2014 NBA Draft Thread

MCW isn't a bum, but people need to stop dropping the ROY's statline like we should be expecting him to be the future best PG in the NBA.

He was rookie of the year in one of the worst draft classes in recent memory and putting up inflated stats on the team with the highest pace in the league.
 
Some of these comparison are :lol: :x

Ceilings, floors for draft prospects
To whom do Embiid, Parker, Wiggins and 25 others compare?
Updated: June 20, 2014, 10:29 AM ET
By Jeff Goodman | ESPN Insider


Everyone likes player comparisons, but they are extremely difficult to do because, well, each player is different.

After speaking to NBA guys, college coaches and watching some of these kids play hundreds of times over the years, here are our comparisons. We give you a ceiling and a floor for 28 of the top prospects available in the June 26 NBA draft.

Remember, these are high-end comparisons -- and will be extremely difficult for any of these guys to reach -- but they give you a better understanding of what type of player they might be at the next level.

Joel Embiid

High end: Hakeem Olajuwon. Though we don't know exactly how badly Embiid has injured his foot, in a vacuum, if Embiid lives up the massive potential he possesses, is an Olajuwon comparison accurate? It's a ridiculously lofty comparison that isn't really fair, since the Dream is one of the greatest big men in the history of the game, but Embiid is skilled on the offensive end and also has a chance to be a big-time presence on the defensive end. Embiid's numbers as a freshman (11.2 points per game, 8.1 rebounds per game, 2.6 blocks per game) were actually superior to Olajuwon's (8.3 PPG, 6.2 RPG, 2.5 BPG) as a freshman at the University of Houston.

Low end: Bismack Biyombo. They are different players, but Biyombo -- who was drafted seventh overall in 2011 -- has averaged 4.3 points and 4.1 rebounds in his first three seasons in the NBA. I'd be shocked if Embiid's production were comparable.

Jabari Parker

High end: Glenn Robinson. Most people go with Carmelo Anthony, but Big Dog might be a more apt comparison. They are both flat-out scorers, have similar body builds and can fill it up from all three levels: beyond the arc, midrange and also in the paint. The comparison is also valid due to their defensive deficiencies. Robinson averaged 20.7 points and 6.1 rebounds for his career.

Low end: Antoine Walker. I'm thinking more of the late-career Walker, the guy who loved to jack 3-pointers, rarely defended and was just a flat-out chucker with no conscience.

Andrew Wiggins

High end: Paul George. While he enters the NBA with far different expectations than George had, they both have tremendous athleticism, similar skill sets and body types. People also questioned their intensity, consistency and killer instinct coming out of college. George emerged as one of the NBA's top players as he concluded his fourth season in the league.

Low end: Corey Brewer. In the worst-case scenario, Wiggins should be a terrific defender who is an average offensive player, much like Brewer. This past season, Brewer averaged 12.3 points as a full-time starter in Minnesota while shooting 28 percent from beyond the arc.


Dante Exum

High end: Penny Hardaway. This is a difficult one, because Exum still remains somewhat of a mystery to most NBA execs. However, Exum is nearly as tall as Hardaway, has question marks surrounding his perimeter shot and is a guy who should be able to both score and distribute.

Low end: Avery Bradley. While he's taller than Bradley, there are questions -- as was the case with Bradley -- on whether he is a point guard or a 2-guard and whether he can make shots from long distance. Exum has the potential -- like Bradley -- to be a tremendous defender.

Julius Randle

High end: Zach Randolph. This is the most common one because they are both left-handers who will rebound the ball at a high level. Randle is more explosive and will be a better defender, while Randolph is more skilled and has a better touch.

Low end: Marcus Fizer. I don't ever see this happening, but both are big, strong, physical forwards. Fizer was drafted fourth overall in 2000 out of Iowa State and averaged 9.6 points and 4.6 rebounds in a six-year NBA career.

Marcus Smart

High end: Baron Davis. Both are big, strong and tough point guards whose perimeter shots were the weakness of their games. When Davis was healthy, he was one of the best point guards in the NBA.

Low end: Jarrett Jack. He's also got a big, strong body and has had a solid career in the NBA. He's a combo guard, and some view Smart in that manner, although he's improved his court vision and floor game over the past year.


