Any Accounting majors/accountants on NT?

lazyj10 · Apr 8, 2014

Of course accounting gigs get a lot of application because in general the profession is one many opt to go into directly out of school.

Then drill down - those who go into Public right away average a couple of years. Industry turnover as a whole is what, 50-something percent? So they studied accounting in college, but don't have a CPA license or enough pubic experience to warrant much and are probably limited in terms of the industry they know most (and I use that lightly).

To be frank, the work ethic you need to have to be largely successful in public is something few people have coming directly out of college. Instead, it's learned over the course of your career and really takes a good 3-4 years. Those who can stick it through senior usually pick it up by then and/or make the decision to leave because it's just not a good fit for what they want to do and what they want out of life.

For my own personal example - this past season I worked the most I'd ever worked and I'd do it again (920+ hours 1/1 - 3/31). It was partly a learning experience taking on another new industry and being a mentor to seniors, but I was also given larger responsibilities for my title and am ultimately being groomed to run part of a practice, so the experience outweighed everything else.

king milaac · Apr 8, 2014

FLYKNITLVR said:
No need to give me props because it sounds like you're doing extremely well for yourself, but I should point out that with your background and age, you're the exception and not the rule. It would be misleading to make people following a similar path assume that they can make that kind of money with nothing more than some Big 4 experience. That said, once you hit your 30's the possibilities are endless. My brother is in his 40's, has 16 or so years of Big 4 experience, and he's pulling in over $1,000 a day as a consultant. And compared to some of his peers with similar experience he's not even making that much. But the flipside of it is that I've seen the sacrifice he's made to reach that point so I know the real story (and it's not a rosy picture as you've painted).

My comment that accountants are a dime a dozen was focused mainly on CPA's without Big 4 experience. I own an accounting business and I routinely get resumes from people with 3-5 years of public practice experience, all of whom are over qualified for the $18/hour position I am hiring for. But the fact that I am getting these resumes en masse tells me that they are indeed a dime a dozen and I will never have a problem filling these positions. So I stick by my statement, especially in the context of my position.

Fair enough. But OP was looking at potentially doing Big 4 + CPA. These are not a dime a dozen. I guarantee anyone with Big 4 + CPA will have to actively manage the amount of head hunter/ recruiter emails and phone calls you get trying to offer you a role for the simple fact that that Big 4 + CPA combo is respected globally. Everyone knows the Big 4 is grueling and it take a special kind of person to work through more than 3 years of it. In fact, more than 70% of my internship starting class at my big 4 firm quit by their 2nd year. By the time I left, which was 4 years, only 5% of my class remained. Big 4 hours are no joke. Sure it's not rocket science but somebody who is capable of going through 60 to 80 hour weeks and multiple busy seasons, that says a lot.......it says that person is serious about their career.

I would also disagree with the statement that CPA's are a dime dozen. Having a CPA is basically a ticket to never being unemployed. I can't tell you how many marketing/finance majors I know that are working admin jobs now.

Majorbread · Apr 8, 2014

denni5themenace said:
currently working at a small audit firm, and i'm miserable. got hired out of college and the firm im at never really hired staff to train before, and mainly focused on grabbing seniors from other firms, and i'm feeling those effects right now. i haven't been challenged to do anything different from when i first started nor have i received any training in areas i want to get into. their idea of "training" consists of following prior year work papers.

i got promoted to senior earlier this year, but am still treated as a staff on engagements im assigned to. i'm 2 tests into my CPA and am having a lot of trouble finding motivation to finish - mainly because this firm has really turned me off on the profession

really contemplating of quitting, focusing on my tests, and applying to another firm, hopefully national or big 4 to revitalize my hunger to do better and challenge myself. i don't want to get stuck at this firm, being okay collecting paychecks, but the thought of applying and interviewing to other places is scary.

