I was wrong about Dwight Howard

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sea manup

sea manup

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dwight was dominant on both ends of the floor and almost willed his team to a series victory

i was wrong in thinking that he's not a max contract player, the dwight howard we saw today and throughout the series is worth every penny of the max deal we could have given him

not mad that he left though, he put himself in a situation where he is most comfortable and he has thrived because of it

fully healthy d12 is appreciated 
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He's been a max contract player. That's never been in question for me.

My issue with him was how he handled things in both Orlando and LA. That whole "dwightmare" nonsense was alot of his own doing.

That and I feel he could be better then he already is if he put the work in on certian things. Developing a decent post game, free throws and so. But he's a top 10 player in the league despite that and a great defender. That can't be taken away from him.
 
healthy Dwight is a monster and this series proved it. Should have been shooting 15+ free throws a game the way he was defended but can't really do anything about that now.
 
do work son said:
healthy Dwight is a monster and this series proved it. Should have been shooting 15+ free throws a game the way he was defended but can't really do anything about that now.
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you have to be skinny or flop in the NBA to get calls. shouldnt be this way but thats the way it is
 
The role players behind Harden and Howard didnt step up. Simple as that.
 
He had a very good series but he wasnt dominant. He was outplayed by aldridge in those two games in houston that lead to eventually being eliminated. Dominant means he was the best player from both sides in the series. And he wasnt even the second best
 
tim teufel said:
He had a very good series but he wasnt dominant. He was outplayed by aldridge in those two games in houston that lead to eventually being eliminated. Dominant means he was the best player from both sides in the series. And he wasnt even the second best
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he was scoring on every touch while playing great D on lamarcus

not sure how lamarcus was so flimsy on offense but was somehow able to hold dwight back at the same rate as lopez did
 
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Yes, he is a max player. However, he is not a player I want to build around. Maybe I am biased, but I preferred Bynum over Dwight a few years ago even though he lacked focus and started to show signs of injury problems.

Harden was very disappointing too. I am a major fan, but I hope he does not become the next Joe Johnson. :smh:
 
Meh a max player nowadays don't really mean what it once did. The real question is would u build your franchise around the clown?
 
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There's no denying that he's a max contract talent and that he's a dominant player on both ends of the floor.


However......



He's not the type of player I'd want to build around simply because of whats going on between his ears. He's not a team leader, he's not a guy who makes his teammates better. He refuses to be self-deprecating and take accountability for his inabilities as a player but he'll be the first guy on his team to throw his coaches and his teammates under the bus if his team doesn't succeed.


He's the antithesis of a Tim Duncan in terms of being a leader. He's coming of age and he's still the same childish kid he's always been, he hasn't evolved one bit in terms of maturity.



But looking back I can't fault the Lakers for making a move for Dwight because at days end, as much as a lot of Lakers fans won't admit it, Andrew Bynum was worse in all the regards I'm being critical of Dwight. Andrew with all his ability as a post-scorer was/is an immature selfish brat who wanted the easy way to success.

My beef with the 4-team trade that had Dwight sent to LA and Bynum to Philly was the fact that

1. It was a blatantly lateral move, there was a strong likelihood from the get go that if we didn't cater to Dwight's wants he was going to jettison.

2. We gave up our 2017 first round pick in the deal.

I'd much rather have just let Andrew stay aboard until his contract expired and looked at other options in free agency. I know a lot would say well "hindsight is 20/20" but I knew that Dwight wasn't going to work for us, I just ******* knew.


So at days end I never really considered Dwight as a franchise player because of his inability to be a leader. He's just not that type of player. Great talent but just not the type of guy who is going to bring a wealth of hardware to a city unless literally everything falls into place for him & the team he's playing for.
 
SneakerHeathen said:
There's no denying that he's a max contract talent and that he's a dominant player on both ends of the floor.


However......