Noah Vonleh

High end: Chris Webber. Both are big, strong forwards who bring versatility to the table. Vonleh hasn't shown a ton of it yet, but he can step out and handle the ball and make shots. Webber averaged 20.7 points and 9.8 rebounds during his career.

Low end: Horace Grant. This is the comparison if Vonleh doesn't become much of a scorer. Grant was a terrific piece for a championship team and averaged 11.2 points and 8.1 rebounds in his career.

Aaron Gordon

High end: Shawn Marion. There have been comparisons to NBA Finals MVP Kawhi Leonard as well, but Marion may be more valid, at least right now. Marion -- "The Matrix" -- was an athletic tweener forward who struggled to shoot it from deep.

Low end: Tristan Thompson. This is if Gordon doesn't improve his skill level. Thompson is a high-playing, high-character power forward who defends and rebounds.

Doug McDermott

High end: Wally Szczerbiak. They are both tremendous shooters, and they were both questioned coming into the league due to their size and athleticism. Szczerbiak wound up averaging 14.1 points in a lengthy NBA career.

Low end: Matt Bonner. At worst-case level, McDermott is a specialist like Bonner, who comes off the bench and buries shots for a team that goes deep in the postseason. But I'd be shocked if he weren't much closer to Szczerbiak than Bonner.


Nik Stauskas

High end: Klay Thompson. Both are big-time shooters who possess a high IQ and can do a little bit of everything. Thompson has averaged 17.8 points over his first three NBA seasons, which may be difficult for Stauskas to match.

Low end: J.J. Redick. Stauskas should be more than just a piece and a one-dimensional shooter such as Redick, but this is likely his floor. Redick has averaged a shade below double figures over his NBA career, but is one of the best pure long-range shooters in the league.

Gary Harris

High end: Joe Dumars. This was a tough one to come up with, because Harris is a fairly unique player. He's a smaller 2-guard who might be able to play some point in the league. Dumars was also a versatile guard who could shoot it well, get to the basket and defend.

Low end: Randy Foye. They have similar builds, both are more off-guard than point guard and both possess the ability to score from long distance and getting to the basket. Foye has averaged 11.7 points during his career.

James Young

High end: Kerry Kittles. Both are long wings who can shoot the ball. Kittles was drafted eighth overall in 1996 and had a solid, yet unspectacular, NBA career, averaging 14.3 points during seven seasons.

Low end: Brandon Rush. While Rush is more athletic, they have similar bodies, and Rush improved his long-range shot while in the NBA. He's a solid reserve who has averaged 8.3 points during his first five NBA campaigns.

Tyler Ennis

High end: Andre Miller. Neither of these two will wow you with their athleticism, but Miller has put together a solid, consistent NBA career that has spanned more than 15 seasons. He averaged 13.3 points and 6.9 assists over the course of his career.

Low end: D.J. Augustin. Augustin is coming off an impressive season in Chicago filling in for the injured Derrick Rose, but he has been a backup for much of his NBA career. A solid athlete who is reliable.

Zach LaVine

High end: Gerald Green. Both have exceptional athleticism, but it took Green time to find his niche, as he is coming off his best season as a pro, averaging 15.8 points in Phoenix. Look for LaVine to endure growing pains as well as NBA folks question his feel for the game.

Low end: Wesley Johnson. Has similar length and athleticism, and while LaVine has better ball skills, both struggle to put it on the floor and get by defenders. Both are athletic and shoot it well. Johnson has been a role player in his first four seasons in the league, averaging 8.1 points per game.

Dario Saric

High end: Detlef Schrempf. The 6-foot-9 native of Germany was drafted eighth back in 1985 and had a nice run with both Indiana and Seattle in the early to mid 1990s. He wasn't known as a shooter, but he was skilled as a passer and had a high IQ.

Low end: Omri Casspi. The 6-9 Israeli was picked 23rd back in 2009 and has had a ho-hum NBA career thus far, averaging 7.7 points in four seasons. He has started just three games over the past two seasons.

Rodney Hood

High end: Trevor Ariza. We're talking more about the 28-year-old Ariza, who averaged 14.4 points, 6.2 rebounds and shot 41 percent from beyond the arc this past season for the Wizards. Both are long, athletic and skilled.

