2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[essential1]

Man Kobe need to stop

Shaq was lazy but he was the most valuable player on those championship teams.

Get that man back on the court so he stops making an *** out of himself in the media.

He's talking in terms of why it ended, and why they couldn't get more.

In that sense, he's not wrong.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

He could skate through **** though.

 

[certifiedflyboi23]

I thought it ended because Kobe and Shaq clashed about who was #1

 

[Peep Game]

The Mavs fighting for the 8th seed this year and last year was/is more entertaining than some of the years they were "contenders" in the mid 00s.

Mavs and Knicks will get that 8th seed and will both KO the 1st seed. U heard it here first

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Yall know how I feel about the Lakers and Kobe but he's 100% right.

I thought Tyson can't do anythign but dunk

 

[awwsome]

Wait what?

Dirk's had two bad playoff series ever. The 2006 Finals and 2007 first round that's it.

Played bad in 05 too but you're right I was being extra, his team just never went deep besides 03/06/11.

 

[essential1]

Honestly the 2011 Finals series is still a huge black mark for Lebron in this discussion. Even in light of the other things he's done, it's hard for me to make sense of what happened in that series. It's still inexplicable to this day. And I thought he had put it past him completely, but he still looked shaky in some of those games against the Spurs last year. It's my opinion/observation that Lebron has a tendency to overthink in pressure situations. *Tendency* doesn't mean he does it every single time, but from what I've noticed that tendency is always lurking there.

Kobe played pretty bad in both recent Finals wins, Pau shoulda been MVP in one of them and Dirk only started playing well in postseason in 2011.

Once again, the bias.

It was 1 series, he's won two rings and delivered in the clutch more times than I can count since then.

Believe what you want though my man.

Pau should not have won MVP in either of them. Stop it.

Before you bring up Game 7, Pau started the Game 4/13. Kobe led the game in 4th quarter points, and pulled 14 boards.

Win or lose, Kobe Finals MVP?
PER Diem: June 14, 2010
By John Hollinger
ESPN.com

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

BOSTON -- In an odd Finals filled with statistical oddities and in which each game has borne virtually no resemblance to its predecessor, it's perhaps fitting that through five games we're left with another unusual situation: There is no clear-cut choice for series MVP. In fact, if Boston were to close things out with a win in Game 6 on Tuesday, as many as four Celtics could garner serious consideration.

Of course, the MVP doesn't have to come from the winning team. While this isn't the letter of the rule it's been an unwritten law for the past four decades -- every Finals MVP since 1969 has come from the winning team. Alas, every rule has its exception, and after Sunday night's 38-point effort we may be looking at one in the form of Kobe Bryant.

While the Celtics deserve their 3-2 lead in the series, there's no question who the best player has been over these first five games. That point was driven home with a sledgehammer in Game 5 when Bryant scored 19 points in the third quarter only to find the Celtics' lead had increased when he was done.

This continued a Finals in which Bryant has had at least 20 points in every game, has had only one game that possibly could be construed as somewhere close to ordinary (Game 2), and has had a pair (Games 1 and 5) in which he was absolutely spectacular.

For the series, Bryant is averaging 30.2 points per game; no other player is averaging more than 19. He's done it reasonably efficiently too, with a 55.2 true shooting percentage in a series in which the average has been 53.4. That's amazing considering the difficulty of the attempts he's taken, especially in Game 5.

Bryant has filled the stat sheet in various and sundry other ways, too. Bryant leads all Finals players in steals, is second in assists and has yanked down six rebounds a game. About the only quibble one could make is that he's been a bit turnover-prone; of course, he's playing against the league's top turnover-forcing defense, so this shouldn't come as a huge shock.

And while the league doesn't award extra points for degree of difficulty, part of the reason Bryant has been forced into such challenging attempts is how little help he's received from the cavalry. Again, this point was hammered into our consciousness in the second half of Game 5 -- Pau Gasol was the only Lakers starter to score a basket after halftime, and the Spaniard's play was positively repulsive throughout (among his other assorted flubs, did anyone else catch him standing in the paint watching as Nate Robinson flew by for an easy fourth-quarter layup?).

If you're not sold on Bryant's MVP case yet, then consider the alternative. If not Kobe, who?


The fact is Bryant has been by far the most productive player, and the only reason the Celtics are ahead is because five of the next six best players (the four above and supersub Glen Davis) have been wearing green. If series MVP voters are using their heads and not their hearts, Bryant is an obvious pick even with his team trailing.

There's an irony here, of course. I mentioned above that only one player has won Finals MVP in a losing effort; it was Bryant's idol and mentor, former Lakers star Jerry West. Wait, there's more. It came in the 1969 Finals … against the Celtics … against a veteran Boston team, in fact, that had won only 48 games and was seeded just fourth in the Eastern Conference at the start of the playoffs. L.A. ended up losing Game 7 at home despite 42 points, 13 rebounds and 12 assists from West.