He's not the type of player I'd want to build around simply because of whats going on between his ears. He's not a team leader, he's not a guy who makes his teammates better. He refuses to be self-deprecating and take accountability for his inabilities as a player but he'll be the first guy on his team to throw his coaches and his teammates under the bus if his team doesn't succeed.


He's the antithesis of a Tim Duncan in terms of being a leader. He's coming of age and he's still the same childish kid he's always been, he hasn't evolved one bit in terms of maturity.



But looking back I can't fault the Lakers for making a move for Dwight because at days end, as much as a lot of Lakers fans won't admit it, Andrew Bynum was worse in all the regards I'm being critical of Dwight. Andrew with all his ability as a post-scorer was/is an immature selfish brat who wanted the easy way to success.

My beef with the 4-team trade that had Dwight sent to LA and Bynum to Philly was the fact that

1. It was a blatantly lateral move, there was a strong likelihood from the get go that if we didn't cater to Dwight's wants he was going to jettison.

2. We gave up our 2017 first round pick in the deal.

I'd much rather have just let Andrew stay aboard until his contract expired and looked at other options in free agency. I know a lot would say well "hindsight is 20/20" but I knew that Dwight wasn't going to work for us, I just ******* knew.


So at days end I never really considered Dwight as a franchise player because of his inability to be a leader. He's just not that type of player. Great talent but just not the type of guy who is going to bring a wealth of hardware to a city unless literally everything falls into place for him & the team he's playing for.
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You are not in the locker room, you have no idea who is a leader and who isn't or waht effect that has. :lol:


who is a leader =/= who you like personally.



All the 90's Bulls say Scottie Pippen was the emotional leader of the squad. But somehow jordan won 6 championships.



stop it with this imaginary leadership. :rofl:
 
Osh Kosh Bosh said:
You are not in the locker room, you have no idea who is a leader and who isn't or waht effect that has. :lol:


who is a leader =/= who you like personally.



All the 90's Bulls say Scottie Pippen was the emotional leader of the squad. But somehow jordan won 6 championships.



stop it with this imaginary leadership. :rofl:
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Oh rly? So to hell with everything we know about Dwight, everything is apparent, everything his coaches have said about him. What knowledgeable basketball pundits have said about him, and what we can with our own eyes observe.


You sound foolish as hell right now. And BTW, Phil has always said Jordan was a great leader who expected his teammates effort to match his. That's why he had them come to his compound in the off-season to train, that's why he got in their faces. No denying that Pippen was a fantastic leader in his own right but Jordan was one helluva leader as well.


http://nba.si.com/2013/05/17/phil-j...leader-shooter-and-defender-than-kobe-bryant/
 
SneakerHeathen said:
Oh rly? So to hell with everything we know about Dwight, everything is apparent, everything his coaches have said about him. What knowledgeable basketball pundits have said about him, and what we can with our own eyes observe.


You sound foolish as hell right now. And BTW, Phil has always said Jordan was a great leader who expected his teammates effort to match his. That's why he had them come to his compound in the off-season to train, that's why he got in their faces. No denying that Pippen was a fantastic leader in his own right but Jordan was one helluva leader as well.


http://nba.si.com/2013/05/17/phil-j...leader-shooter-and-defender-than-kobe-bryant/
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what have coaches said?

notice how you didn't say teammates? :lol:

cmon man, just because people think he's a cornball doesn't mean we can just make stuff up about him.



Phil may have thought he was a great leader, but my point remains, Jordan was perceived as the leader of bulls, his teammates say it was Pippen. So think twice when you just apply the leader tag on people you like.
 
Osh Kosh Bosh said:
what have coaches said?

notice how you didn't say teammates? :lol:

cmon man, just because people think he's a cornball doesn't mean we can just make stuff up about him.



Phil may have thought he was a great leader, but my point remains, Jordan was perceived as the leader of bulls, his teammates say it was Pippen. So think twice when you just apply the leader tag on people you like.
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On people I like? I called Tim Duncan a great leader, doesn't mean I like him. I detest him and the Spurs. I respect them, but I hate 'em.