Low end: Calbert Cheaney. The former Indiana star averaged double figures in the NBA in each of his first five seasons, but then he bounced around and was a role player the remainder of his career. Both are smooth, versatile shooters, with Hood possessing more length and size at 6-8.

T.J. Warren

High end: Paul Pierce. This is the high, high end, especially because Warren hasn't proved he can be a reliable long-range shooter. However, both have the gift of scoring, and neither is a world-class athlete.
Low end: Michael Beasley. They are both scorers who don't have elite athleticism. Beasley has struggled both on and off the court, and he barely got off the bench in the playoffs for the Heat.



Adreian Payne

High end: Rasheed Wallace. Both are skilled big men who like to step out and drill shots from beyond the arc. Wallace averaged 14.4 points and 6.7 rebounds in his lengthy NBA career and had some terrific seasons in Portland and Detroit, although he was high-maintenance.

Low end: Channing Frye. The 6-11 Arizona product is long, can step out and make shots from deep and has started 340 games in his career, but hasn't been much more than a fourth or fifth option on the floor.

Jusuf Nurkic

High end: Nikola Pekovic. Both are big, strong in-the-paint centers. Pekovic has spent four seasons in Minnesota, and has career averages of 18.5 points and 9.7 rebounds. Both are below-the-rim players.

Low end: Aaron Gray. Gray is a 7-0 270-pounder who has bounced around in the NBA since being drafted in the second round back in 2007. Gray is limited athletically and has averaged 3.4 points in his career.

Elfrid Payton

High end: Rajon Rondo. Payton is extremely fast, isn't much of a perimeter shooter and can really defend. He's also clever with the ball, like Rondo.

Low end: Darren Collison. The former UCLA point guard is extremely fast, and while he's bounced around in his five seasons in the league, he's averaged double figures in points each season. He backed up Chris Paul this past season with the Clippers.

P.J. Hairston

High end: John Salmons. This one may seem a little low, but Salmons was a big-time perimeter shooter with size who averaged 18.3 points in 2008-09, 15.4 points in 2009-10 and 14 points in 2010-11.

Low end: Jodie Meeks. He can flat-out shoot the ball from downtown, and that's what Hairston will be able to do. Meeks has been primarily a role guy, but he excelled this past season with a decimated Lakers team.

Kyle Anderson

High-end: Hedo Turkoglu. Both have size and can really pass the ball. Anderson will be more of a point forward in the NBA, while Hedo is a better athlete and came into the league as a far superior defender.
Low end: Luke Walton. Anderson is an extremely unique player, but both he and Walton have similar size, athleticism and feel for the game.



Shabazz Napier

High end: Chauncey Billups. Napier isn't as big as Billups, but he is actually a more advanced perimeter shooter at the same stage. Both are scoring point guards who bring a toughness to the table.
Low end: Ramon Sessions. He's been a solid backup in the league, for the most part, throughout his career.

Jordan Clarkson

High end: Jeff Teague. Clarkson is bigger than Teague, but he's got tremendous speed and many question his perimeter shot. Teague averaged 16.5 points and 6.7 assists in his fifth NBA season with the Hawks.
Low end: Jerryd Bayless. He's caught in between positions, not a point guard and not a shooter. That's the question with Clarkson.

Mitch McGary

High end: Kenneth Faried. McGary is a little bigger, but the comparisons are there because both can be terrific rebounders due to their high motor. Neither is overly skilled.
Low end: Mark Madsen. The Mad Dog lasted nearly a decade in the NBA due to his ability to come in, throw his body around and just play with intensity. He averaged 2.2 points and 2.6 boards in his career.

Cleanthony Early

High end: Cliff Robinson. They can both score inside and out. Robinson was a little taller, and he averaged 14.2 points in a lengthy NBA career.
Low end: Al Thornton. They are both 6-7, and while Thornton is a little more athletic, Early is the better shooter. Thornton bounced around the NBA for a few years after being drafted 14th in 2007, but hasn't been in the league for a while.

