The Mecca in Decline: Why doesn’t New York City produce elite NBA talent like it used to? (article)

jjs07

jjs07

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*See post 14 for the article...




There's a side discussion going on in the Lenny Cooke thread, but I think it's a great question. NYC has such a rich history with the sport. However, what's the reason why they haven't turned out more NBA talent as of late? Before Lance Stephenson started doing his thing, the last guy was Ron Artest. It's been a dry spell, IMO, and I'm not sure what the reason is for it....
 
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Few main factors in my opinion (NYC native):

1. Kids have a lot more options these days...back in the day (70/80's) NYC was a war zone and communities didn't have many options for kids aside from basketball. Nowadays kids even in the hood have more options and avenus open to them. Other sports, music/the arts, fashion etc., they are less closed off to their neighborhood and have more options of stuff to do. This means basketball isn't viewed as the only way to make it out the hood anymore.
2. http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-is-making-the-nba-for-rich-kids-ask-seth-stephens-1458899240
It helps to have money to be good at basketball. Let's be honest, we are talking mainly about black kids here. It's really expensive to raise a family in NYC nowadays unless you have a million dollar. Those black families with money have generally moved elsewhere and the a lot of the black population is mired in poverty. The black middle class in this city really has been relegated to pockets of Queens/Brooklyn but a lot of them have moved elsewhere.
3. Schools. PSAL/Catholic schools hoops in NYC have been decimated. Elite kids from NYC go to prep schools or catholic schools in Jersey, they rarely stay at home anymore (too many distractions bad influence for NYC kids with hype). Some of the most storied programs are on their last legs. Programs like Rice/Power Memorial/Christ the King. etc aren't around or dying out. Public school reform in NYC really reshaped the athletic forum's as there aren't these 4,000 student schools anymore, lots of charter schools etc. that don't have that same focus on sports or whatever.


Even still, we have a pretty good roster starting 5 if it comes down to it.
G- Kemba
G- Lance
F- Harkless/Villuenva/F. Garcia (weak position)
PF- Taj
C- Joakim
 
For those that's never been or don't live in the area, NYC aint what it was. There's a lot more options, academically and sports wise.

It's a long answer tho imo.
 
Another point I want to make:

- Recruiting has developed so much as well. Being in the capital for media has always led NYC ballers to being overrated. AS recruiting became smarter and developed more, we have gained more perspective. A lot of this has to do with the internet.
- NYC ball (east coast basketball) in a way was fabled because of how progressive/groudbreaking it was back in the day. Guys like earl manigault, earl monroe, tiny archibald all played basketball with a style that led to the development of the "city game," the one-on-one play, the handles etc. That game which was once really confined to a select few nexuses has been spread all over the country with the introduction of media. Now a white kid in oregon only has to watch a couple AND1 videos and he can have AI like handles (assuming his coordination is there obviously). Skill sets that were once thought to be isolated to certain areas (the myth of the NYC PG) have been disseminated across the world in a way that wasn't present before.

Basketball is simply a global game now.
 
two of the parks i grew up playing basketball on were turned into skate parks. need i say more?
 
AMP - you're killing it, bro. Good insight.

I mean, you don't hear much of anything about Riverside Church or even Gauchos (Westchester), to some extent.
 
They turned the basketball courts into skate parks because no one played basketball. These parks we're packed everyday once it was nice out. Get there too late and your "next" will never come.
 
I mean there are tons of NYC/Long Island/Westchester/upstate area dudes who make it pro.  Just none of them are really stars right now.  But look around it's not like every other city is pumping out all-stars either.  It's just the nature of things. Back in the 60s/70s the best basketball was being played in New York/East Coast, so most of the players making the league came from those regions because that's where attention was focused.  Now it's a level playing field across the board so you have more players from Alaska making teams because they're finally actually playing high level basketball there and people have the social media means to see those players whereas in the past they would have been largely ignored and passed over for kids from big name schools/cities.
 
