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The MMA Thread: DON'T ASK 4 STREAMS & NO GIFS- Huge Bellator Card: SAT 6/24 on Spike/PPV @5PM - Page 115

post #3421 of 41029
Has dustin's standup improved a lot? I just remember not liking his striking and it not looking fluid.
post #3422 of 41029

His standup has improved somewhat. He still has a lot to improve in my book. He tends to leave himself open a lot and he walks into a lot of shots.

post #3423 of 41029
Thread Starter 

Dustin still has a ways to go with his striking. He still relies on his ground game a lot but at the same time Dustin loves to bang. I agree with Phillyz in that Dustin leaves himself open, in fact he took heavy shots from Brandao. Dustin admitted himself on the Ariel show that he gets too anxious and leaves himself vulnerable. That's dangerous going against Conor. This fight just has epic written all over it.

 

Btw, how the hell the UFC gonna rank Frankie above Cub? If they fight then it makes no difference, but there's no way in hell Cub isn't the #1 contender after Mendes.

post #3424 of 41029
Pettis vs melendez confirmed on ufc 181 Dec. 6?

If yes, then good news. Stay healthy both of them so the title/contenders keeps moving.
post #3425 of 41029
Going to my first live event this Saturday. Can't wait. Hope its as good as the last two cards.
post #3426 of 41029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Van Ho View Post


Btw, how the hell the UFC gonna rank Frankie above Cub? If they fight then it makes no difference, but there's no way in hell Cub isn't the #1 contender after Mendes.

Probably because Frankie's been in title fights 7 of his last 9 scraps and Cub has yet to beat anyone in the Top5?

Frankie been in that spot for a looooong time. Cub is working his way up to it. And not for nothing, but Cub is ranked above Lamas, who he lost to, which is probably more questionable.

Cub is that dude but I feel like him and Cerrone are getting spoken of for title fights somewhat prematurely. There are guys that BEEN at the top of those divisions for a while now that are somehow being looked over.

Which is why I BEEN saying, line up Frankie and Cub.
post #3427 of 41029
Quote:
Originally Posted by illphillip View Post


Probably because Frankie's been in title fights 7 of his last 9 scraps and Cub has yet to beat anyone in the Top5?

Frankie been in that spot for a looooong time. Cub is working his way up to it. And not for nothing, but Cub is ranked above Lamas, who he lost to, which is probably more questionable.

Cub is that dude but I feel like him and Cerrone are getting spoken of for title fights somewhat prematurely. There are guys that BEEN at the top of those divisions for a while now that are somehow being looked over.

Which is why I BEEN saying, line up Frankie and Cub.

I would have Frankie as the #1 FW behind Aldo but I'd say give Cub a title shot because Frankie can fight Aldo after him. It's been a long time since Cub fought Aldo and I want to see Aldo give him that work again :lol. Plus Frankie already fought Aldo more recently than Cub has.

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post #3428 of 41029
See, now that I totally understand. And sort of agree with. I wouldn't mind seeing Cub and Aldo again especially since Cub will be out to redeem himself.

But to say Cub deserves to be the #1 contender at FW over Frankie for beating Stephens and Siver, and he's lost to Lamas is OD to me.

Frankie is 22-4 and has fought for the belt 7 times in last 4-5 years.
Cub is 21-5 and fought for a title once. Lost in 8 seconds.
post #3429 of 41029
Cub is on a 6 fight win streak and his last 5 wins are Stephens, Siver, Poirier, Oliveira and Pearson.

He has the best streak going in the division, even more so than Mendes.

Frankie already jumped the line when he got a shot at Aldo which was justified at the time given his pedigree at 155.

Cub has definitely done the most work at 145 to earn the shot but seeing how the title fight has been pushed back i can see Frankie/Cub happening in the meanwhile.
post #3430 of 41029
I think we put too much value in streaks. Exactly why I mentioned Cerrone.

Level of competition has to count for something and I'm just not seeing that in that list of Cub's opponents.
post #3431 of 41029

The problem with the rankings is that if a champ or #1 contender loses, they hardly ever drop below the #1 spot. Barao, Silva, Bendo, Mendes, Faber all lost title fights but were all ranked at #1 after losing. The #2, 3, etc, guys that are fighting are never rewarded and moved up to #1.

 

Since losing Mendes fought McKenzie, Meza, Elkins, Guida, & Lentz. Edgar fought Oliveira and Penn. With Cub fighting Roop, Pearson, Poirier, Siver, and Stevens his last 5 fights. Compared to Edgar and Mendes' opponents, I'd rank Cub's last 5 opponents over theirs. But because they were ranked higher than him and haven't lost, its nearly impossible for him to overtake them in the rankings. 

post #3432 of 41029
Quote:
Originally Posted by illphillip View Post

I think we put too much value in streaks. Exactly why I mentioned Cerrone.

