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someone PLEASE explain to me how making potential NBA players stay in college is a good thing - Page 4

post #91 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh View Post

Not allowing a minor vs is an adult is completely different, two cartels meeting in order to restrict the economic mobility of a class of people is an anti trust issues, the popularity of college sports is the only thing that prevents it from being challenged in court.
For a professional athlete every year they are getting paid is crucial, especially for a cap sport with a rookie scale, the longer they aren't paid professionals the farther they from free agency the farther they are from market value fro services.

I think Kevin Garnett made something like 70 million dollars more in career earnings than Tim Duncan.

Its about money.
at the expense and exploitation of the athletes, exploitation isn't right no matter how much you like college basketball.

What I mean by morally is:

If you believe in fairness, liberty and the rule of law the NCAA is an affront to all of these things. period.

Its a modern day plantation and it should no longer be allowed to exist in its current form.

Pretty much sums it up

NCAA is a joke
post #92 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZwildcats View Post

I think it increases the quality of the players entering the NBA, although dudes like Kobe and LBJ kinda make that theory look bad laugh.gif

This argument would the equivalent to people comparing everyday college dropouts to Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.

 

Not even close to the same thing. :lol

 

Shades of Michael Scott.

 

 

Quote:
In stark contrast to popular myth, this Article finds that players drafted straight out of high school are not only likely to do well in the NBA, but are likely to become better players than any other age group entering the league. In fact, on average, these players perform better in every major statistical category than does the average NBA player or the average NBA player of any age cohort. Beyond excellence in performance, high school players can also earn substantially more over the course of their NBA careers, largely due to the brief, but steep career earnings-curve of professional basketball players, as well as collectively-bargained labor conditions concerning free agency. Strikingly, players who bypass college may earn as much as $100 million more over the course of their careers than had they earned a college diploma.

 

KG, Kobe, Jermaine O'Neal, T-Mac, Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Tyson Chandler, Amare, LeBron, Kendrick Perkins, Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Big Al, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Andrew Bynum, Monta Ellis, Lou Williams, Andray Blatche, Amir Johnson, all had/having long and productive careers.

post #93 of 109

^ if the policy goes to 20 years old or 2 years removed from high school or whatever.. you have to include the 1 and done guys to the that list

post #94 of 109

P4L

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#TAN #LOT


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post #95 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZwildcats View Post
 

I think it increases the quality of the players entering the NBA, although dudes like Kobe and LBJ kinda make that theory look bad :lol

This.

 

And those guys are a rare breed. A lot of one and done guys go to the league and flop.  

surrounded by smart phones and dumb people

 

delusional Laker/Hurricane fan

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surrounded by smart phones and dumb people

 

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post #96 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometownhero View Post

This.

And those guys are a rare breed. A lot of one and done guys go to the league and flop.  

A lot of juniors do as well.

The bottom line is that this **** isn't an exact science. Toying with the age limit isn't going to have any real effect on the quality of the NBA.

The real change needs to begin with the youth developmental stages. We need to take a real look at the summer circuit and camps. The "business" of basketball is beginning way to early and a lot of kids have gotten lost in the shuffle. You got a lot of so called AAU coaches and street agents that really don't give a **** about kids unless they can see what's in it for them in the long run. Its a dirty game that needs to be cleaned up. Basketball wise...a good portion of these dudes futures depend on an AAU system where they pretty much roll the ball out there and run wild. A lot of the "development" a lot of people think goes on at the college level needs to start much earlier. That's why you have all these 6'10+ big men with 40 inch verticals but wouldn't know a post move if it hit em in the face. That's why you have all these athletic wings with JR Smith syndrome that will dunk on you and bomb away from deep but can't spell "mid range".

Add in this YouTube highlight reel era that even 2 and 3 star prospects have...and **** is all bad. When they put this rule in...chances are there won't be a single thing we'll be able to identify and say " his rule helped the league" or "this rule helped the kids".

That extra year of school isn't going to turn an Andrew Wiggins into Kobe Bryant and its not going to turn a Daniel Orton into a serviceable big man. Development is PURELY up to that individual at that point. Deandre Jordan could have been Daniel Orton. He was a disappointing freshman that left too early they said...and a 2nd re pick at that. He put in the work to be what he is right now. Not Texas A&M.
post #97 of 109

^ I could not agree with you more. AAU and the ESPN culture has ruined fundamentals terribly.