A lot of water still has to go under the bridge for Kobe to join West, but suffice it to say that if Kobe goes for 42, 13 and 12 in a losing effort in the finale the award is probably his regardless of what anyone on the Celtics does.

Of course, Kobe would only join West if the Lakers did, in fact, lose the series. He could also go down in history more happily if the Lakers win the final two games. At this point I'd say it's a foregone conclusion that he'll win the award if that happens, with Gasol having essentially eliminated himself from further consideration with his performances in Games 4 and 5 and no other player coming close to Bryant statistically.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Nothing compares to lebron's performance in 2011. Nothing

 

[awwsome]

He could skate through **** though.

I'm saying, "lazy" Shaq was still a historically great player.

As "focused" as Kobe is, he's never touched Shaq's efficiency, even in his prime.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Wait what?

Dirk's had two bad playoff series ever. The 2006 Finals and 2007 first round that's it.

Played bad in 05 too but you're right I was being extra, his team just never went deep besides 03/06/11.

Wait so being 2 games from a championship isn't deep.

And what about making the WCFs in 2003.

I consider myself a pretty decent NBA fan and I've never heard 4/5 of the guys the Lakers just had on the floor.

 

[awwsome]

"Besides"

 

[dt43]

Honestly the 2011 Finals series is still a huge black mark for Lebron in this discussion. Even in light of the other things he's done, it's hard for me to make sense of what happened in that series. It's still inexplicable to this day. And I thought he had put it past him completely, but he still looked shaky in some of those games against the Spurs last year. It's my opinion/observation that Lebron has a tendency to overthink in pressure situations. *Tendency* doesn't mean he does it every single time, but from what I've noticed that tendency is always lurking there.

Kobe played pretty bad in both recent Finals wins, Pau shoulda been MVP in one of them and Dirk only started playing well in postseason in 2011.

Once again, the bias.

It was 1 series, he's won two rings and delivered in the clutch more times than I can count since then.

Believe what you want though my man.

Both? Kobe beasted in the '09 Finals. He played poorly in '10, but at least you could see the effort there. Lebron didn't even look interested in that 2011 series, I've never seen anything like it from an athlete at the top of his sport.. if you look at the stats, he had the worst dropoff ever for a starter from regular season to playoffs.

If Lebron didn't check out mentally in that 2011 series I would view him differently. Sorry if it's hard for people to forget one of the greatest players of all time peeing down his leg in the NBA Finals

 

[carltonjunior]

I'm saying, "lazy" Shaq was still a historically great player.

As "focused" as Kobe is, he's never touched Shaq's efficiency, even in his prime.

That's an unfair comparison because one is a guard and one is a center. If Kobe was as big as Shaq I'd bet that he would be the best player to ever play the game.

A dominant center will always have more impact on the league than a dominant guard, that's why the two shouldn't merge in basketball discussions.

 

[awwsome]

Pau should not have won MVP in either of them. Stop it.

Before you bring up Game 7, Pau started the Game 4/13. Kobe led the game in 4th quarter points, and pulled 14 boards.

Win or lose, Kobe Finals MVP?
PER Diem: June 14, 2010
By John Hollinger
ESPN.com

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

BOSTON -- In an odd Finals filled with statistical oddities and in which each game has borne virtually no resemblance to its predecessor, it's perhaps fitting that through five games we're left with another unusual situation: There is no clear-cut choice for series MVP. In fact, if Boston were to close things out with a win in Game 6 on Tuesday, as many as four Celtics could garner serious consideration.

Of course, the MVP doesn't have to come from the winning team. While this isn't the letter of the rule it's been an unwritten law for the past four decades -- every Finals MVP since 1969 has come from the winning team. Alas, every rule has its exception, and after Sunday night's 38-point effort we may be looking at one in the form of Kobe Bryant.

While the Celtics deserve their 3-2 lead in the series, there's no question who the best player has been over these first five games. That point was driven home with a sledgehammer in Game 5 when Bryant scored 19 points in the third quarter only to find the Celtics' lead had increased when he was done.

This continued a Finals in which Bryant has had at least 20 points in every game, has had only one game that possibly could be construed as somewhere close to ordinary (Game 2), and has had a pair (Games 1 and 5) in which he was absolutely spectacular.

For the series, Bryant is averaging 30.2 points per game; no other player is averaging more than 19. He's done it reasonably efficiently too, with a 55.2 true shooting percentage in a series in which the average has been 53.4. That's amazing considering the difficulty of the attempts he's taken, especially in Game 5.