K.J. McDaniels

High end: Andre Iguodala. McDaniels is a terrific athlete like Iggy, and he has a chance to be a high-level defender. Both are mediocre perimeter shooters.
Low end: DeMarre Carroll. Carroll is coming off a nice campaign with Atlanta, but he's been a reserve who brings athleticism and energy off the bench for most of his career. He thrives in transition and getting to the basket, but has a questionable shot.

Jordan Adams

High end: James Harden. Adams isn't as athletic as Harden, but he uses angles like the Rockets star, and he just has a knack for scoring. This is an extremely high-end comp.
Low end: Wayne Ellington. He was picked at the end of the 2009 draft and has been a reserve for most of his career as a guy who can make shots. Adams has a more well-rounded offensive game.
 
Big J 33 said:
MCW isn't a bum, but people need to stop dropping the ROY's statline like we should be expecting him to be the future best PG in the NBA.

He was rookie of the year in one of the worst draft classes in recent memory and putting up inflated stats on the team with the highest pace in the league.
Click to expand...
Who said he would be the future best PG in the NBA....

And also of the last 20 ROYs, all but 5 players were All-Stars

Its doesn't matter how bad a draft class is, he beat out 60+ other NBA players for an award, which is a feat in itself

What does a draft class have to do with an individual... If LeBron was ROY in this weak of draft, does that make him overrated? 
 
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I don't think it's fair to judge MCW at all by last season. He was literally playing on a D-League team 80% of the year. He's clearly going to be inefficient and TO prone playing next to guys that wouldn't make most rosters - that made him the only guy worth caring about for NBA defenses. At the same time, it's probably the only team in the league that'll make him the 1 option and let him do whatever he wants. He was also playing at a ridiculously fast pace because Brett Brown gave no damns - which inflates all of his numbers.

He could either be the real deal or just a guy like Evan Turner, an AVG player putting up numbers on a terrible team. No way to tell until the Sixers start signing/drafting NBA players instead of D-Leaguers.
 
Ford with the latest on Embiid and more:
How far will Joel Embiid slide?

I was on the phone with an NBA general manager Thursday morning, and we were discussing how surprisingly predictable the draft was looking this year. Joel Embiid was going No. 1. Jabari Parker looked close to a lock at No. 2. Andrew Wiggins was a major lock at No. 3. The Orlando Magic had narrowed it down to Dante Exum and Noah Vonleh at No. 4. The Utah Jazz would take whichever of the two the Magic left on the table. To have the draft that predictable this early was ... nice.

Then the news that Embiid had a stress fracture in his right foot broke, sending shock waves through the NBA. The news spawns a host of questions, but here are the two biggest a week out before the draft.

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1. Who will the Cleveland Cavaliers draft No. 1?

The Cavs were leaning heavily toward drafting Embiid after a terrific workout in Cleveland last week. Their biggest concern was whether they could get away with trading down to No. 3, picking up Thaddeus Young from the Sixers and still landing Embiid.

Oh, how things have changed.

Embiid, I'm told by sources, hasn't totally been eliminated. The Cavs, like everyone else, are waiting to hear back from the doctors after Friday's surgery. But it's highly likely that they are going to go in a different direction now if they keep the No. 1 pick.

They essentially have three options: Wiggins, Parker or trade the pick. As of Thursday night, the Cavs were still looking at all three options.

Wiggins has never really been atop the Cavs' Big Board this year. However, a source close to the team predicted to me on lottery night that it'd eventually work its way to Wiggins. Embiid was a risk and too far away. Parker was ready now but didn't help them in the areas they needed help. Wiggins was the compromise candidate -- upside plus the ability to make an impact now, especially on the defensive end.

He worked out for the Cavs in Cleveland on Wednesday, and by all accounts had a strong workout. It's hard not to be impressed with the explosiveness of Wiggins, and it's clear he's been working on tightening up his game in a number of ways. Wiggins shot the ball well in the workout. The Cavs walked away convinced that he has the potential to be a good shooter someday. Wiggins has been growing on them, just like he's been growing on the Milwaukee Bucks.

Parker comes in Friday and will go through a similar workout. He's not going to be as impressive athletically as Wiggins, but he's more skilled and more ready to play right now. Parker was atop Chris Grant's board all year before he was let go, and there is still a strong faction in the organization that is behind Parker. But there are issues with his game. Parker is a terrific offensive player, but the team really needs someone who can start ramping up the defense. That's Parker's biggest weakness.

