NFL Discussion Thread: Pats win SB XLIX. Offseason begins

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Terry Bradshaw has apparently been trolling Peyton Manning on his Super Bowl losses. I would've loved to see Bradshaw without the Steel Curtain, but it's whatever. Does anyone even consider him a top 10 QB? If they do they're wrong.....terribly wrong.
 
thekidgriffey24 said:
You have a top 5 backs list without Jamal Charles? How is that possible?
I'm with Haden and I think he did it the right way. If Manziel is going to have all his misadventures plastered all over social media and exposed to the public, he should get called out in public. I actually like Manziel, but he needs to tone it down or keep it out if the news.
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I just see those guy putting up better numbers when it comes to rushing. Also if I remember correctly the Chiefs lost starting LT Albert, and two starting  guards( Jon Asamoah and Geoff Schwartz) so I can see a decline.mo
 
thekidgriffey24 said:
Terry Bradshaw has apparently been trolling Peyton Manning on his Super Bowl losses. I would've loved to see Bradshaw without the Steel Curtain, but it's whatever. Does anyone even consider him a top 10 QB? If they do they're wrong.....terribly wrong.
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Everything Bradshaw said is true though.

Its not just the Super Bowl loss, its the entire playoff résumé and numerous playoff losses to lower seeded inferior teams, where the "best qb in the game" didn't deliver when he was needed most time and time again.

Bradshaw's standing as a qb has nothing to do with Peyton Manning being a habitual choke artist.
 
Cedric Ceballos said:
Everything Bradshaw said is true though.

Its not just the Super Bowl loss, its the entire playoff résumé and numerous playoff losses to lower seeded inferior teams, where the "best qb in the game" didn't deliver when he was needed most time and time again.

Bradshaw's standing as a qb has nothing to do with Peyton Manning being a habitual choke artist.
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It's a team sport. You put all those losses on Peyton? His Colts defenses were awful, in 2012-13 he put up 35 points along with Holiday and they lost. How can you blame that on him? Obviously it's partly on him but he's 1-2 in the big game in comparison to Jim Kelly who was 0-4, Elway 2-3, Staubach 2-3. He's not nearly as bad a playoff QB as he's made out to be.

Brett Favre had just as many playoff losses and less Super Bowl appearances. Peyton is the only QB constantly vilified for the playoffs.
 
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thekidgriffey24 said:
Cedric Ceballos said:
Everything Bradshaw said is true though.

Its not just the Super Bowl loss, its the entire playoff résumé and numerous playoff losses to lower seeded inferior teams, where the "best qb in the game" didn't deliver when he was needed most time and time again.

Bradshaw's standing as a qb has nothing to do with Peyton Manning being a habitual choke artist.
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It's a team sport. You put all those losses on Peyton? His Colts defenses were awful, in 2012-13 he put up 35 points along with Holiday and they lost. How can you blame that on him? Obviously it's partly on him but he's 1-2 in the big game in comparison to Jim Kelly who was 0-4, Elway 2-3, Staubach 2-3. He's not nearly as bad a playoff QB as he's made out to be.

Brett Favre had just as many playoff losses and less Super Bowl appearances. Peyton is the only QB constantly vilified for the playoffs.
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The team didn't throw those interceptions.

Peyton did
 
Why is it that during the regular season when Peyton puts up dominant numbers we hear about how it's the great Peyton Manning and how his teammates are honored to play with him and how he makes them better.   They put up numbers against good defenses in the regular season as well.

But when he has a terrible game in the Super Bowl all of a sudden it's a team game.    To counter that, even if Denver's defense shut the Seahawks out they still would've lost because of 18.    Denver scored 8 points.   Peyton threw a pick 6 and caused a safety with all that silly unnecessary Omaha audibling nonsense on the first play of the game.  that's 9 points Seattle scored which can be attributed to him.

Why is it that the 49ers who have a quarterback in Kaepernick who isn't as a good as Peyton were able to go into Seattle and score points and almost win the game? It's much tougher to play in Seattle then on a neutral field.   Drew Brees who is about the same level as Peyton was able to play a decent game in Seattle in the playoffs as well.   This Seattle defense was great but they weren't no 2000 Ravens or 1985 bears.  

No matter how you cut it, there's no excuses for "The best qb in the game" to crap the bed on the level he did in the Super Bowl.    Remember all we heard about those 2 weeks leading up to the game was Peyton Mannings legacy, his place in history, how great he was, and the rest of the Broncos were just a footnote.   Had they won the game, it would be about how the great Peyton Manning willed them to victory.   I don't mind him getting the individual accolades when he does good, but it shouldn't all of a sudden become a team game when he does bad, if the rest of the team was a footnote when he does good.

And regarding the Elway part. Those 3 Super Bowls he lost, those teams were totally overmatched,  Aside from Super Bowl 25, the same could be said about Jim Kelly's Bills.    They weren't expected to win those games. There was a reason the NFC won 13 straight Super Bowls during that time period.    

Many of the games Peyton Manning led teams lost, they were expected to win and some of the games where they played on the road they were expected to put up a much better fight then they did.  

Some of the teams,  Steelers in 05,  Ravens last season, they destroyed in the regular season only for the team to come up short and him not to deliver when it mattered most. 

Some of the teams they had no business losing to,  at home to the Chargers who were without Rivers and Tomlinson for a good portion of the game,  to an 8-8 Chargers team that squeaked in the last week of the season.

Some of the games were blowouts   41-0 to the Jets,  20-3 to New England after the rules were changed which benifited the Colts passing game going against a physical defense like New England.