Sorry to hear fam but I don't know how much different it would be at a Big 4, might be better served waiting it out there.
Yes they send us to annual week long training but in reality that time is seen as a week off from work where people get hamm'd everynight on their $40-50 meal per diem. :lol:

Most training IMO is in the field, getting your hands dirty and figuring things out when you had no clue as to what was going on prior

301216baller · Apr 8, 2014

King Milaac said:
Fair enough. But OP was looking at potentially doing Big 4 + CPA. These are not a dime a dozen. I guarantee anyone with Big 4 + CPA will have to actively manage the amount of head hunter/ recruiter emails and phone calls you get trying to offer you a role for the simple fact that that Big 4 + CPA combo is respected globally. Everyone knows the Big 4 is grueling and it take a special kind of person to work through more than 3 years of it. In fact, more than 70% of my internship starting class at my big 4 firm quit by their 2nd year. By the time I left, which was 4 years, only 5% of my class remained.

I would also disagree with the statement that CPA's are a dime dozen. Having a CPA is basically a ticket to never being unemployed. I can't tell you how many marketing/finance majors I know that are working admin jobs now.

when I first got into the field my professor told me this and ive been sold on this ever since...but like others said im in it for the money...every accountant I know has said the same thing lol..my mentor has his cpa license, masters in tax, and law degree when I asked him he said off top it was for the money

denni5themenace · Apr 8, 2014

the problem i'm having is that my firm doesn't get good clients. were constantly getting crappy clients (not prepared for the audit) and ****** budgets. a lot of non profit and government clients. i want to be working in other industries.

flyknitlvr · Apr 8, 2014

King Milaac said:
Fair enough. But OP was looking at potentially doing Big 4 + CPA. These are not a dime a dozen. I guarantee anyone with Big 4 + CPA will have to actively manage the amount of head hunter/ recruiter emails and phone calls you get trying to offer you a role for the simple fact that that Big 4 + CPA combo is respected globally. Everyone knows the Big 4 is grueling and it take a special kind of person to work through more than 3 years of it. In fact, more than 70% of my internship starting class at my big 4 firm quit by their 2nd year. By the time I left, which was 4 years, only 5% of my class remained. Big 4 hours are no joke. Sure it's not rocket science but somebody who is capable of going through 60 to 80 hour weeks and multiple busy seasons, that says a lot.......it says that person is serious about their career.

I would also disagree with the statement that CPA's are a dime dozen. Having a CPA is basically a ticket to never being unemployed. I can't tell you how many marketing/finance majors I know that are working admin jobs now.

I am not disagreeing with you. I know an ex-CPA who started a headhunting agency focusing solely on placing CPA's in CFO/controllership roles and he makes money hand over fist. When you reach that level, you are very in demand. The issue is that most people don't reach that level, and unless you are 100% serious about this being what you want to do, you're better off bowing out before you even start because you are going to be miserable every step of the way.

Majorbread · Apr 8, 2014

FLYKNITLVR said:
I am not disagreeing with you. I know an ex-CPA who started a headhunting agency focusing solely on placing CPA's in CFO/controllership roles and he makes money hand over fist. When you reach that level, you are very in demand. The issue is that most people don't reach that level, and unless you are 100% serious about this being what you want to do, you're better off bowing out before you even start because you are going to be miserable every step of the way.

Basically how I feel. Could stay around another 2-3 years but know I would hate myself for it and life is too short.

king milaac · Apr 8, 2014

ModernDarwin said:
Well, done and thanks for being so informative. I've made the career change to accounting and it is always great (and inspiring) to hear about the career path of other people.

I'm a bit older (2 and am about 75% done with a Master of Accountancy program. I did an undergrad in Business Economics. I really never thought I'd be going back to school for accounting. I hated those classes as an undergrad. Now, it's actually been a fairly interesting study path for me. Currently have a 3.97.

I did the Meet the Firms and got a few internship offers; and some from the Big 4. I decided to go with a well known, but still growing a lot, regional firm. I have no desire at my age to be grinding the Big 4 style. I'd rather be a big fish in a smaller pond.

If you don't mind, would you say what market you in and how your salary progressed through those 4 years? When did you get your CPA/how did that affect salary?

