Citizens revolt in Ukraine vol. live

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Weigh the options, peace with Russia or World police. What are the benefits to history of our intervention vs. the cost of an unstable balance with another world power.

We've lost enough US lives. We have our empire, let them cook until our interests collide with there's.
 
CreateDestroy said:
Rhythm808 said:
CreateDestroy said:
doesn't really matter though... protestors won...
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And now there are new protestors...


also, 


Why did the media and Obama make them out to be peaceful?
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Two reasons:

1. The people of the country wanted to get rid of their president because he didn't represent their interests and was oppressive

2. The president sided with Russia, while the new government will side with the EU.. giving the US more and EU more influence in the region


Another thing to remember is that Crimea is a key warm water port for Russia, this is very important to keep under Russian control longterm, and without the stability of a russia friendly government, Russia had to make sure it's presence in the region was secure.

Anybody who knows about the situation in depth will already know this.
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you really gonna take Peter the Great's foreign policy from the 18th century and apply it to the present day though?

Russia has a warm water port(s) - the olympics were just held in one. Novorossyisk is the major one though.

I see it simply as the people living in Crimea, who happen to be mostly Russian, siding with better economic prospects than Ukraine can offer. Ukraine is a poor country plain and simple and at the end of the day, regular people would rather opt for economic stability rather than a government that has proven to be stably corrupt regardless of who's in power or what type of government structure they set up i.e. parliament or president-oriented.

btw i've been to the ukraine and its shame there's this tug-o-war going on with regular folks getting squeezed. rip to all who died.
 
TeamJordan79 said:
you really gonna take Peter the Great's foreign policy from the 18th century and apply it to the present day though?

Russia has a warm water port(s) - the olympics were just held in one. Novorossyisk is the major one though.

I see it simply as the people living in Crimea, who happen to be mostly Russian, siding with better economic prospects than Ukraine can offer. Ukraine is a poor country plain and simple and at the end of the day, regular people would rather opt for economic stability rather than a government that has proven to be stably corrupt regardless of who's in power or what type of government structure they set up i.e. parliament or president-oriented.

btw i've been to the ukraine and its shame there's this tug-o-war going on with regular folks getting squeezed. rip to all who died.
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You fail to realize that peter the greats' reasoning applies to ancient and modern militaries/economies.
Image how the loss of a single america port (even though we have many) would affect our trade and logistics.

All you listed in your response is reasons why the people of crimea would want to be annexed by Russia... you didn't really give any reasoning behind Russia's actions.
 
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CreateDestroy said:
TeamJordan79 said:
you really gonna take Peter the Great's foreign policy from the 18th century and apply it to the present day though?

Russia has a warm water port(s) - the olympics were just held in one. Novorossyisk is the major one though.

I see it simply as the people living in Crimea, who happen to be mostly Russian, siding with better economic prospects than Ukraine can offer. Ukraine is a poor country plain and simple and at the end of the day, regular people would rather opt for economic stability rather than a government that has proven to be stably corrupt regardless of who's in power or what type of government structure they set up i.e. parliament or president-oriented.

btw i've been to the ukraine and its shame there's this tug-o-war going on with regular folks getting squeezed. rip to all who died.
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You fail to realize that peter the greats' reasoning applies to ancient and modern militaries/economies.
Image how the loss of a single america port (even though we have many) would affect our trade and logistics.

All you listed in your response is reasons why the people of crimea would want to be annexed by Russia... you didn't really give any reasoning behind Russia's actions.
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what reasoning is that? that its always nice to have more land? i can't disagree with that.

Would losing Crimean hurt Ukraine? yes.

Would Russia want to have the Crimea? sure, why wouldn't they.

From Russia's pov, a territory of such strategic importance as Crimea would be welcome and yea they might be viewing this as a great opportunity to regain dominance in the region especially since they are receiving a lot of support from the local population. However, we don't know if Russia is actually invading with ambition to annex. Maybe its actually protecting the region as was requested by the Crimean govt. Three possible scenarios are: status quo, Crimea becomes fully independent or it goes to Russia. Hopefully, they'll have a referendum and decide it by themselves avoiding any armed conflict.
 
