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Top ten status easy for me. P4l tho...
Where do Dirk and KG end up in the pantheon of All-Time Best PFs?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by japanair21,
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I personally have it
Timmy
KG
Malone
Dirk
Chuck
KG was just too well rounded, he was good to great at everything.
Timmy
KG
Malone
Dirk
Chuck
KG was just too well rounded, he was good to great at everything.
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I will say this, since he won in '11, Dirk has been a shell of himself.
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Dirk. I liken Dirk to another underappreciated player, Rick Barry.
Talbert
Talbert
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Definitely. Chuck is my fave big man of all time though so I'm biased. Wish he got his ring
ballatician
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I got it almost the same as you except I'd have Chuck over Dirk. Chuck's rebounding is what gives him the edge over Dirk Imo
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Chuck
irk. People will rank Dirk higher because of the ring though.
irk. People will rank Dirk higher because of the ring though.
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Timmy
Malone
Chuck
KG
Dirk
Malone
Chuck
KG
Dirk
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This is actually a very interesting topic, because both guys in their own right deserve recognition.
At first I was going to side with KG, because of all the monster stats he put up in this career, but then I remembered how KG was losing for the majority of his career. Besides the MVP year, KG was losing while playing in Minnesota. And everyone knows, KG didn't really start winning basketball games and a championship until he went to Boston, which was later on in his career.
To me--KG put up monster numbers in bad teams. IDK about most people, but that just doesn't sit well with me. It's one thing to put up great numbers on a winning team, but to do that while on a losing team says something else.
Dirk on the other, might have not had more eye-popping numbers as KG, but he was VERY effective and efficient for his team. Granted, Dirk had the better teams and cast throughout his career. Dirk was also the main guy on his team when he won a championship. Sure, you can say KG played a vital role, but many will agree Paul Pierce was the one who got them to that NBA Title in game 6.
Both guys are champions and was a vital part to their teams success, but I have to side with Dirk in terms of who gets ranked on top of the other.
I'm also going to point out one more thing. Dirk was the better player in the playoffs. KG and Dirk played almost the same amount of playoffs games, but Dirk put up much better numbers in the playoffs than KG. That's a BIG point for me.
Here's the proof for anyone wondering: http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=1&p1=nowitdi01&y1=2014&p2=garneke01&y2=2014
Now, if we're talking about 1-on-1 match-up: I'd have to go with KG 10 times out of 10. I just don't see Dirk being able to physically stop KG. Although Dirk did have the better offensive game. Would've been very interesting to see how those two would've fared in a game of 1-on-1.
Also, for the record--I think many of you guys are under selling Karl Malone. IDK if that's because of the age-base in this topic, or you just didn't appreciate rebounding, scoring and pure athletic ability from Karl Malone. The whole John Stockton argument is overly done too. They both equally needed each other. I remember talking about that topic with friends when I was younger.
At first I was going to side with KG, because of all the monster stats he put up in this career, but then I remembered how KG was losing for the majority of his career. Besides the MVP year, KG was losing while playing in Minnesota. And everyone knows, KG didn't really start winning basketball games and a championship until he went to Boston, which was later on in his career.
To me--KG put up monster numbers in bad teams. IDK about most people, but that just doesn't sit well with me. It's one thing to put up great numbers on a winning team, but to do that while on a losing team says something else.
Dirk on the other, might have not had more eye-popping numbers as KG, but he was VERY effective and efficient for his team. Granted, Dirk had the better teams and cast throughout his career. Dirk was also the main guy on his team when he won a championship. Sure, you can say KG played a vital role, but many will agree Paul Pierce was the one who got them to that NBA Title in game 6.
Both guys are champions and was a vital part to their teams success, but I have to side with Dirk in terms of who gets ranked on top of the other.
I'm also going to point out one more thing. Dirk was the better player in the playoffs. KG and Dirk played almost the same amount of playoffs games, but Dirk put up much better numbers in the playoffs than KG. That's a BIG point for me.
Here's the proof for anyone wondering: http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=1&p1=nowitdi01&y1=2014&p2=garneke01&y2=2014
Now, if we're talking about 1-on-1 match-up: I'd have to go with KG 10 times out of 10. I just don't see Dirk being able to physically stop KG. Although Dirk did have the better offensive game. Would've been very interesting to see how those two would've fared in a game of 1-on-1.
Also, for the record--I think many of you guys are under selling Karl Malone. IDK if that's because of the age-base in this topic, or you just didn't appreciate rebounding, scoring and pure athletic ability from Karl Malone. The whole John Stockton argument is overly done too. They both equally needed each other. I remember talking about that topic with friends when I was younger.
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KG was easily the best and most important player on the '08 Celtics.
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Dirk>>KG
KG had all the tools to be the a top 10 all guy but none of the heart. Post-Nash Dirk led that team to a what really pretty easily could have been two-nba championships and two-NBA finals MVP's. He could take over a playoff series in a way KG never could. They both played with lackluster supportong casts but Dirk strapped them on the back and led them to WCF and Final's while KG only got out of the first round and even missed the playoffs in Minnesota.
