip always had the reputation as the defensive guy whereas Jordan was Jordan on offense. Pippen's defense made ppl have to stop and say "wait Jordan is a good defender too". With LBJ/Wade, they do so many of the same things and there isn't a lot that they can do different from each other. It's like an overlapping duo, and then it becomes a matter of who does what a little better as opposed to LBJ does the things LBJ does and Wade handles Wade's strengths.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[luckyp824]

 

Lol @ Jordan having a GREAT supporting cast, yet Kobe's was simply GOOD while having a guy named Shaq on the team.

Lol @ Bron not having an OUT-OF-THIS-WORLD supporting cast.....get real.

If Durant was to leave OKC, I could see him wanting to sign with the Wizards. He's always come off as that type of guy. He's a homer. So come on home to DC KD.

An out of this world supporting cast shouldn't have one guy leading the team in points, rebounds, assist, steals, and minutes while guarding the opposing teams best player during crunch time. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, never had to do ALL of that. I'm not saying he's a better player than anyone on that list, but he damned sure has had less help. Think about it like this. If you were to list all of the tandems....shaq/Kobe/MJ/PIP./LBJ/Wade/Magic/Kareem.. and you were to rank them, would D-wade be towards the top of that list or the bottom? To say Lebron's supporting cast was out of this world when he led the team in damn near EVERY statistical category either means his cast is not that good or they're playing like squat.

In the 2001 playoffs: Kobe averaged 29.4 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists as a second option.

LBJ averaged 25.9, 8.4 rebounds, 6.6 assists in the playoffs last year.

Lakers were a top heavy team with just Shaq/Kobe. They had to do everything. That's why Kobe averaged first option numbers as second option. Comparing it to just Wade doesn't do justice to Bosh, Ray, etc.

I disagree with Kobe having only a "good" supporting cast with Shaq though. MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Magic, Bron, etc all had great supporting casts.

 

[quik1987]

Shaq still won finals MVP

 

[jsindaa]

Where is CP's rant on 4 straight finals? Are yall freakin serious right now? Of course this year's heat isn't as good. They're coming off three straight finals runs. Yall don't think fatigue exists? There's a reason wade has nagging injuries. Like I said last week they have 3 dudes that can get you 25+ any night. That didn't just all the sudden go away. Wade isn't wade anymore because that wouldn't work. Bron leads the team in everything because he's the ultimate swiss army knife. Even when Bosh and Wade aren't scoring 25 a game the fact that it's BOSH and WADE makes it impossible to ignore them, which makes Miami extremely dangerous. You can't just key on Bron and say we'll make their second option beat us, their second option is a first option on 90% of the teams in the league....and so is their THIRD option. Yall trippin

 

[Mamba4life]

In the 2001 playoffs: Kobe averaged 29.4 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists as a second option.

LBJ averaged 25.9, 8.4 rebounds, 6.6 assists in the playoffs last year.

Lakers were a top heavy team with just Shaq/Kobe. They had to do everything. That's why Kobe averaged first option numbers as second option. Comparing it to just Wade doesn't do justice to Bosh, Ray, etc.

I disagree with Kobe having only a "good" supporting cast with Shaq though. MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Magic, Bron, etc all had great supporting casts.

I was all set to argue with you when I saw you say Shaq and supporting cast in the same sentence. Shaq was 30/15 that post season and the MVP. I see that you listed them both as each others support so I guess that's cool

 

[bhzmafia14]

Speaking of the Lakers...

Grizz sign former Laker great Darius Morris to a 10-day contract. He's part of the reason for Dwight and Nash coming to LA.

 

[luckyp824]

Quote:

 

In the 2001 playoffs: Kobe averaged 29.4 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists as a second option.

LBJ averaged 25.9, 8.4 rebounds, 6.6 assists in the playoffs last year.

Lakers were a top heavy team with just Shaq/Kobe. They had to do everything. That's why Kobe averaged first option numbers as second option. Comparing it to just Wade doesn't do justice to Bosh, Ray, etc.

I disagree with Kobe having only a "good" supporting cast with Shaq though. MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Magic, Bron, etc all had great supporting casts.

I was all set to argue with you when I saw you say Shaq and supporting cast in the same sentence. Shaq was 30/15 that post season and the MVP. I see that you listed them both as each others support so I guess that's cool

That's a direct quote from you and gotJz. Shaq and Kobe were first and second options. I posted that twice. 

 

[sea manup]

 

An out of this world supporting cast shouldn't have one guy leading the team in points, rebounds, assist, steals, and minutes while guarding the opposing teams best player during crunch time. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, never had to do ALL of that. I'm not saying he's a better player than anyone on that list, but he damned sure has had less help. Think about it like this. If you were to list all of the tandems....shaq/Kobe/MJ/PIP./LBJ/Wade/Magic/Kareem.. and you were to rank them, would D-wade be towards the top of that list or the bottom? To say Lebron's supporting cast was out of this world when he led the team in damn near EVERY statistical category either means his cast is not that good or they're playing like squat.