Wow man... **** might get really real, really soon.

http://news.sky.com/story/1220272/ukraine-russia-delivers-assault-storm-deadline
 
[h1]Ukraine: Russia Delivers 'Assault Storm' Deadline[/h1]
[h2]Russia's Black Sea Fleet reportedly gives Ukrainian forces until 3am to surrender or face a military assault.[/h2]
4:20pm UK, Monday 03 March 2014

rtr3fznk-1-522x293.jpg

A Ukrainian soldier looks through binoculars near Lyubimovka in Crimea

Russia has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea a deadline of 3am on Tuesday to surrender or face military action after troops seized key installations in the peninsula.

Russia Says China Is Largely "In Agreement" Over Ukraine

The ultimatum came from Alexander Vitko, the commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, which has a base in Crimea where Russian forces are now in control.

According to the agency, it reads: "If they do not surrender before 5am (3am GMT) tomorrow, a real assault will be started against units and divisions of the armed forces across Crimea."

It comes as Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev discussed the situation in Ukraine with US Vice President Joe Biden by telephone on Monday.

Mr Medvedev "declared that it is necessary to protect the interests of all Ukrainian citizens, including residents of Crimea, and citizens of Russia who are located in Ukraine," according to Interfax.

He added that Russia would press ahead with plans to build a bridge linking Russia directly with the Crimea region - providing a vital transport link to the Black Sea peninsula.

Mr Medvedev told deputies the two countries had signed "documents related to a project for construction of a transport corridor across the Kerch Strait" in December, when now-ousted Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych was still in power.

The Russian foreign ministry said Nato criticism of its actions in Crimea "will not help stabilise" the situation in Ukraine.

It said: "We believe that such a position will not help stabilise the situation in Ukraine and only encourages those forces that would like to use the current events to achieve their irresponsible political goals."
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Add in the fact that they just introduced a bill in Russian parliament trying to get permission to annex Crimea and yeah it looks like the situation's just gonna keep escalating :\. Hopefully that ultimatum is just a bluff like the others so far
 
Russia gave Ukraine an ultimatum today....leave Crimea by 3 AM or we'll start killing you. 
 
Russia is doing the smartest thing for it's longterm defense strategy/regional influence...

Maintaining a military base that was contracted through a previous fallen regime

crimea = Russian guantanimo bay
 
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KALIINIGRAD, March 03. /ITAR-TASS/. More than 3,500 servicemen of the Russian Baltic Fleet are taking part in the tactical exercise of coast guard troops on a test-site in the Kaliningrad region on Russia's Baltic coast in the framework of a surprise inspection of combat readiness of troops and ammunition of the Western and Central Military District.

More than 450 units of military hardware, including personnel armored carriers BMP-2, tanks T-72, self-propelled artillery installations and communication facilities, are taking part in the large-scale exercise, Chief of the public relations department of the press service of the Western Military District Captain 2nd rank Vladimir Matveyev told Itar-Tass on Monday.

The coast guard troops which had marched many kilometers from places where they are permanently stationed have practiced defense and offensive operations to improve their skills in handling conventional armaments and hardware, maneuvering on a battle field and in the construction of fortifications. During the tactic exercise the troops have complied with the assigned norms in shooting, tactical , engineering and special training under conditions which maximally resembled a battle field, Matveyev said.

The specifics of the exercise was that servicemen of motor-rifle regiments had practiced defense and offensive operations under conditions of radio and electronic blockade, enforced by a presumed adversary, artillery fire and air strikes, Matveyev added.

In the final leg of the exercise, the servicemen will practice combat shooting from all kinds of firearms and grenade launchers at targets which imitate caterpillar and cross-country vehicles and live manpower.

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/721751

nerd.gif
 
Rhythm808 said:
Russia gave Ukraine an ultimatum today....leave Crimea by 3 AM or we'll start killing you. 
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media fanning the flame :smh:

Russian Defense Ministry dismisses Ukraine ultimatum reports as ‘total nonsense’

Media reports about an alleged Russian ultimatum made to the Ukrainian armed forces in Crimea are “total nonsense,” a spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry said.

He said that no ultimatum had been made to the Ukrainian forces, Interfax reports.

“We have become accustomed to the daily accusations by the Ukrainian media of carrying out some sort of military actions against our Ukrainian colleagues," Russian Black Sea Fleet representative said, adding that “those who want to pit us against each other in the Crimea won’t succeed.”

“There’s nothing new about such disinformation. It’s clear who is behind this. Those ‘puppeteers’ have been unable to come up with anything new since Yugoslavia, Iraq and Syria,” he added.