Bryant has filled the stat sheet in various and sundry other ways, too. Bryant leads all Finals players in steals, is second in assists and has yanked down six rebounds a game. About the only quibble one could make is that he's been a bit turnover-prone; of course, he's playing against the league's top turnover-forcing defense, so this shouldn't come as a huge shock.

And while the league doesn't award extra points for degree of difficulty, part of the reason Bryant has been forced into such challenging attempts is how little help he's received from the cavalry. Again, this point was hammered into our consciousness in the second half of Game 5 -- Pau Gasol was the only Lakers starter to score a basket after halftime, and the Spaniard's play was positively repulsive throughout (among his other assorted flubs, did anyone else catch him standing in the paint watching as Nate Robinson flew by for an easy fourth-quarter layup?).

If you're not sold on Bryant's MVP case yet, then consider the alternative. If not Kobe, who?


The fact is Bryant has been by far the most productive player, and the only reason the Celtics are ahead is because five of the next six best players (the four above and supersub Glen Davis) have been wearing green. If series MVP voters are using their heads and not their hearts, Bryant is an obvious pick even with his team trailing.

There's an irony here, of course. I mentioned above that only one player has won Finals MVP in a losing effort; it was Bryant's idol and mentor, former Lakers star Jerry West. Wait, there's more. It came in the 1969 Finals … against the Celtics … against a veteran Boston team, in fact, that had won only 48 games and was seeded just fourth in the Eastern Conference at the start of the playoffs. L.A. ended up losing Game 7 at home despite 42 points, 13 rebounds and 12 assists from West.

A lot of water still has to go under the bridge for Kobe to join West, but suffice it to say that if Kobe goes for 42, 13 and 12 in a losing effort in the finale the award is probably his regardless of what anyone on the Celtics does.

Of course, Kobe would only join West if the Lakers did, in fact, lose the series. He could also go down in history more happily if the Lakers win the final two games. At this point I'd say it's a foregone conclusion that he'll win the award if that happens, with Gasol having essentially eliminated himself from further consideration with his performances in Games 4 and 5 and no other player coming close to Bryant statistically.

Listen I love Kobe but Pau was more valuable in 2010

 

[awwsome]

That's an unfair comparison because one is a guard and one is a center. If Kobe was as big as Shaq I'd bet that he would be the best player to ever play the game.

A dominant center will always have more impact on the league than a dominant guard, that's why the two shouldn't merge in basketball discussions.

I see where you're coming from but two wing players, Lebron and KD have been more valuable to their teams than Shaq was. Kobe could've done the same but he's too much of a high volume shooter and not as effecient as those two.

MJ also had times where he was that effecient, we're quick to lump Kobe in that group so what's the problem?

 

[dt43]

Also I remember Phil Jackson saying that Shaq "played a clown role".. obviously that rubbed Kobe the wrong way.

I think people automatically blamed Kobe for the team breaking up, but imo both guys were at fault. It was never gonna work beyond 2004. Their personalities were just too different, and I can see Shaq being the type of guy who plays too much and pushes teammates buttons (just that no one ever stood up to him because he's Shaq.. until Kobe had enough)

 

[awwsome]

UGhhh, not gonna happen

It's true though and like I said Kobe is my guy.

Don't tell me because he scored more he was more valuable either.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Didn't know Rudy T. was still employed by the Lakers

 

[ill steelo]

So show me a Durant moment that even compares to Bron against Boston/Pacers/Pistons or his game winning 3 in the ECF against Orlando.

I don't see how you can even have that opinion when Durant hasn't done things like that with those stakes.

Like I said, it's just a personal observation type thing. A lot of athletes tend to overthink when they're in pressure situations, I admire the players who are able to get in a zone and achieve the height of their skills. Jordan, Kobe, and Durant are the basketball players who always give me that feeling that they have utmost confidence, and are unafraid of the moment. It's an intangible thing


Edit: and add Dirk to that list of course

You criticize Bron for 2011, but u put Dirk on the list after he won 67 games & the MVP award but lost in the first round while averaging 19 points on 38% shooting?

lolwut

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

 

[dt43]

So show me a Durant moment that even compares to Bron against Boston/Pacers/Pistons or his game winning 3 in the ECF against Orlando.

I don't see how you can even have that opinion when Durant hasn't done things like that with those stakes.

Like I said, it's just a personal observation type thing. A lot of athletes tend to overthink when they're in pressure situations, I admire the players who are able to get in a zone and achieve the height of their skills. Jordan, Kobe, and Durant are the basketball players who always give me that feeling that they have utmost confidence, and are unafraid of the moment. It's an intangible thing


Edit: and add Dirk to that list of course

You criticize Bron for 2011, but u put Dirk on the list after he won 67 games & the MVP award but lost in the first round while averaging 19 points on 38% shooting?

lolwut

I put that because he had just hit some big shots in the game at that moment, calm down

 

[awwsome]

You criticize Bron for 2011, but u put Dirk on the list after he won 67 games & the MVP award but lost in the first round while averaging 19 points on 38% shooting?

lolwut

I've been struggling to understand b.