#TAN #LOT


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http://niketalk.com/t/526399/beh235-collection-sneaker-storytellers 
 

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#TAN #LOT


The space between her ears is greater than the space between her legs....
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post #98 of 109
josh shelby out of the league yet?
post #99 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometownhero View Post

This.

And those guys are a rare breed. A lot of one and done guys go to the league and flop.  

not true.

High school draft guys were generally more safer picks than college guys.

People think its just Kobe Lebron, KG, but they forget the Monta Ellis, Amir Johnsons, Andray Blatche, C. J. Miles, Lou Williams who also went to have long productive NBA careers.

Some of the bigger busts in the one and done era have stayed multiple years in school, Even Turner, Hasheem Thabeet, Wsley Johnson/
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post #100 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometownhero View Post

This.

And those guys are a rare breed. A lot of one and done guys go to the league and flop.

 



There are alot of guys who go to school and come out and flop as well, Hasheem Thabeet left after his Jr year flopped, 2010-2012 lottery picks Evan that haven't panned out Turner(Jr), Epke Udoh(Jr), Wesley Johnson(Jr) Cole Aldrich(Jr), Derrick Williams(so), Jimmer(Sr), Thomas Robinson(Jr), Harrison Barnes(so) Meyers Len (so)
post #101 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by VICTOR PAGE View Post
 
Quote:
 
A lot of juniors do as well.

The bottom line is that this **** isn't an exact science. Toying with the age limit isn't going to have any real effect on the quality of the NBA.

The real change needs to begin with the youth developmental stages. We need to take a real look at the summer circuit and camps. The "business" of basketball is beginning way to early and a lot of kids have gotten lost in the shuffle. You got a lot of so called AAU coaches and street agents that really don't give a **** about kids unless they can see what's in it for them in the long run. Its a dirty game that needs to be cleaned up. Basketball wise...a good portion of these dudes futures depend on an AAU system where they pretty much roll the ball out there and run wild. A lot of the "development" a lot of people think goes on at the college level needs to start much earlier. That's why you have all these 6'10+ big men with 40 inch verticals but wouldn't know a post move if it hit em in the face. That's why you have all these athletic wings with JR Smith syndrome that will dunk on you and bomb away from deep but can't spell "mid range".

Add in this YouTube highlight reel era that even 2 and 3 star prospects have...and **** is all bad. When they put this rule in...chances are there won't be a single thing we'll be able to identify and say " his rule helped the league" or "this rule helped the kids".

That extra year of school isn't going to turn an Andrew Wiggins into Kobe Bryant and its not going to turn a Daniel Orton into a serviceable big man. Development is PURELY up to that individual at that point. Deandre Jordan could have been Daniel Orton. He was a disappointing freshman that left too early they said...and a 2nd re pick at that. He put in the work to be what he is right now. Not Texas A&M.

I agree but I think I lot of guys would benefit from more coaching before getting to the NBA where it's be good or have a seat next to me. I think Terrence Jones (I know he did 2 years) has finally come around because he wasn't ready and got that extra coaching he needed from being shipped to the d league. Austin Rivers wasn't ready and that's why he averages about 5 points a game. Yeah it's a shame that I heard about that Seventh Woods kid when he was only like 7th grade and that there is a highlight reel of every kid who is half way decent, but if their goal is to make as much money as they can, holding off on the league until they're ready is their best option. No doubt about it that a lot of AAU coaches don't care about the players. But I'm sure the Coach K's and even Calipari's of the world do even if it's only because good players are directly tied to their salaries. 

 

A rookie deal is great compared to a college scholarship, but your second deal worth 10+ million a year as a good or decent player is better than that second deal at the league min after you have been on the bench your whole rookie contract. 

 

Kind of rambled.....my apoligies


Edited by hometownhero - 4/25/14 at 1:20pm

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post #102 of 109
Austin Rivers sucks because he was never that good to begin with. Staying at Duke an extra year was not going to change that
post #103 of 109
Quote:
NBA Prospects staying longer in college means they'll only be a year (2 now) older, which means they'll get out of their rookie deals later in their careers than they should. It puts them closer to their prime and ultimately takes away years off of their career.