Also, a source in the Russian Defense Ministry told RT that they are unaware of any Russian ultimatum toward the Ukrainian forces in Crimea.

The source revealed that they had only heard about the alleged ultimatum from a report by Interfax-Ukraine news agency.

“We’re interested in keeping friendly relations with the people of Ukraine and in preserving stability,” the source told RT.
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It's almost amusing how increasingly contradictory the reporting is getting between RT and Western media 8)
 
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VICE with boots on the ground already :wow: :smokin


they did a good job of summarizing whats going on so far


 
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TeamJordan79 said:
Rhythm808 said:
Russia gave Ukraine an ultimatum today....leave Crimea by 3 AM or we'll start killing you. 
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media fanning the flame :smh:

Russian Defense Ministry dismisses Ukraine ultimatum reports as ‘total nonsense’

Media reports about an alleged Russian ultimatum made to the Ukrainian armed forces in Crimea are “total nonsense,” a spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry said.

He said that no ultimatum had been made to the Ukrainian forces, Interfax reports.

“We have become accustomed to the daily accusations by the Ukrainian media of carrying out some sort of military actions against our Ukrainian colleagues," Russian Black Sea Fleet representative said, adding that “those who want to pit us against each other in the Crimea won’t succeed.”

“There’s nothing new about such disinformation. It’s clear who is behind this. Those ‘puppeteers’ have been unable to come up with anything new since Yugoslavia, Iraq and Syria,” he added.

Also, a source in the Russian Defense Ministry told RT that they are unaware of any Russian ultimatum toward the Ukrainian forces in Crimea.

The source revealed that they had only heard about the alleged ultimatum from a report by Interfax-Ukraine news agency.

“We’re interested in keeping friendly relations with the people of Ukraine and in preserving stability,” the source told RT.
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It's almost amusing how increasingly contradictory the reporting is getting between RT and Western media 8)
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two different extremes really
 
I am completely against a US or EU war. This should be the time for soft power to utterly triumph. If the US, UK, Germany and the rest of the G7 and its allies should freeze out Russian banking, the West may win without a shot being fired.
 




no dambs given...considering their funding comes directly from the Russian government
 
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I am no naive peacenik. I know that international relations and most domestic politics, for that matter, hinge on balances of power. However, diplomacy must rule this particular day.

The US must not give implicit or explicit military aid to Ukraine. Putin should leave the Crimea and the West must give this proud man a truly face saving out. The Ukraine should have a constitutional convention and it should embrace federalism and allow Eastern and Crimean Ukrainian their Russian identities and other Ukrainians should be permitted to seek closer relations with Europe.

As a farmer and as a former chicken-hawk, I now believe that the manliest thing one can do in such a situation is to firmly shake the hand of the hostile neighbor and work to build a sturdy and lasting fence between the abutting estates.
 
CreateDestroy said:
That's cool and all... but I want to talk about how tearing down the government/political structure will not work in the favor of ukraine in the long run.. especially with it being in russian interest to control the direction of any new government
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predicted this 2 weeks ago
 
I have generally been wary of the calls for U.S. intervention in any and every conflict around the world. But this is different. The crisis in Ukraine is the most significant geopolitical problem since the Cold War. Unlike many of the tragic ethnic and civil wars that have bubbled up over the past three decades, this one involves a great global power, Russia, and thus can and will have far-reaching consequences. And it involves a great global principle: whether national boundaries can be changed by brute force. If it becomes acceptable to do so, what will happen in Asia, where there are dozens of contested boundaries — and several great powers that want to remake them?

Obama must rally the world, push the Europeans and negotiate with the Russians. In this crisis, the United States truly is the indispensable nation.

-Fareed Zakaria

just sharing
 
Russian troops massing along Ukraines eastern border http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/world/europe/ukraine.html?_r=0

The German Chancellor Merkel who's usually one to be peacemaker and find common ground between Russia and Europe, gave a strong statement against the idea of a Russian invasion and about the consequences it would bring economically and diplomatically between the EU and Russia. After initially resisting,Merkel's starting to get behind the push for sanctions against Russia. The Russian troops have been massing near parts of the Russian speaking East that used to be part of Russia. Looks like Putin's not content with Crimea just yet ,the next few weeks should be interesting in regards to how the US and EU are going to react and if this isn't anything more than Putin posturing.
 
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around 95.5% voted in favor of secession.

it'd be funny now if Russia was like nah we don't really need you Crimea.

8)
 
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