Level of competition has to count for something and I'm just not seeing that in that list of Cub's opponents.

Agreed. Same situation for Matt Brown.

Dude is as rugged as they come, but he hasn't really seen a legit top 10/5 guy yet. He is about to face the 2nd best fighter in the division coming off a loss, I wouldn't wish that on anyone right now... Streaks don't tell the whole story.
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post #3433 of 41029
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyzPhan View Post

The problem with the rankings is that if a champ or #1 contender loses, they hardly ever drop below the #1 spot. Barao, Silva, Bendo, Mendes, Faber all lost title fights but were all ranked at #1 after losing. The #2, 3, etc, guys that are fighting are never rewarded and moved up to #1.

Since losing Mendes fought McKenzie, Meza, Elkins, Guida, & Lentz. Edgar fought Oliveira and Penn. With Cub fighting Roop, Pearson, Poirier, Siver, and Stevens his last 5 fights. Compared to Edgar and Mendes' opponents, I'd rank Cub's last 5 opponents over theirs. But because they were ranked higher than him and haven't lost, its nearly impossible for him to overtake them in the rankings. 

You'd rank Cub's last 5 opponents over Edgar's?

Frankie's last 5 are BJ, Oliviera, Aldo and Bendo twice.
post #3434 of 41029

Frankie lost to Aldo and Bendo twice. And I was only counting opponents at 145 lbs. 

post #3435 of 41029
I understand that he lost.

But the level of opponent was much higher and all were close fights. Which is my point.

Quality of competition has to play a role vs. "streaks".

If you're a fighter who is constantly fighting for the belt, why would a guy who hasn't beaten a legit contender for the belt be ranked ahead of you?
Edited by illphillip - 7/22/14 at 10:32am
post #3436 of 41029
He got his shot based off what he did at 155 and that' cool. As a recent champ i think its okay to jump the line once if you're moving down in weight. After that you gotta start accumulating wins like everybody else. Frankie hasn't beat anybody who is 'legit' at 145. His best win is Oliveira who Cub has also beat.

No one has a stellar streak at 145 but Cubs is the best, so i think that gives him the best claim to the next shot. Frankie still needs a top 5 win in my eyes.


Anyway if Frankie/Cub went down who do you think would take it?? That **** would be super close imo.
post #3437 of 41029
Thread Starter 

Cub's win streak has been against nothing but quality :lol

 

And all finishes, except against Dustin, who is on the cusp of a #1 contender's fight himself.

 

Just because you go up against quality (and lose) doesn't mean you should stay ranked ahead of guys who have won against quality themselves. That doesn't make any sense. 

post #3438 of 41029
Level of quality in their opponents is not remotely the same. You're fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

To make it seem like Frankie being ranked above Cub is some travesty because of a "streak" is ridiculous to me.

Even now, the term "streak" is getting thrown around left and right as opposed to "he beat ____ who is at the top of the division.

If you're not an established contender, which I think we can safely say Frankie is and has been for some time now, then you need to earn that.

Pretty much everyone who gets a shot at the title is on some kind of "streak", but beating some guys at the TOP of the division should be a part of that for you to get a shot. And I'm not sure Cub or Cerrone has done that yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smedroc View Post



Anyway if Frankie/Cub went down who do you think would take it?? That **** would be super close imo.

I don't predict, so I don't know and I don't care. I just want to see this fight already and I've been asking for it for like 2 years now!
post #3439 of 41029
Thread Starter 

When has Frankie beat anyone in the top 5? When was the last time. Maynard in 2011? What are the quality wins he's had, Oliveira, Penn and Maynard? Frankie is an elite fighter, in fact he's my #4 in the division but stop living in the past in Penn and Maynard. 

 

Cub has 4 victories against top 15 opponents (2 of them were recently top 10- Stephens and Siver) and 1 of those is #6 (who went on a tear himself after the loss).

 

The quality of Cub's win streak is impressive as you can ask for. Stop ******** on it, you just look silly and living in the past.

post #3440 of 41029
Thread Starter 

Cub's situation is much different than Cerrone's btw. Cerrone got dominated by Bendo twice, Nate, RDA and Pettis. I think Cerrone should definitely have to beat one of Bendo or RDA to get a title shot, I've said so in this thread.

post #3441 of 41029
laugh.gif

Dude, you're lost. And talking in circles to completely ignore my point.

Where did I mention Maynard? Nowhere. And if I'm living in the past, you're living in the future, because today, Cub is not the #1/2 contender at FW.