He's also still a bit heavy (he weighed 254 pounds with 11 percent body fat in the Bucks' workout). The team has also been working on slimming down Anthony Bennett to get him minutes at the small forward position. He's another offense-first type player. Are they giving up on him? And while Parker is a safe pick, can he really push them over the top into the playoffs?

That leaves us with trade options for the Cavs. Now, more than ever, there's a motivation to explore trading the pick. Sources said in the wake of the Embiid news that the Philadelphia 76ers, Magic and Jazz all made calls to the Cavs (and Bucks) about moving up.

The Sixers now have even more motivation to move up to No. 1. So do the Magic and Jazz. If the Cavs aren't in love with Wiggins and don't think Parker has the upside they're after, trading the pick to someone who values it more makes some sense.

The Sixers have several assets, including Thaddeus Young, Michael Carter-Williams and the No. 10 pick to offer. They also have loads of cap space to take contracts back. The Magic have the Nos. 4 and 12 picks, as well as veterans such as Arron Afflalo who could interest the Cavs. And the Jazz, if they would make Derrick Favors available in addition to the No. 5 pick, might be able to convince them, as well.

The Cavs have some very tough decisions coming. What once seemed like a slam dunk at No. 1 has gotten much more complicated. And until teams know what they are going to do, the entire draft is now in flux.

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2. How far will Embiid slide?

We know that Embiid's injury is serious. Breaking the navicular bone in your foot is a major injury, as our own Kevin Pelton pointed out yesterday.

I've had teams tell me he could be out anywhere from four months to a year. No one will really know for sure until they receive updated medicals after his surgery Friday. Not every break is the same; some are harder to fix than others. Once we have a better timetable on his injury, we'll have a better feel for his draft stock.

But as of Thursday night, here's what we know: The chances that he goes No. 1 or No. 2 are slim to none. There are two other good options on the board in Wiggins and Parker, and neither of them has had a stress fracture in their back and foot.

But after that? All bets are off.

The Sixers took a gamble on Nerlens Noel last year knowing he likely would miss the entire season. Noel is now healthy and ready to play, and many feel he was the best pick in his draft class. The Sixers' timeline can allow them to be patient. Noel and the No. 10 pick could be their rookies this season. However, Embiid isn't a perfect fit next to Noel, and the Sixers have also coveted Exum. So I think the odds that the Sixers take Embiid at No. 3 are less than 20 percent.

The Magic have wanted a rim protector and could see an opportunity here. They too have another lottery pick and some flexibility to be patient. Nikola Vucevic has been more than solid the past two years, but he doesn't provide the Magic with the shot-blocking they desperately need. If Embiid makes a full recovery, he's a steal at No. 4. The problem for the Magic is that they have other needs, too. They need a point guard, and Marcus Smart will be there. They also need a stretch 4, and Vonleh is likely to be on the board. Can they pass on both of them for Embiid? I put the odds of them doing so at 50 percent.

The Jazz are intrigued, as well, but I doubt they'd pull the trigger on Embiid. They went into the tank this season with the idea that they'd bounce back in 2014-15. With Embiid, it would be another season at the bottom of the standings in the West. I don't think ownership signed up for that.

That leaves the Celtics. From everything I can gather, GM Danny Ainge, barring unforeseen complications in Embiid's surgery, wouldn't let Embiid slide past here. If Ainge can't land Kevin Love, I think you'll see the Celtics go into full rebuilding mode this summer, and taking Embiid, the guy who could end up being the best player in the draft, would have to be very tempting.

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Other Notes

Another possible scenario for the Sixers is to try to package Young and No. 10 to get a higher lottery pick. One potential scenario is with the Lakers. The Los Angeles Lakers have been looking to add young veterans to pair with Kobe Bryant, and they might be willing to move down a few spots to get one. Moving to No. 7 would guarantee the Sixers get one of the top young power forwards in the draft -- Vonleh, Julius Randle or Aaron Gordon -- or, if he slides, Embiid.

• We've had the Lakers really narrowed down to two players -- Smart and Randle -- the past two weeks.