Well it's all about complementary pieces. What you're comparing here are guys that do different things and have different strengths to a certain extent. Each of those guys were each other's ying to the yang with exception of MJ/Pip. MJ/Pip was still different because Pip always had the reputation as the defensive guy whereas Jordan was Jordan on offense. Pippen's defense made ppl have to stop and say "wait Jordan is a good defender too". With LBJ/Wade, they do so many of the same things and there isn't a lot that they can do different from each other. It's like an overlapping duo, and then it becomes a matter of who does what a little better as opposed to LBJ does the things LBJ does and Wade handles Wade's strengths.

Hope that makes sense.

out of the tandems listed lebron/wade is by far the worst of the bunch and even ignoring wade's decline its mostly because they are the same player (as you said). kobe and shaq, magic and kareem were at their best when magic and kobe were doing what they did best (run the offense) and kareem and shaq did what they do best (dominate the middle, finish plays) there was no overlap. a lot of heat possessions where lebron is running the offense wade is just standing in a corner somewhere, same with lebron when wade is running the offense. It was also a problem that MJ and Pip had to deal with but the triangle allowed for the off ball guy to always be in motion and everything ran smoother because of it.

 

[gotjz]

Quote:

That's a direct quote from you and gotJz. Shaq and Kobe were first and second options. I posted that twice. 

What was a direct quote from me?

out of the tandems listed lebron/wade is by far the worst of the bunch and even ignoring wade's decline its mostly because they are the same player (as you said). kobe and shaq, magic and kareem were at their best when magic and kobe were doing what they did best (run the offense) and kareem and shaq did what they do best (dominate the middle, finish plays) there was no overlap. a lot of heat possessions where lebron is running the offense wade is just standing in a corner somewhere, same with lebron when wade is running the offense. It was also a problem that MJ and Pip had to deal with but the triangle allowed for the off ball guy to always be in motion and everything ran smoother because of it.

That was my exact point. And for the LBJ era'd Heat, when you take out their top 2 pieces....players 3-13 are far better than 3-13 of any of MJ's Bulls as well as Shaq/Kobe's Lakers. By far.

 

[sea manup]

out of the tandems listed lebron/wade is by far the worst of the bunch and even ignoring wade's decline its mostly because they are the same player (as you said). kobe and shaq, magic and kareem were at their best when magic and kobe were doing what they did best (run the offense) and kareem and shaq did what they do best (dominate the middle, finish plays) there was no overlap. a lot of heat possessions where lebron is running the offense wade is just standing in a corner somewhere, same with lebron when wade is running the offense. It was also a problem that MJ and Pip had to deal with but the triangle allowed for the off ball guy to always be in motion and everything ran smoother because of it.

That was my exact point. And for the LBJ era'd Heat, when you take out their top 2 pieces....players 3-13 are far better than 3-13 of any of MJ's Bulls as well as Shaq/Kobe's Lakers. By far.

how are the miami players not named lebron wade and bosh better than the lakers players not named kobe and shaq?

horry and fish are two of the greatest role players of all time, rick fox is a great defender, shaw is a solid backup PG and great shooter

combined with how they worked within the triangle i would take the lakers supporting cast over miami every day of the week

i guess you could make an argument for individual talent but the lakers guys complemented their superstars as well as any supporting cast in nba history, and thats the most important factor

 

[ill steelo]

 

An out of this world supporting cast shouldn't have one guy leading the team in points, rebounds, assist, steals, and minutes while guarding the opposing teams best player during crunch time. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, never had to do ALL of that. I'm not saying he's a better player than anyone on that list, but he damned sure has had less help. Think about it like this. If you were to list all of the tandems....shaq/Kobe/MJ/PIP./LBJ/Wade/Magic/Kareem.. and you were to rank them, would D-wade be towards the top of that list or the bottom? To say Lebron's supporting cast was out of this world when he led the team in damn near EVERY statistical category either means his cast is not that good or they're playing like squat.

Well it's all about complementary pieces. What you're comparing here are guys that do different things and have different strengths to a certain extent. Each of those guys were each other's ying to the yang with exception of MJ/Pip. MJ/Pip was still different because Pip always had the reputation as the defensive guy whereas Jordan was Jordan on offense. Pippen's defense made ppl have to stop and say "wait Jordan is a good defender too". With LBJ/Wade, they do so many of the same things and there isn't a lot that they can do different from each other. It's like an overlapping duo, and then it becomes a matter of who does what a little better as opposed to LBJ does the things LBJ does and Wade handles Wade's strengths.


Hope that makes sense.

out of the tandems listed lebron/wade is by far the worst of the bunch and even ignoring wade's decline its mostly because they are the same player (as you said). kobe and shaq, magic and kareem were at their best when magic and kobe were doing what they did best (run the offense) and kareem and shaq did what they do best (dominate the middle, finish plays) there was no overlap. a lot of heat possessions where lebron is running the offense wade is just standing in a corner somewhere, same with lebron when wade is running the offense. It was also a problem that MJ and Pip had to deal with but the triangle allowed for the off ball guy to always be in motion and everything ran smoother because of it.

Did u stop watching the Heat after 2011?

Wade is VERY active off the ball. He's totally reinvented his game in that regard. He doesn't spot up anymore than Pippen/MJ did.