Cub hasn't beaten anyone, IMO, that legitimately warrants a title shot. Or a #1/2 contender position. And it's no travesty. Period.

He hasn't beaten anyone Top 5. He's actually 0-1 against the Top 5 right now. Dudes are really hyped off Stephens and Siver like that? HA!

I've explained it as clearly as possible. But I'll do it again just for you.

When you fight at the top of the division, consistently against the best, and lose close fights, you don't free fall out of the top of the division.

Guys like JDS, Bendo, Gil, Barao, Lawler, even Anderson were/are all still up there amidst their loses.

Cub is working his way up to that. But hasn't beaten, or even FOUGHT for that matter, anyone that warrants a title shot.

You list Cerrone's loses. But he's at least fought the best. He fought all the guys at the top of the division. Cub lost to Lamas. Is somehow ranked ahead of him.

So I'm assuming you have Lamas ranked above Cub? OK.

**** ain't that complicated as to why Frankie is ranked ahead of him. This is actually the first I've heard of anyone even having an issue with it. But there's always one laugh.gif

Best way to settle that is to have them fight.
Edited by illphillip - 7/22/14 at 1:53pm
post #3442 of 41029

Poirier vs McGregor set for UFC 178. 

post #3443 of 41029
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyzPhan View Post

Poirier vs McGregor set for UFC 178. 

Wow. Hell of a card.

Jones/Gus
Cruz/Mizugaki
McGregor/Diamond
Kennedy/Romero
Zingano/Nunes

Sign me up. pimp.gif
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post #3444 of 41029
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by illphillip View Post

laugh.gif

Dude, you're lost. And talking in circles to completely ignore my point.

Where did I mention Maynard? Nowhere. And if I'm living in the past, you're living in the future, because today, Cub is not the #1/2 contender at FW.

Cub hasn't beaten anyone, IMO, that legitimately warrants a title shot. Or a #1/2 contender position. And it's no travesty. Period.

He hasn't beaten anyone Top 5. He's actually 0-1 against the Top 5 right now. Dudes are really hyped off Stephens and Siver like that? HA!

I've explained it as clearly as possible. But I'll do it again just for you.

When you fight at the top of the division, consistently against the best, and lose close fights, you don't free fall out of the top of the division.

Guys like JDS, Bendo, Gil, Barao, Lawler, even Anderson were/are all still up there amidst their loses.

Cub is working his way up to that. But hasn't beaten, or even FOUGHT for that matter, anyone that warrants a title shot.

You list Cerrone's loses. But he's at least fought the best. He fought all the guys at the top of the division. Cub lost to Lamas. Is somehow ranked ahead of him.

So I'm assuming you have Lamas ranked above Cub? OK.

**** ain't that complicated as to why Frankie is ranked ahead of him. This is actually the first I've heard of anyone even having an issue with it. But there's always one laugh.gif

Best way to settle that is to have them fight.

Best thing you said is the last sentence :lol

 

You accuse me of being lost and talking in circles but look at what you just posted :rollin 

 

Dustin and Conor will be epic. The hype will be epic

post #3445 of 41029
Thread Starter 
post #3446 of 41029

Khabib tore the meniscus in his right knee and needs surgery. He should be out until January. Wonder what they do with Cerrone since he wants to fight again soon and all of the top guys are booked.

post #3447 of 41029
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyzPhan View Post
 

Khabib tore the meniscus in his right knee and needs surgery. He should be out until January. Wonder what they do with Cerrone since he wants to fight again soon and all of the top guys are booked.


Tough luck, he'll have to wait it out for Khabib or fight the winner of Thomson/Green perhaps or even Bendo/RDA

post #3448 of 41029
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyzPhan View Post

Poirier vs McGregor set for UFC 178. 
War Diamond. I'm probably the only one. Lonely island.
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post #3449 of 41029
Thread Starter 

I'm pretty sure it's split pretty evenly for Diamond and Conor. I'm rooting for Diamond, seems like a really cool dude.

post #3450 of 41029
Quote:
Originally Posted by illphillip View Post

Level of quality in their opponents is not remotely the same. You're fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

To make it seem like Frankie being ranked above Cub is some travesty because of a "streak" is ridiculous to me.

Even now, the term "streak" is getting thrown around left and right as opposed to "he beat ____ who is at the top of the division.

If you're not an established contender, which I think we can safely say Frankie is and has been for some time now, then you need to earn that.

Pretty much everyone who gets a shot at the title is on some kind of "streak", but beating some guys at the TOP of the division should be a part of that for you to get a shot. And I'm not sure Cub or Cerrone has done that yet.

Youre right but neither has Frankie.

Anyways its all irrelevant. McGreGoat gonna get the next shot after mopping Dustin smokin.gif
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