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LosALMIGHTY said:
They turned the basketball courts into skate parks because no one played basketball. These parks we're packed everyday once it was nice out. Get there too late and your "next" will never come.
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Can't wait for the summer 
pimp.gif
 
This is a GREAT read...

The Mecca in Decline
Why doesn’t New York City produce elite NBA talent like it used to?

They sit in a Harlem church basement or a south Brooklyn deli, at an elite high school in Queens or a failing middle school on the Lower East Side, near Madison Square Garden or the Cage or the Rucker or some other calcified shrine, and they explain what their city has lost.

Once, New York was home to more basketball talent than any other city on the planet. No more. As for what changed, theories vary. An older scout says it’s all about attitude. A younger coach says they only lack muscle. Some of the NBA’s remaining New Yorkers blame the city’s emphasis on skills of dwindling value to today’s teams. Others cite greed, poverty, overcrowding, or — why not? — video games, social media, and YouTube. It’s all flailing guesswork aimed at making sense of a decline no one saw coming but everyone watched happen. And though the explanations differ, on the central point, they all agree.

New York is no longer the greatest basketball city on earth. Right now, it’s not even close.

When we talk about the decline of New York City basketball, we’re not talking about the Knicks’ interminable incompetence or the Nets’ lavish and misguided efforts to build a contender. We’re talking about the city’s footprint in the NBA: Years ago, New York’s playgrounds and high schools served as the most fertile breeding ground for the game’s elite. Today, you’re just as likely to become a star if you’re born in Los Angeles, Toronto, or Raleigh.
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Rest of Article in Link

I'm going to change the thread title to reflect the article I just posted...
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Some of the highlights...

Konchalski says there are myriad reasons for the city’s decline. No. 1: “Kids today just aren’t proud to play New York City basketball. Before, there was a sense of pride. Now, they still mouth the words, but it’s not really there. They don’t believe it. If they did believe it, they wouldn’t cross the river and go play in Jersey.”
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All this, Konchalski says, boils down to pride. If New York kids thought there was value in representing New York City, they would never cross the river. They would never go to South Kent, in Connecticut, where Orlando Magic forward and Queens native Maurice Harkless transferred after his junior year at Forest Hills High, and they damn sure wouldn’t go to South Florida’s IMG Academy, where ESPN’s second-ranked New Yorker in this year’s high school class, Chris McCullough, just finished his senior year. They would stay. They would develop. And then they would go to college and the NBA, and they would make sure the words “New York City” were shown every time their bio flashed across a television screen.
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New York has never produced football talent. Same for baseball. The reason, cited for decades: no space. Today, you’re starting to hear the same argument come up with regard to basketball. Other places have space, and space can be filled with regulation-size courts and hangarlike weight rooms, few of which can be found in New York.

“We go play the tournament in Vegas,” says Ted Smith, executive director of New Heights, one of New York’s top AAU programs. “We pull up into the school that hosts, we walk inside, and you see the kids’ eyes go wide. They’re looking all around, taking it all in. They’re like, ‘This is a high school gym? Are you serious?’”
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Macky Bergman has another theory. He’s sitting on a bench at Cascades High School on the Lower East Side, a few minutes before his Steady Buckets youth team arrives for practice. Just in front of him is a court that’s maybe 50 feet long and 35 feet wide (standard is 84 by 50), a gym with ceilings so low he advises his players not to shoot. “You shoot a jumper in here, you’re either scraping the ceiling with it, or you’re shooting a line drive and messing up your form. So we just do a lot of ballhandling.”

But that stuff doesn’t really matter, he says. Sure, it would be nice if their court were state-of-the-art, if the kids could hop in their cars and get up a few shots on a rainy day, but they should be fine with what they’ve got. No, the key, Bergman says, is not resources and not space, but culture. And not even basketball culture. Football culture.

Hear him out. “So where are the best players coming from?” he asks. “They’re coming from the South. They’re coming from Florida, Texas, Georgia, California. And what do they do in those states? They play football. I mean, all you have to do is look at Jersey. In Jersey, high school football matters. In New York, it doesn’t. And who’s got the best basketball players? Jersey.”

