Where do Dirk and KG end up in the pantheon of All-Time Best PFs?

japanair21

japanair21

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I think we're finally at the point where we can finally talk about where these guys legacies have finished. KG seems to be a bit more done than Dirk, but both guys are clearly past their primes, not nearly as fresh as they used to be, and are in their twilights.

I'm not mentioning Duncan in this conversation because there's no doubt that he's on top of the mountain. He's #1. He will be #1 for quite a while.

Dirk currently sits at 13th All-Time in scoring, and is eyeing the Top 10 before the end of the year. 1x MVP. 1x Finals MVP. 11x All-Star. 4x All-NBA First Team. 12x All-NBA Team.

KG currently sits at 15th All-Time in scoring, 10th All-Time in rebounds, 16th All-Time in steals, 18th All-Time in blocks. 1x NBA Champion. 1x NBA MVP. 1x DPOY. 15x All-Star. 4x All-NBA First Team. 9x All-NBA Team. 9x All-Defensive First Team. 12x All-Defensive Team.

Now, I firmly believe the Top-Five consists of the three aforementioned men, Barkley, and Malone. But where do KG and Dirk fit in between those guys? And who goes above who between Dirk and KG?

KG was always the more well-rounded player, and a hell of a defender for the majority of his career. But Dirk won basketball games, and lead his team whenever they succeeded. Both lost and won in the Finals, yet one of the two has a Finals MVP (A very well deserved one). Something I think should hold some weight is that Dirk never left his team, and never teamed up with anyone to win anything.

And in terms of the other guys in the conversation...

Sir Charles finished 23rd All-Time in scoring, 22nd All-Time in steals, and 18th All-Time in rebounds. 1x MVP. 11x All-Star. 5x All-NBA First Team. 11x All-NBA Team.

The Mailman finished 2nd All-Time in scoring, 6th All-Time in rebounds, and 10th in steals. 2x MVP. 14x All-Star. 11x All-NBA First Team. 13x All-NBA Team. 3x All-Defensive First Team. 4x All-Defensive Team.

If I had to choose an order...

1) Tim Duncan
2) Karl Malone
3) Dirk Nowitzki
4) Kevin Garnett
5) Charles Barkley

Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?
 
I don't even look forward to this because KG is my dude among dudes and I know rings will be that deciding factor for those that just don't know....

Only guy I'm taking ahead of him is Duncan even though head-to-head I feel KG got the better of the Timmy in their heyday....Based upon only the individual, of course.
 
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I don't think Dirk belongs in top 5 all time, dude was a defensive liability to say the least.  
 
I remember when this argument would rustle my Jimmies.

I like KG.

One of the best help defenders in NBA history, durable and just beast.

However during his prime with the game on line dude was passing it to the like of Trenton Hassell with the game on the line instead of taking the big shot.

Damn near everytime DIrk saw dude he absolutely fried him.

I'd not being biased it probably goes 1. Tim 2. Mailman 3. Dirk 4. KG 5. Chuck.

But I'd take Dirk over all them except Timmy. Dirk in his prime was a guaranteed playoff birth, carried to team to a championship pretty much solo dolo and went through the best players in the NBA at that time to do it.

Dirk took a team that started Adrian Griffen and Erick Dampier to the Finals.
 
The one consensus should be Timmy. It sucks as fans of KG, Dirk or Malone (any out there?), but there's just no real argument available.

The one I would have in favor of KG over the others is defense. Who is to say that because KG didn't have the buzzer beater shots that he didn't have the clutch gene? Albeit, his was defensive.

In an offensive world, where it's very easy to see who scores points and at what point they do score those points is paramount, what about the defensive stops and all around game that even gave those "putrid" Timberwolves a chance at winning the game come into play?

It's hard to open the mind to that facet, but it's not surprising to me that a defensive minded KG was able to mold a winner out of the offensive laden games of the Pierce's and Allen's of the NBA. Lots of things are lost at face value and defense and leadership are some of them. KG just about reigns supreme in those aspects. Hard to give the same all around outlook to anyone else on this list.
 
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651akathePaul said:
The one consensus should be Timmy. It sucks as fans of KG, Dirk or Malone (any out there?), but there's just no real argument available.

The one I would have in favor of KG over the others is defense. Who is to say that because KG didn't have the buzzer beater shots that he didn't have the clutch gene? Albeit, his was defensive.

In an offensive world, where it's very easy to see who scores points and at what point they do score those points is paramount, what about the defensive stops and all around game that even gave those "putrid" Timberwolves a chance at winning the game come into play?

It's hard to open the mind to that facet, but it's not surprising to me that a defensive minded KG was able to mold a winner out of the offensive laden games of the Pierce's and Allen's of the NBA. Lots of things are lost at face value and defense and leadership are some of them. KG just about reigns supreme in those aspects. Hard to give the same all around outlook to anyone else on this list.
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It always frustrated me that ppl never seemed to notice how horrible players like Dirk and Nash were on defense.  KG to me in his prime was the most complete pf in the game.  Overall, I have to put Duncan #1 but I would probably have KG #2 over Malone even tho Malone was a better scorer and just the more lethal offensive player.  
 
ballatician said:
651akathePaul said:
The one consensus should be Timmy. It sucks as fans of KG, Dirk or Malone (any out there?), but there's just no real argument available.