I'm in the San Francisco area and hope to get a full-time offer (after the internship) in the 75k for a first year audit staff. Am I being crazy or is that realistic? I'll likely graduate with a 3.8+ and with the CPA test fully completed/enough units etc for licensure. My internship offers ranged from $23/hour to $28 an hour (40 hour work week).

My not so great understanding of a career path:
1-2 years: Audit Staff
1-2 years: Audit Senior
2+ years: Audit Manager

Is that generally right?

I'm in the bay area as well. Semiconductor industry.

Full time offers at the audit staff level are mid 50's to mid 60's depending on your educational background. I know people with masters of accountancy were getting in at mid 60's.

Promotion to senior usually brings you to $70 to $80k, with manager just under $100k base with significant bonus incentives.

I can't stress this enough, but part of getting mentally prepared for that big 4 life, is mentally preparing yourself to being UNDER PAID. The trade off is the experience and value of having a Big 4 name on your resume. It's tough and a huge blow to your ego. I remember being a 1rst year at my Big 4, getting paid in the low $50s, working 70 hours a week........where some of my college homies who passed up public accounting and went straight to industry where they were making $70 to $80k, barely working 40 hours a week.....I was heated.......

In hindsight, it's all good. I learned at an accelerated pace compared to them. Never go into big 4 accounting for the immediate salary. That's a recipe for frustration and quitting early. You gotta think about big picture, almost like an investment in time and energy for a bigger payoff in the future.

flyknitlvr · Apr 8, 2014

cguy610 said:
FLYKNITLVR, CPAs are not a dime a dozen. The Board limits the number of CPAs out there. Furthermore, I don't believe you routinely get resumes en masse from CPAs that $18/hr opening just because there arent that many CPAs out there.

1) I'm in Canada.

2) I have no reason to lie.

king milaac · Apr 8, 2014

40inchBoost said:
Basically how I feel. Could stay around another 2-3 years but know I would hate myself for it and life is too short.

I know the feels man. I was straight miserable for a couple months straight, questioned what I was doing it, why I was doing it, and flirted with the idea of quitting on a daily basis.

All I can say is stick through it. I think that sweet spot is leaving at about 3 to 4 years, make sure you got a few busy seasons under your belt as a senior, and have that CPA, and you'll make it out alive man, I promise you that. I literally work 35 to 40 hours a week now in a challenging/dynamic role. It's the perfect combo of work/life balance + meaningful career. It was all worth it.

flyknitlvr · Apr 8, 2014

King Milaac said:
I know the feels man. I was straight miserable for a couple months straight, questioned what I was doing it, why I was doing it, and flirted with the idea of quitting on a daily basis.

All I can say is stick through it. I think that sweet spot is leaving at about 3 to 4 years, make sure you got a few busy seasons under your belt as a senior, and have that CPA, and you'll make it out alive man, I promise you that. I literally work 35 to 40 hours a week now in a challenging/dynamic role. It's the perfect combo of work/life balance + meaningful career. It was all worth it.

Good advice. Don't fall into the trap of trying to make partner. My brother's firm dangled a carrot in front of him for close to 4 years. It was tough to watch from my perspective but now he just does his own thing and makes damn good money doing it so I don't think he minds.

grandtheftbike · Apr 8, 2014

FLYKNITLVR said:
I own an accounting business and I routinely get resumes from people with 3-5 years of public practice experience, all of whom are over qualified for the $18/hour position I am hiring for.

:x :x :x $18?

Majorbread · Apr 8, 2014

^

King Milaac said:
I know the feels man. I was straight miserable for a couple months straight, questioned what I was doing it, why I was doing it, and flirted with the idea of quitting on a daily basis.

All I can say is stick through it. I think that sweet spot is leaving at about 3 to 4 years, make sure you got a few busy seasons under your belt as a senior, and have that CPA, and you'll make it out alive man, I promise you that. I literally work 35 to 40 hours a week now in a challenging/dynamic role. It's the perfect combo of work/life balance + meaningful career. It was all worth it.

