I was wrong about Dwight Howard

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You can build around Dwight if you got a respected coach and a well structured organization.

Main reason why the lakers dropped the ball big time hiring Pringles over Phil. You have a superstar roster, you need a proven superstar coach.
 
SneakerHeathen said:
It's not confirmation bias because in my OG post I spoke about how he wanted everything his way, else he'd call for a firing or throw his teammates under the bus. That's all part of my view of leadership it's NOT just his on court stuff. And it wasn't just SVG he wanted fired he wanted MDA fired too and allegedly Kobe amnestied.


You're missing the entirety of my opinion, you're focusing on just one part. It's not just his on court stuff.

And let's not even begin with LeBron this is about Dwight I have nothing to say about Bron in this thread.


I swear you're arguing with me just for the sake of arguing, you're like the only one in the world who thinks Dwight is a good leader and a good team personality.
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1. Kobe has never called for a firing or thrown any teammate under the bus? SAS reported that Kobe wanted Mike out. Is he a leader?

2. It is confirmation bias; you have an opinion, and you only notice evidence that supports it and ignore what doesn't, plenty of evidence, that Stan and Dwight besides the bad end had a good relationship and have a good relationship to this day. but the one bad moment, between the two means he's a bad leader.

3. What you think of other leaders is relevant, you seem to think that Dwight is not a leader becasue he got Stan Van Gundy fired and he wants everything his way.

THE EXACT SAME THINGS were said about Kobe, Magic, Jordan, Lebron, 90% of star players BESIDES Tim Duncan.


If you are going to say Dwight is a bad leader, FINE, but be consistent.



My opinion is I HAVE NO IDEA, and I'm not sure if it even matters.
 
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Osh Kosh Bosh said:
1. Kobe has never called for a firing or thrown any teammate under the bus? SAS reported that Kobe wanted Mike out. Is he a leader?

2. It is confirmation bias; you have an opinion, and you only notice evidence that supports it and ignore what doesn't, plenty of evidence, that Stan and Dwight besides the bad end had a good relationship and have a good relationship to this day. but the one bad moment, between the two means he's a bad leader.

3. What you think of other leaders is relevant, you seem to think that Dwight is not a leader becasue he got Stan Van Gundy fired and he wants everything his way.

THE EXACT SAME THINGS were said about Kobe, Magic, Jordan, Lebron, 90% of star players BESIDES Tim Duncan.


If you are going to say Dwight is a bad leader, FINE, but be consistent.



My opinion is I HAVE NO IDEA, and I'm not sure if it even matters.
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1. Did you see the article I posted comparing Jordan and Kobe's leadership? Why would I cite such an article if I thought Kobe was a supreme leader? He OBVIOUSLY has his issues as a leader. Love the guy, but I'm under no false impressions of him either.

2. I have nothing bad to say about Dwight as a player, I have an opinion and you're in disagreement. I am simply providing some rationale for my opinion. How about you cite some sources touting his leadership?

3. I am equally critical of Kobe, Shaq, and Bron. I hold all as great players but every single one you listed has had their moments of poor leadership. I am not touting or have ever touted Kobe (my favorite player) as a better leader than Dwight.


Again the thread is about Dwight, why are you asking me to be consistent about these other guys YOU are bringing up. I never brought 'em up. I used Tim as an example of good leadership, that's it. I did not mean to turn this into a comparison thread between NBA greats.


I am many things, but one thing I am not is a stan. I am not being critical of these other guys because this isn't the thread for 'em, it's about Dwight. I've been critical of Kobe as a Laker fan and I've been critical of Shaq. Two of my favorite players of all-time, I love 'em to death. But if you're asking me if I think they're great, transcendent leaders that make their teammates better, then no I don't think that.


Happy? Enough consistency for you Osh? :lol: Damn.
 
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Osh Kosh Bosh said:
SneakerHeathen said:
There's no denying that he's a max contract talent and that he's a dominant player on both ends of the floor.


However......



He's not the type of player I'd want to build around simply because of whats going on between his ears. He's not a team leader, he's not a guy who makes his teammates better. He refuses to be self-deprecating and take accountability for his inabilities as a player but he'll be the first guy on his team to throw his coaches and his teammates under the bus if his team doesn't succeed.


He's the antithesis of a Tim Duncan in terms of being a leader. He's coming of age and he's still the same childish kid he's always been, he hasn't evolved one bit in terms of maturity.



But looking back I can't fault the Lakers for making a move for Dwight because at days end, as much as a lot of Lakers fans won't admit it, Andrew Bynum was worse in all the regards I'm being critical of Dwight. Andrew with all his ability as a post-scorer was/is an immature selfish brat who wanted the easy way to success.

My beef with the 4-team trade that had Dwight sent to LA and Bynum to Philly was the fact that

1. It was a blatantly lateral move, there was a strong likelihood from the get go that if we didn't cater to Dwight's wants he was going to jettison.

2. We gave up our 2017 first round pick in the deal.

I'd much rather have just let Andrew stay aboard until his contract expired and looked at other options in free agency. I know a lot would say well "hindsight is 20/20" but I knew that Dwight wasn't going to work for us, I just ******* knew.


So at days end I never really considered Dwight as a franchise player because of his inability to be a leader. He's just not that type of player. Great talent but just not the type of guy who is going to bring a wealth of hardware to a city unless literally everything falls into place for him & the team he's playing for.
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You are not in the locker room, you have no idea who is a leader and who isn't or what effect that has. :lol:
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The personal opinions of Dwight cloud the reality of his on the court skills with a lot of people.
 
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He was great then... But not a max player in the way the earlier poster was defining it
 
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