The one I would have in favor of KG over the others is defense. Who is to say that because KG didn't have the buzzer beater shots that he didn't have the clutch gene? Albeit, his was defensive.


In an offensive world, where it's very easy to see who scores points and at what point they do score those points is paramount, what about the defensive stops and all around game that even gave those "putrid" Timberwolves a chance at winning the game come into play?


It's hard to open the mind to that facet, but it's not surprising to me that a defensive minded KG was able to mold a winner out of the offensive laden games of the Pierce's and Allen's of the NBA. Lots of things are lost at face value and defense and leadership are some of them. KG just about reigns supreme in those aspects. Hard to give the same all around outlook to anyone else on this list.
Click to expand...

It always frustrated me that ppl never seemed to notice how horrible players like Dirk and Nash were on defense.  KG to me in his prime was the most complete pf in the game.  Overall, I have to put Duncan #1 but I would probably have KG #2 over Malone even tho Malone was a better scorer and just the more lethal offensive player.  
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You obviously didn't watch Dirk after 2005 if you think he was horrible on defense.

When the hell did KG "lock someone" up? Ever at any point in time in his career?
 
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Where the hell is KG's magical leadership right now?

The Mavs are in an infinetly tougher conference and even with the injuries I'd still take Nets roster over the Mavs.

The Nets are a joke and the Mavs are competitive. That's what you get with Dirk.

If he can play you are winning 50 games.
 
SneakerPro said:
You obviously didn't watch Dirk after 2005 if you think he was horrible on defense.

When the hell did KG "lock someone" up? Ever at any point in time in his career?
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How many times has KG gotten nba all defensive team honors?  12

How many times for Dirk? 0
 
SneakerPro said:
I remember when this argument would rustle my Jimmies.
Click to expand...



Apparently, it still does...



[quote name="SneakerPro"]You obviously didn't watch Dirk after 2005 if you think he was horrible on defense.

When the hell did KG "lock someone" up? Ever at any point in time in his career?[/QUOTE]

[quote name="SneakerPro"]Where the hell is KG's magical leadership right now?[/QUOTE]
 
651akathePaul said:
SneakerPro said:
I remember when this argument would rustle my Jimmies.
Click to expand...



Apparently, it still does...



[quote name="SneakerPro"]You obviously didn't watch Dirk after 2005 if you think he was horrible on defense.

When the hell did KG "lock someone" up? Ever at any point in time in his career?
Click to expand...

[quote name="SneakerPro"]Where the hell is KG's magical leadership right now?[/QUOTE][/quote]
ballatician said:
SneakerPro said:
You obviously didn't watch Dirk after 2005 if you think he was horrible on defense.


When the hell did KG "lock someone" up? Ever at any point in time in his career?
Click to expand...

How many times has KG gotten nba all defensive team honors?  12

How many times for Dirk? 0
Click to expand...

Repped.
 
Behind Tim Duncan. And I just like Dirk more so I'm a go with Dirk for 100 OP.
 
Hyper said:
SneakerPro said:
Damn near everytime DIrk saw dude he absolutely fried him.
Click to expand...

This is simply not true, at all.

View media item 731643
He did get the better of him for those 3 games in the playoffs back in 2002, though.
Click to expand...

Throw out the 6 games of Dirk's rookie year and 2nd year and he pretty much outplayed him every time.

Of the 16 regular season wins KG has head to head 25% of them came in Dirk's rookie year and 2nd year when he wasn't even a full time starter yet and not nearly in his prime.
 
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You can just admit that you were wrong, its not that serious.

That's like me saying that KG fell out of his prime earlier than Dirk did, so we'll just discount their later H2H match ups.

But I won't, because that's ridiculous.

Neither of them fried anything, they both put up solid numbers against each other.
 
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Dirk. Career playoff averages of 26 and 10. He's revolutionized the PF position. When you need a bucket, you go to dirk and not KG.

And he still has plenty in the tank. KGs been a role player for the past four seasons
 
651akathePaul said:
The one consensus should be Timmy. It sucks as fans of KG, Dirk or Malone (any out there?), but there's just no real argument available.

The one I would have in favor of KG over the others is defense. Who is to say that because KG didn't have the buzzer beater shots that he didn't have the clutch gene? Albeit, his was defensive.

In an offensive world, where it's very easy to see who scores points and at what point they do score those points is paramount, what about the defensive stops and all around game that even gave those "putrid" Timberwolves a chance at winning the game come into play?

It's hard to open the mind to that facet, but it's not surprising to me that a defensive minded KG was able to mold a winner out of the offensive laden games of the Pierce's and Allen's of the NBA. Lots of things are lost at face value and defense and leadership are some of them. KG just about reigns supreme in those aspects. Hard to give the same all around outlook to anyone else on this list.
Click to expand...

:pimp: :pimp:

Thank you for saving the Boston Celtics , KG :pimp:
 
Addict4Sneakers said:
Dirk. Career playoff averages of 26 and 10. He's revolutionized the PF position. When you need a bucket, you go to dirk and not KG.

And he still has plenty in the tank. KGs been a role player for the past four seasons
Click to expand...
Addict4Sneakers said:
Dirk. Career playoff averages of 26 and 10. He's revolutionized the PF position. When you need a bucket, you go to dirk and not KG.

And he still has plenty in the tank. KGs been a role player for the past four seasons
Click to expand...

The past 4 seasons? A role player ? :rofl:

Idk about this season, but KG was NEVER a role player here.
 
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