Ya its definitely a mental struggle on a daily basis. Part of me isn't sure that the "Corporate" route is the way either, which adds some twists to that as well. Just feel kind of stuck for the most part right now :smh:

Majorbread · Apr 8, 2014

FLYKNITLVR said:
Good advice. Don't fall into the trap of trying to make partner. My brother's firm dangled a carrot in front of him for close to 4 years. It was tough to watch from my perspective but now he just does his own thing and makes damn good money doing it so I don't think he minds.

I sure as hell aint making partner, but the **** you deal with as a senior doesnt make the job anymore fun or meaningful I will say that

ray1345 · Apr 8, 2014

Accounting student here. Will graduate in the fall of 2014. I'll have over 150 Credits by the time I graduate. I'm not entirely sure if I will jump into CPA Asap. I just don't wanna study and retake the exams. I just want to start looking for a job. I will probably end up being a bookkeeper first and work my way up there or something. Currently working as a small time bookkeeper/office administrative at home for a small company.

lazyj10 · Apr 8, 2014

denni5themenace said:
the problem i'm having is that my firm doesn't get good clients. were constantly getting crappy clients (not prepared for the audit) and ****** budgets. a lot of non profit and government clients. i want to be working in other industries.

Start getting everything in order then. Lots of places are coming out of season - so re-hiring is going to begin soon. Figure out what interests you and build a relationship with firms that offer that industry as a service line. Or, work with a headhunter if you think that's better.

Lateral hire seniors are a great thing - there's some time spent learning the industry, but all things considered you bring a different perspective than a new senior who has been with the firm both years previously.

lazyj10 · Apr 8, 2014

Let me put it this way - a reason I enjoy what I do besides the industry I work on is the fact outside the crappy 1st qtr of the year I get to do this for the next 6-7 months ahead of ramping up again and holidays:

1) Networking and pitching to perspective clients
2) 5+ weeks of PTO
3) a 40-45 hour week outside of season
4) Plenty of golf with co-workers and friends on Fridays

The trade off for me is, during the first qtr of the year, where the weather is the worst (drought aside) I get to enjoy my time and I'm still focused on my industry versus having "available time" and being assigned to something that I have zero interest in.

I've said this in other accounting threads and it will make me sound older/grumpy, but in order to get paid well you need experience. Mastering a subject takes more than 4 years. Yes, you work a lot of hours - and those of you in the Big 4 are unlucky in having to do those hours all year round, but find your niche and passion, master it, you get paid very well IMO.

Thing about kids coming out of college and earning more is their total earn out potential can be limited. Sure it'd be great to earn $70k in year 1, but it'd be ****** if I'm still in the $70's three years later.

Betonblck · Apr 8, 2014

FLYKNITLVR said:
cguy610 said:

FLYKNITLVR, CPAs are not a dime a dozen. The Board limits the number of CPAs out there. Furthermore, I don't believe you routinely get resumes en masse from CPAs that $18/hr opening just because there arent that many CPAs out there.

Click to expand...

1) I'm in Canada.

2) I have no reason to lie.

Well there you go. You are in Canada and we are talking about CPAs in the US.

Furthermore, it looks like they aren't even called CPAs in Canada and the designation doesn't even exist yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_Professional_Accountant

denni5themenace · Apr 8, 2014

LazyJ10 said:
denni5themenace said:

the problem i'm having is that my firm doesn't get good clients. were constantly getting crappy clients (not prepared for the audit) and ****** budgets. a lot of non profit and government clients. i want to be working in other industries.

Click to expand...

Start getting everything in order then. Lots of places are coming out of season - so re-hiring is going to begin soon. Figure out what interests you and build a relationship with firms that offer that industry as a service line. Or, work with a headhunter if you think that's better.