I can't put KG that high cause I can't think of another superstar in NBA history recently who needed another star to take the big shot for him whether it was Cassell or Pierce. KG is just not a guy you can call a final play for, he's never been built for doing that even those its unexplainable when you think about it.
His well-roundedness just covers up how good he should have been offensively. I'd almost venture to say KG is one of the most overrated superstars of the past twenty years.
My PF rating:
Timmy
Dirk
Barkley
Malone
KG
KG had all the tools to be the a top 10 all guy but none of the heart. Post-Nash Dirk led that team to a what really pretty easily could have been two-nba championships and two-NBA finals MVP's. He could take over a playoff series in a way KG never could. They both played with lackluster supportong casts but Dirk strapped them on the back and led them to WCF and Final's while KG only got out of the first round and even missed the playoffs in Minnesota.
I can't put KG that high cause I can't think of another superstar in NBA history recently who needed another star to take the big shot for him whether it was Cassell or Pierce. KG is just not a guy you can call a final play for, he's never been built for doing that even those its unexplainable when you think about it.
His well-roundedness just covers up how good he should have been offensively. I'd almost venture to say KG is one of the most overrated superstars of the past twenty years.
My PF rating:
Timmy
Dirk
Barkley
Malone
KG
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In 08' he was, but the Finals was mostly Paul Pierce.
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The Celtics' scoring in the Finals was pretty balanced. Pierce averaged 22, Ray averaged 20, KG averaged 18 along with 13 boards, plus you can't put a number on the defensive impact he made.
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Worthy was huge that series too.
Nereyda Vuelve Por Dios
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The list op posted is my opinion but I think KG is third all time. Dirk is great but he has played with talent for a substantial part of his career that it is strange he has only won one chip. KG also has much better defense.
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Outside of Steve Nash who was putting up 15 and 8 in Dallas, Dirk has never played with another HOFer in his prime.
Look back on those teams from 2004-now and tell me who stands out as a true #2 option.
Monta Ellis is the best scorer Dirk has ever played with in his career. Monta Eills
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timmy
malone
dirk
kg
barkley
if dirk won in 06 he would be #2
malone
dirk
kg
barkley
if dirk won in 06 he would be #2
Humbled
formerly whatslosinlike
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I can't emm put KG above 5.
At no point in time in his career could you throw him the ball with the game on the line consistently.
At no point in time in his career could you throw him the ball with the game on the line consistently.
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KG is this era's David Robinson, all of the tools just missing that it factor to put his team over the edge.
stayblessed
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KG while good always seemed a tad overrated to me
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I agree with all of this.
KG absolutely had much better talent around him during his career than Dirk. I've been watching KG and Dirk play since they both entered the league and I can't ever remember watching a close game and expecting KG to get the ball and actually winning it for his team. KG never was that type of player anyway. Dirk on the other hand was. Dirk was just more offensively polished than KG ever was.
I guess KG's defense balances out the margin though. Like I said earlier, it would've been quite a sight to see them both go at it 1-on-1.
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"Outside of Steve Nash."
Yes, outside of one of the best PGs of this generation. KG wishes he played with Nash from '00-'01 to '03-'04. Michael Finley also had two very solid years in '98-'99 & '99-'00 as did Josh Howard in '06-'07 and Jason Terry in '08-'09.
Minnesota KG had Terrell Brandon in '99-'00 & '00-'01 and Sam Cassell in '03-'04 and that's it.
I get the argument for Dirk over KG, I'm not really even arguing against it. To me they're basically equals. But please spare me the quality of teammates argument though, when almost the entire prime of KG was wasted.
Yes, outside of one of the best PGs of this generation. KG wishes he played with Nash from '00-'01 to '03-'04. Michael Finley also had two very solid years in '98-'99 & '99-'00 as did Josh Howard in '06-'07 and Jason Terry in '08-'09.
Minnesota KG had Terrell Brandon in '99-'00 & '00-'01 and Sam Cassell in '03-'04 and that's it.
I get the argument for Dirk over KG, I'm not really even arguing against it. To me they're basically equals. But please spare me the quality of teammates argument though, when almost the entire prime of KG was wasted.
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"Outside of Steve Nash."
Yes, outside of one of the best PGs of this generation. KG wishes he played with Nash from '00-'01 to '03-'04. Michael Finley also had two very solid years in '98-'99 & '99-'00 as did Josh Howard in '06-'07 and Jason Terry in '08-'09.
Minnesota KG had Terrell Brandon in '99-'00 & '00-'01 and Sam Cassell in '03-'04 and that's it.
I get the argument for Dirk over KG, I'm not really even arguing against it. To me they're basically equals. But please spare me the quality of teammates argument though, when almost the entire prime of KG was wasted.
The Steve Nash Dirk played with wasn't the same Steve Nash that played in Phoenix.
Mike Finley was my favorite Mav until he was cut but his prime and Dirks didn't crossover.
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From '01-'04 Nash averaged 16.5 & 8 in 34 minutes on 48/42/90 shooting. 21 PER, TS% a hair under 60%. His assist numbers shot up in the 7SOL offense but besides that when you adjust for pace his numbers really aren't that far off. Dallas Nash was still a really good player.