 

[ill steelo]

Carlos Boozer unhappy with minutes

Carlos Boozer has not played in the fourth quarter in the past two games and is clearly bothered by what he perceives as a lack of opportunity from coach Tom Thibodeau.

"He's been doing that a lot since I've been here, not putting me in in the fourth quarter. Sometimes we win; more times than not, we don't. But that's his choice."

Link

 

[sea manup]

 

 

 

An out of this world supporting cast shouldn't have one guy leading the team in points, rebounds, assist, steals, and minutes while guarding the opposing teams best player during crunch time. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, never had to do ALL of that. I'm not saying he's a better player than anyone on that list, but he damned sure has had less help. Think about it like this. If you were to list all of the tandems....shaq/Kobe/MJ/PIP./LBJ/Wade/Magic/Kareem.. and you were to rank them, would D-wade be towards the top of that list or the bottom? To say Lebron's supporting cast was out of this world when he led the team in damn near EVERY statistical category either means his cast is not that good or they're playing like squat.

Well it's all about complementary pieces. What you're comparing here are guys that do different things and have different strengths to a certain extent. Each of those guys were each other's ying to the yang with exception of MJ/Pip. MJ/Pip was still different because Pip always had the reputation as the defensive guy whereas Jordan was Jordan on offense. Pippen's defense made ppl have to stop and say "wait Jordan is a good defender too". With LBJ/Wade, they do so many of the same things and there isn't a lot that they can do different from each other. It's like an overlapping duo, and then it becomes a matter of who does what a little better as opposed to LBJ does the things LBJ does and Wade handles Wade's strengths.


Hope that makes sense.

out of the tandems listed lebron/wade is by far the worst of the bunch and even ignoring wade's decline its mostly because they are the same player (as you said). kobe and shaq, magic and kareem were at their best when magic and kobe were doing what they did best (run the offense) and kareem and shaq did what they do best (dominate the middle, finish plays) there was no overlap. a lot of heat possessions where lebron is running the offense wade is just standing in a corner somewhere, same with lebron when wade is running the offense. It was also a problem that MJ and Pip had to deal with but the triangle allowed for the off ball guy to always be in motion and everything ran smoother because of it.

Did u stop watching the Heat after 2011?

Wade is VERY active off the ball. He's totally reinvented his game in that regard. He doesn't spot up anymore than Pippen/MJ did.

yes he has gotten better at it which is a main reason that the heat have won two championships but him playing off the ball is not where he is most effective. you're going to get more overall production with lebron and wade leading different teams than having them on the same team, same could be said about MJ and Pip but pip played his entire career as the #2 guy so it wasnt really an adjustment he had to make. kobe and shaq/gasol or magic and kareem on the other hand dont play the same role so they can both be playing at their best and most effective and not take away from the other guy's game.

not the best example because nash was 80 years old last year but he ran the offense for a while last year and we lost a bunch of games, it was only till kobe took over in running the offence when we started winning and had one of the best second half records in the league. when nash was running the offense kobe was playing off ball and it was a HUGE waste of his talents, when kobe was running the offense nash was playing off ball and it was a waste of a lot of his talents. this is because they are both at their best when handling the ball a lot and running the offense. on the other hand when nash did his thing with a post player in amare their strengths complemented eachother, same with kobe and pau.

of course any team with lebron and wade along with bosh and a great defense is going to win championships but if you are building a two core team and want to make the most of each player then the best way to go about doing things is to get a wing and a post player

 

[calibeebee]

Looking forward to Wall vs Lillard and Bron vs Griffin tonight

 

[T0INE]

Looking forward to Wall vs Lillard and Bron vs Griffin tonight

Heat @ Clippers is on Wednesday pleighboi.

 

[Mamba4life]

Quote:

That's a direct quote from you and gotJz. Shaq and Kobe were first and second options. I posted that twice. 

I would never call Shaq anyone's supporting cast. Shaq wouldn't be MJ's supporting cast if they were on the same team. MJ would be his....

 

[sea manup]

 

Quote:

That's a direct quote from you and gotJz. Shaq and Kobe were first and second options. I posted that twice. 

I would never call Shaq anyone's supporting cast. Shaq wouldn't be MJ's supporting cast if they were on the same team. MJ would be his....

role players are the supporting cast, lebron/wade  magic/kareem  shaq/kobe  gasol/kobe  mj/pip  are all two great players who know how to bring out the best of each other

i do agree that if you put any other wing player in the history of the nba with shaq in those three finals series, shaq will get MVP every time

 

[kevin cleveland]

Looking forward to Wall vs Lillard and Bron vs Griffin tonight

A.D. versus Duncan for the world to see on NBATV.

 

[calibeebee]

Looking forward to Wall vs Lillard and Bron vs Griffin tonight

Heat @ Clippers is on Wednesday pleighboi.

Ah that's what I meant. I have both nights off from work so in my mind they are on the same night

 

[tommyicerocking]

good lawd

 

[had pants]

 

[kevin cleveland]

No way that impossibly-caught off-the-backboard pass to LeBron on Christmas isn't a top 10 dunk this season.