 

[essential1]

UGhhh, not gonna happen

It's true though and like I said Kobe is my guy.

Don't tell me because he scored more he was more valuable either.

28.6/8.0/3.9

1st in points, 2nd in rebounds, 1st in assists, 1st in steals, 2nd in blocks on the Lakers


If you include the Celtics 1st in points, 2nd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 1st in steals, T-3rd in Blocks.

 

[awwsome]

Kobe still blew it, he would have more rings than MJ if he could co-exist with Shaq.


That's why Shaq skipped to Miami and won a ring so quickly with Wade, players with his impact aren't replaceable.

 

[CP1708]

Pau should not have won MVP in either of them. Stop it.

Before you bring up Game 7, Pau started the Game 4/13. Kobe led the game in 4th quarter points, and pulled 14 boards.

Win or lose, Kobe Finals MVP?
PER Diem: June 14, 2010
By John Hollinger
ESPN.com

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

BOSTON -- In an odd Finals filled with statistical oddities and in which each game has borne virtually no resemblance to its predecessor, it's perhaps fitting that through five games we're left with another unusual situation: There is no clear-cut choice for series MVP. In fact, if Boston were to close things out with a win in Game 6 on Tuesday, as many as four Celtics could garner serious consideration.

Of course, the MVP doesn't have to come from the winning team. While this isn't the letter of the rule it's been an unwritten law for the past four decades -- every Finals MVP since 1969 has come from the winning team. Alas, every rule has its exception, and after Sunday night's 38-point effort we may be looking at one in the form of Kobe Bryant.

While the Celtics deserve their 3-2 lead in the series, there's no question who the best player has been over these first five games. That point was driven home with a sledgehammer in Game 5 when Bryant scored 19 points in the third quarter only to find the Celtics' lead had increased when he was done.

This continued a Finals in which Bryant has had at least 20 points in every game, has had only one game that possibly could be construed as somewhere close to ordinary (Game 2), and has had a pair (Games 1 and 5) in which he was absolutely spectacular.

For the series, Bryant is averaging 30.2 points per game; no other player is averaging more than 19. He's done it reasonably efficiently too, with a 55.2 true shooting percentage in a series in which the average has been 53.4. That's amazing considering the difficulty of the attempts he's taken, especially in Game 5.

Bryant has filled the stat sheet in various and sundry other ways, too. Bryant leads all Finals players in steals, is second in assists and has yanked down six rebounds a game. About the only quibble one could make is that he's been a bit turnover-prone; of course, he's playing against the league's top turnover-forcing defense, so this shouldn't come as a huge shock.

And while the league doesn't award extra points for degree of difficulty, part of the reason Bryant has been forced into such challenging attempts is how little help he's received from the cavalry. Again, this point was hammered into our consciousness in the second half of Game 5 -- Pau Gasol was the only Lakers starter to score a basket after halftime, and the Spaniard's play was positively repulsive throughout (among his other assorted flubs, did anyone else catch him standing in the paint watching as Nate Robinson flew by for an easy fourth-quarter layup?).

If you're not sold on Bryant's MVP case yet, then consider the alternative. If not Kobe, who?


The fact is Bryant has been by far the most productive player, and the only reason the Celtics are ahead is because five of the next six best players (the four above and supersub Glen Davis) have been wearing green. If series MVP voters are using their heads and not their hearts, Bryant is an obvious pick even with his team trailing.

There's an irony here, of course. I mentioned above that only one player has won Finals MVP in a losing effort; it was Bryant's idol and mentor, former Lakers star Jerry West. Wait, there's more. It came in the 1969 Finals … against the Celtics … against a veteran Boston team, in fact, that had won only 48 games and was seeded just fourth in the Eastern Conference at the start of the playoffs. L.A. ended up losing Game 7 at home despite 42 points, 13 rebounds and 12 assists from West.

A lot of water still has to go under the bridge for Kobe to join West, but suffice it to say that if Kobe goes for 42, 13 and 12 in a losing effort in the finale the award is probably his regardless of what anyone on the Celtics does.

Of course, Kobe would only join West if the Lakers did, in fact, lose the series. He could also go down in history more happily if the Lakers win the final two games. At this point I'd say it's a foregone conclusion that he'll win the award if that happens, with Gasol having essentially eliminated himself from further consideration with his performances in Games 4 and 5 and no other player coming close to Bryant statistically.

Listen I love Kobe but Pau was more valuable in 2010