Again I'm not saying Pippen wasn't the consensus leader of the Bulls, but Jordan was a tremendous leader in his own right.

As far as Dwight goes, SVG was always guarded about how he really felt, but his is what he did say after his firing


"The Dwight thing was so big….in an effort, I guess, to make Dwight happy and everything else, we compromised a lot of the culture and values we had before that. It's always a mistake when you compromise those things…everything goes South. It was no longer a team-first thing," he said. "It was inevitable things would not go as well.
[…]
"When Bob left, it really became Alex over everything," Van Gundy told AM 740.


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...ired-blasts-orlando-magic-130406155--nba.html
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So while he might not have directly faulted Dwight, instead opting to blast Orlando's CEO. But it was Dwight who caused all that discord. You're being unreasonable right now. if you're going to say that I'm faulting Dwight because of my personal sentiment toward him, then you'd best hold every NBA pundit to the same standard. I guess nobody likes Dwight then :rolleyes.
 
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SneakerHeathen said:
On people I like? I called Tim Duncan a great leader, doesn't mean I like him. I detest him and the Spurs. I respect them, but I hate 'em.


Again I'm not saying Pippen wasn't the consensus leader of the Bulls, but Jordan was a tremendous leader in his own right.

As far as Dwight goes, SVG was always guarded about how he really felt, but his is what he did say after his firing
So while he might not have directly faulted Dwight, instead opting to blast Orlando's CEO. But it was Dwight who caused all that discord. You're being unreasonable right now. if you're going to say that I'm faulting Dwight because of my personal sentiment toward him, then you'd best hold every NBA pundit to the same standard. I guess nobody likes Dwight then :rolleyes.
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where in there did he question his leadership?

confirmation bias doggy.

Stan Van Gundy is on dan lebatards radio show every week, has said multiple times that, dwight is a good guy and a good teammate. and they are still in contact, and they talk all the time. but that doesn't fit your theory I guess.

but he got stan fired so he's a bad leader?

Magic got paul westhead fired. is he a bad leader?


everything you just quoted was said about lebron when he left cleavland.


Is lebron a bad leader?


WE ARE NOT IN THE LOCKER ROOM.

WE DO NOT KNOW THESE PEOPLE.

Why is that so controversial?
 
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Osh Kosh Bosh said:
where in there did he question his leadership?

confirmation bias doggy.

Stan Van Gundy is on dan lebatards radio show every week, has said multiple times that, dwight is a good guy and a good teammate. and they are still in contact, and they talk all the time. but that doesn't fit your theory I guess.

but he got stan fired so he's a bad leader?

Magic got paul westhead fired. is he a bad leader?


everything you just quoted was said about lebron when he left cleavland.


Is lebron a bad leader?


WE ARE NOT IN THE LOCKER ROOM.

WE DO NOT KNOW THESE PEOPLE.

Why is that so controversial?
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It's not confirmation bias because in my OG post I spoke about how he wanted everything his way, else he'd call for a firing or throw his teammates under the bus. That's all part of my view of leadership it's NOT just his on court stuff. And it wasn't just SVG he wanted fired he wanted MDA fired too and allegedly Kobe amnestied.


You're missing the entirety of my opinion, you're focusing on just one part. It's not just his on court stuff.

And let's not even begin with LeBron this is about Dwight I have nothing to say about Bron in this thread.


I swear you're arguing with me just for the sake of arguing, you're like the only one in the world who thinks Dwight is a good leader and a good team personality.
 
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"Look, and I've said this before, to me, with his rebounding his scoring and his defense, I don't think there's anybody that impacts as many possessions in a game as Dwight does," Van Gundy said. "I think Derrick Rose has been great. I'll have no problem at all if Derrick Rose wins the MVP. They've got the best record in the East, he's been clearly their leader. You can make a great case for him.

"I think it's a hard choice to make, he's been great. But, I still don't think anyone impacts as many possessions a game as Dwight does."
 
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