Lateral hire seniors are a great thing - there's some time spent learning the industry, but all things considered you bring a different perspective than a new senior who has been with the firm both years previously.

i definitely plan on starting to get my resume and cover letters in order. i always heard that when moving from small firm to big firm, you move down in rank (senior > staff / experienced staff) and when you move from big firm to small firm you move up in rank ( senior > supervisor/manager). my fear is that they will see me as a senior and i really haven't been given any senior responsibilities. i plan to apply as experienced staff at the bigger firms.

sfc415 · Apr 8, 2014

Fellow accountants, how do you deal with wanting to go off on an unreasonable/disrespectful client? :smh:

It's the ultimate test of self restraint. It's so @#$@$@ hard :smh:

This client just wasted 3 hours of my time and went off on me for the stupidest reasons. For example because I labeled document dates as 01.31.2014 Statement instead of 2014.01.31 Statement :smh:

Now he wants me to go through hundreds of files and rename all of them...... Dude told me "Maybe I shouldn't pay you guys for this. Actually I might sue you guys for doing poor quality work" Meanwhile I was professional the whole time. Kept telling him "I understand your concerns. I'm doing my best to help you" but dude kept @#$@$ing. It got to the point where one of his employees came and apologized to me for his behavior

Edit: I just e-mailed my manager and let him know, I think they're arguing on the phone now :lol:

Majorbread · Apr 8, 2014

I know that feel

Definitely would like to let them know how I really feel but ultimately I realize IDGAF and just hit them with the :stoneface:

Betonblck · Apr 8, 2014

SFC415 said:
Fellow accountants, how do you deal with wanting to go off on an unreasonable/disrespectful client?

It's the ultimate test of self restraint. It's so @#$@$@ hard

This client just wasted 3 hours of my time and went off on me for the stupidest reasons. For example because I labeled document dates as 01.31.2014 Statement instead of 2014.01.31 Statement Now he wants me to go through hundreds of files and rename all of them...... Dude told me "Maybe I shouldn't pay you guys for this. Actually I might sue you guys for doing poor quality work" Meanwhile I was professional the whole time. Kept telling him "I understand your concerns. I'm doing my best to help you" but dude kept @#$@$ing. It got to the point where one of his employees came and apologized to me for his behavior

Edit: I just e-mailed my manager and let him know, I think they're arguing on the phone now

I don't argue, but I call them out on things that they should be doing when I can. If they are late sending me things, they are wrong about things, etc, etc.

sfc415 · Apr 8, 2014

Yup, after a while I just stopped responding to his "Why is _______ not the way I wanted?" and just pretended to make a note of it. Still, the way he was talking...."How come you didn't do ______? Don't you think it's common sense and logical?" over the most insignificant @#$%. Really man, I'm trying to do real work for you, and you're spending hours going through my documents and complaining about why one document is named January Bank_Statement.pdf and the next one is named February Bank Statement.pdf. WHO THE @#$% CARES

sfc415 · Apr 8, 2014

My manager just called me, and damn he was HEATED at my client.

He told me "I just got off the phone with them, I went off on them. Next time they're being a @#$%, don't even say anything. Just pack up your @#$% and leave! If he was saying that @#$% to you in my presence I would've punched him in the @#$@$@ face!!! @#$@ that @#$@$@!!! We don't need this @#$@$@ client, we'd rather lose them than deal with this @#$%" I've never heard my manager this mad before :lol:

It's a good feeling to know that your higher ups have your back. I might not get paid as much as I'd like, but I love working at a company where everyone respects and supports each other like a real team

lazyj10 · Apr 8, 2014

Why does your client give a **** what you label your workpapers? I assume these statements are going into your audit or other database right? Well, that's the property of the auditor so he shouldn't care...am I missing something?

I always have my seniors/staff back and will fall on a sword/gernade as necessary. I have no problem calling someone out if they're being disrespectful to me or the team (rarely occurs). With clien'ts like that, they're always first on my "to exit" list. I've built my own reputation and our firm is one that doesn't need **** clients who can't treat people well and their stuff is all a mess.

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Any Accounting majors/accountants on NT?

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