When you think about it, you realize that the rule is only affecting players who are legit pro prospects and they aren't getting more NBA ready by staying another year. They don't get better, they just get older. This is only geared towards guys who were / are sure shots and guys who are legit league prospects. The others would be staying minimum two years anyway.

And the myth that players get better by staying in college is hilarious. The lack of talent from the young guys in the NBA (if that's even the case. Some point to the last few drafts. I would disagree. Too early to make a case, but I digress) is not the result of players coming out early but rather because of bad management of teams, and overall players who just aren't that good coming out. Them staying in school is not going to change that. For instance, what would Bennet, Rivers, McLemore, and others in recent memory gain from staying in school another year?

If there's a player who's a legit league prospect, they are more than likely all they are going to be on the amateur level. Would be hard pressed to find one player who came back after his freshman year and got better. That's important to note because if they're NBA Prospects, evaluating them on the college ranks is no good because what they don't do well and what they need to improve on can't be shown in the college game, it disguises it. Therefore, if a player fresh out of High School and Prep is penned as a legit league prospect, why should he stay? It's not like he's going to get better prepared FOR THE NBA...BY PLAYING IN COLLEGE...that's literally *** backwards.

This rule is so that colleges can make more money off of these high school and amateur stars for more than a year or two. Most of the time these "bust" and young guys that people point to in the league would be bust at 22 just as if they were 18. It doesn't matter. Look at all the young players in the league who are deemed "bust"...almost all of them were really good in college. The issue is that what those players don't do well or can't do well can be hid in college. That, and because they are so highly touted in high school, they are granted an incredibly high usage rate in D1, a usage rate that's going to come way down in the league unless they are KD or someone coming out of college.
post #104 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Marcus View Post

There needs to be a MLB or a European system......hell these players can still opt for Europe outta HS but they don't wanna go through the grind current NBA players w/ Euro backgrounds had to go through 

**** aint easy and most work their way up through the ranks. They don't baby players overseas like they do here.

Overseas isn't all that it is made out to be either. They **** around Americans just because they can. I know personally know people who have left Europe after their teams refused to pay them. Even Brandon Jennings got screwed around by being benched for games with no explanation despite playing well in the previous outing.

For kids to get better and the NBA to improve its overall product, a greater emphasis needs to be placed on grassroots development. Most AAU coaches let their star players go and get by on athleticism only to find out that even at the D1 level you need some sort of skill to stay above water. There's no reason that players can't dribble the ball. It's the first thing you do when you play. Why is Thon Maker able to dribble the rock like a 1, but you have guys around the country that are 3s and 4s that can't dribble and chew gum at the same time. Coaches at the lower levels need to be held accountable for how far a player has come along before he gets to college and then the NBA if he is fortunate.
post #105 of 109
Overseas is dependent on where you play. If you're playing in a lower division club or some small club in Eastern Europe then yea you might face them problems. A top player coming outta HS will prob not have to stoop to that like some of these players whose only option is Ukraine lol.

My main point is that I would like to see that system adopted here. I'm pretty sure Brandon Jennings was being a diva in Italy (think that's where he was at) too...kinda remember reading articles about him back then

Edit: he got paid and he shot 35% in Serie A and euroleague play...I would've limited his minutes too
post #106 of 109
My whole issue is with the "student athlete" front.

Most these one and done cats are only playing college ball because they have to play for a year. If you want to improve the NCAA, it would be a start to get guys that actually want to be there.

Alot of the issues here though fall on crappy gm's. for every can't miss prospect like Kobe or lebron, its alot of guys who don't pan out but get drafted as 3-4 year projects. If you have doubts a guy is going to make it, don't draft him. Its a reason there was no high school players drafted between Moses malone and Kevin garnett.

The guys who are nba ready out of high school are far and inbetween, but if a gm is willing to draft them in the lottery then nothing should block it, If the potential projects get drafted in the late first round or early second round then so be it.

I just don't like the concept of a guy being forced to play somewhere for a year when he has no desire being there and is only there because he's forced to be there. Its a waste of a scholarship as well in my opinion.
post #107 of 109
^It's absolutely a waste of a scholarship for sure.
post #108 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VICTOR PAGE View Post

Austin Rivers sucks because he was never that good to begin with. Staying at Duke an extra year was not going to change that
thiiisss
post #109 of 109
Extra seasons of watching a team struggle against a zone for 30 seconds isn't gonna teach anyone anything.
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