He’s not done: “Let’s just keep it in New York. Most of the best basketball teams are at Catholic schools. Catholic schools play football. Who’s the best public school for football? Lincoln. Who’s the best public school for basketball? Lincoln.”

The correlation is undeniable. The states that produce the most football players also produce the most basketball players.6 And that leads Bergman to his point. “It’s all about the weights,” he says. “Football schools have weight rooms. They have coaches who understand that lifting is important. They have parents who understand that lifting is important. The kids themselves get it. Everyone gets it. Here, no one gets it.”
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These debates aren’t confined to the five boroughs. On a Tuesday morning in Atlanta, Chicago Bulls big men Joakim Noah and Taj Gibson sit in the Hawks’ visiting locker room and float a few theories of their own. “It’s the distractions,” says Noah. “That’s what gets people. You can do anything in New York — anything. It’s so easy to do anything other than play basketball.”

Gibson thinks the city’s obsession with developing guards hinders the growth of big men like himself and Noah. “It’s impossible to find a team — AAU, school, whatever — that’s not completely guard-oriented,” says Gibson. “Every practice is about ballhandling. In every game, every play keeps the ball in the guards’ hands.” Both Gibson and Noah left the city — Gibson for Southern California, Noah for New Jersey. Orlando’s Maurice Harkless did the same, leaving home in Queens to finish high school in Connecticut. “It’s one of the best decisions I ever made,” Harkless says by phone. “It’s so easy to get caught up in your own hype in New York. So many people want a piece of you. If you get away from that, you can focus on basketball.”

In Connecticut, Harkless says, “If I wanted to go to the gym by myself and get some shots up, I could do that. That’s not something I could do before I left.” Those factors make sense. But for his final point in favor of the move, Harkless makes a statement that would have sounded like sacrilege a few decades ago. “I needed better competition,” he says. Playing in New York’s PSAL, he admits, “I wasn’t getting challenged. The competition just wasn’t that good.”
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"Today, you’re just as likely to become a star if you’re born in Los Angeles, Toronto, or Raleigh."


sound about right, we kick out around here. :pimp:


Heart and guard play is what we do.
 
Damn. The best player in NYC plays on a makeshift bball court for his games? :lol:

Dude said Jersey like it's some far off distant land smh
 
Another interesting point....Stephon Marbury could be considered the best NYC basketball player over the last 25 years.
 
JJs07 said:
Another interesting point....Stephon Marbury could be considered the best NYC basketball player over the last 25 years.
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No doubt about it.

I could see why some people would consider this a joke, but Marbury was one Hell of a player back in his prime. It wasn't until the tailend of his career where things went poorly for him.

I believe his career avg's are 20 and 8. That's pretty solid for a PG in the NBA.
 
JJs07 said:
Another interesting point....Stephon Marbury could be considered the best NYC basketball player over the last 25 years.
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damn thats crazy.

like the article said, when a cat would say hes from NY it ment something. You already figured his game, heart, can handle it, score and lock up. Nowadays, if a cat says hes from NY my first thought is hes terrible.
 
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ballhandling and driving to the lane with abandon was always the nyc game - once the and1 tapes starting circulating, it was a wrap. when i see drose and wade (prime) play, i see nyc players. also nyc has alot of courts, but mostly outdoors. fall/'winter, we lose the majority of those while kids from other regions can play anywhere. marbury was nice and was nice in the league, he went off the rails attitude-wise, but can't doubt his ability. kenny anderson imo is the best ever guard from nyc. someone like kareem is probably best overall

also a lot of the elite kids either go to a cushy prep school or go to the burbs or jersey. noah got mvp nods last year and went to poly prep (bk). cooke was as good a talent as anyone in his calss and went to tappan (nj). hodge was acc player of the year few years back. kemba destroyed. lance is on verge of all-star. nyc is do alright for "lean times"
 
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