Smart had a stellar workout in Los Angeles versus Tyler Ennis earlier in the month. It was so dominant that the Lakers will bring him back Friday against who they hope will be a tougher opponent: Louisiana Lafayette's Elfrid Payton. Payton worked out the same day as Smart last time they were together in L.A., but they didn't work out against each other. Payton worked out in a separate group versus UCLA's Zach LaVine and was dominant there. Now the Lakers want to see them together.

Randle wowed the Lakers this week in a workout. The Lakers are one of the teams who aren't very concerned with his potential foot issues. Randle has gotten in better shape over the process and was explosive in the workout they saw.

Both make sense for the Lakers. If they are going to keep the pick, they'll want a player who can make an immediate impact. These two are your best bets at this point in the lottery. Smart can be an immediate contributor on the defensive end. He's got NBA size and strength for his position, and he goes hard all the time. Randle already has the tools to be a big-time rebounder from Day 1 and, like Smart, he's got a terrific motor and toughness. They are Bryant's types of players.

The Lakers have also been trying to get in Creighton's Doug McDermott for a second workout after a very impressive first one. It's unclear whether McDermott is in the mix at No. 7 or whether they are interested in him for scenarios where they move down a few spots in the draft (like the Sixers-Lakers scenario described above).

The thinking on McDermott is similar to Smart and Randle. He's NBA-ready and provides an immediate NBA skill (spot-up shooting). If Smart struggles in the workout, or if the Lakers decide not to take a risk on Randle's foot, or if they trade down, McDermott could be the guy.

• Speaking of McDermott, he and Michigan's Nik Stauskas did a workout for the Kings, Nuggets, Timberwolves and Warriors in Chicago on Tuesday. None of those four teams were able to get either player in for a workout, but they were able to schedule this meeting in Chicago.

The Kings have shown strong interest in McDermott. He's an unusual fit for a team that's loaded with gunners and is making a full-on effort to lure Rudy Gay back to Sacramento. But he and Smart are definitely in the mix for them. Payton is being considered, as well, although it appears the Kings are looking at him more for scenarios where they move down a few spots in the draft.

The Nuggets and Timberwolves have both been in the market for shooters -- although both teams have been among the most active in trade discussions leading up to the draft.

The Warriors don't have a first-round pick, though they've been trying to move up in the draft using Harrison Barnes as bait and have been involved in trade discussions centering on Kevin Love that could net them Minnesota's 13th pick (though the latest from Marc Stein actually has the Wolves demanding that the Warriors give them a future first-round pick). But I wouldn't read too much into the visit. While the Kings, Nuggets and Warriors brought large contingents of their staff to the workouts, the Warriors were only represented by Larry Riley, their director of scouting.

• One mystery man in this draft has been Michigan's Mitch McGary. He hasn't worked out for anyone to date, despite the fact that he's been practicing and playing in Chicago for almost two months. Is his back still an issue? Or did a team late in the first round already lock him up?

Both are possibilities, but I'm told McGary will have one or two workouts this last week leading up to the draft, starting with the Milwaukee Bucks on Friday.

• Finally, NBA green room invites have finally come in. Here is a partial list of confirmed invites to the NBA draft next Thursday: Wiggins, Parker, Embiid (who, per his agent, will decline), Exum, Vonleh, Gordon, Smart, McDermott, Stauskas, Ennis, Payton, Gary Harris, James Young, T.J. Warren, Jusuf Nurkic, Shabazz Napier and Rodney Hood.
Click to expand...
 
DaComeUP said:
Now, I take Thad and 10 before I take Thad and MCW in all honesty. 
Click to expand...

Agreed

I rather stay at 7 overall, but if I am just dropping to 10, I rather have that piece than MCW and hope and pray one of the guys we like slides.
 
Man i wonder if utah would give up Favors and their pick to cle. Their revenue would go through the roof if they draft Jabari
 
laugh.gif
 At this Utah Push. People sitting around and ignoring this blatant attempt at fan exploitation
 
I love The comparison of Jabari & PG or even Kawhi Leonard.... Great defenders, who aren't great shooters but can also finish
 
I subsrcribe to them on YT just because they upload a lot of material, but I've never listened to their podcasts. But from afar, they get great guests.
 
Those Jordans Lavine is wearing felt like bricks when I tried them on the other day. He deserves an applause just for that.
 
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