Some of the games he imploded when it mattered most,  pick 6 while driving to tie the game against the Saints.      the Jets playoff game where if he got a first down they run the clock out and win the game. 

I'm disregarding his first few playoff loses because they weren't as good yet but from 2003 on they were a 12 win or more team each season aside from 2010 and were considered true contenders each year.

I got no hate or dislike towards Peyton Manning, he's a good role model, and great person.  However the playoff scrutiny he gets is warranted and deserved.  Doesn't take away from him as a person though.
 
thekidgriffey24 said:
Brett Favre had just as many playoff losses and less Super Bowl appearances. Peyton is the only QB constantly vilified for the playoffs.
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Brett Favre should get more flack for some of those bad interceptions at the worst possible times.  

Only thing is, it's people who really think Peyton is the best QB of all time.  Better then Montana, better then Marino, better then Elway, better then Brady.

Favre is considered a great qb, but no one except maybe the ceo's at wrangler would consider him in that best qb of all time discussion.
 
they were favored to win the game.  alot of people were picking the Broncos to win that game.  

there's no shame in losing to Seattle, their the Super Bowl Champions.     screw them but you can't deny what they did.   It's how the Broncos lost though.  They played like some little sissy pansies.   It looked like Seattle was playing the Jaguars that game.    the 49ers played them close, so did the saints. both in seattle.  i'm not trying to hear any excuses for how the Broncos went out the way they did in that big game.
 
Who cares that they were favorites, favorites lose all the time. That was probably the easiest game Seattle played all season and they dominated.

So yea I'd say Denver was overmatched.
 
Cedric Ceballos said:
Why is it that during the regular season when Peyton puts up dominant numbers we hear about how it's the great Peyton Manning and how his teammates are honored to play with him and how he makes them better.   They put up numbers against good defenses in the regular season as well.

But when he has a terrible game in the Super Bowl all of a sudden it's a team game.    To counter that, even if Denver's defense shut the Seahawks out they still would've lost because of 18.    Denver scored 8 points.   Peyton threw a pick 6 and caused a safety with all that silly unnecessary Omaha audibling nonsense on the first play of the game.  that's 9 points Seattle scored which can be attributed to him.

Why is it that the 49ers who have a quarterback in Kaepernick who isn't as a good as Peyton were able to go into Seattle and score points and almost win the game? It's much tougher to play in Seattle then on a neutral field.   Drew Brees who is about the same level as Peyton was able to play a decent game in Seattle in the playoffs as well.   This Seattle defense was great but they weren't no 2000 Ravens or 1985 bears.  

No matter how you cut it, there's no excuses for "The best qb in the game" to crap the bed on the level he did in the Super Bowl.    Remember all we heard about those 2 weeks leading up to the game was Peyton Mannings legacy, his place in history, how great he was, and the rest of the Broncos were just a footnote.   Had they won the game, it would be about how the great Peyton Manning willed them to victory.   I don't mind him getting the individual accolades when he does good, but it shouldn't all of a sudden become a team game when he does bad, if the rest of the team was a footnote when he does good.

And regarding the Elway part. Those 3 Super Bowls he lost, those teams were totally overmatched,  Aside from Super Bowl 25, the same could be said about Jim Kelly's Bills.    They weren't expected to win those games. There was a reason the NFC won 13 straight Super Bowls during that time period.    

Many of the games Peyton Manning led teams lost, they were expected to win and some of the games where they played on the road they were expected to put up a much better fight then they did.  

Some of the teams,  Steelers in 05,  Ravens last season, they destroyed in the regular season only for the team to come up short and him not to deliver when it mattered most. 

Some of the teams they had no business losing to,  at home to the Chargers who were without Rivers and Tomlinson for a good portion of the game,  to an 8-8 Chargers team that squeaked in the last week of the season.

Some of the games were blowouts   41-0 to the Jets,  20-3 to New England after the rules were changed which benifited the Colts passing game going against a physical defense like New England.

Some of the games he imploded when it mattered most,  pick 6 while driving to tie the game against the Saints.      the Jets playoff game where if he got a first down they run the clock out and win the game. 

I'm disregarding his first few playoff loses because they weren't as good yet but from 2003 on they were a 12 win or more team each season aside from 2010 and were considered true contenders each year.

I got no hate or dislike towards Peyton Manning, he's a good role model, and great person.  However the playoff scrutiny he gets is warranted and deserved.  Doesn't take away from him as a person though.
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Didn't read half of this and probably won't but it looked like a really good post and I respect your opinion.

Now for my response on the part that I did read which was the part that mentioned my Niners, there was no chance any afc team was going to win. NFC and AFC football was a whole other world last season. Peyton was overmatched along with his o line and his defense. They never had a chance. Kaepernick didn't have a great passing game vs Seattle, he was beating them with his legs and have you ever seen Peyton Manning beat anyone with their legs? Seattle was way off their game against the Saints in the playoffs. In the regular season Seattle absolutely blasted the Saints.

I'll read the rest of your post later but I'm on my phone right now. On a side note Peyton didn't give up 41 to the Jets, I'll put the blame on him for the Pats loss, the Chargers were way better than their record that year and they ended that season on a tear with Rivers playing out of his mind and that game went into OT and Manning never got the ball if I remember correctly.

I'll give Elway the super bowl against the Giants and Niners but they lost to a backup QB against the ********....no defending that.
 
Cedric Ceballos said:
Brett Favre should get more flack for some of those bad interceptions at the worst possible times.  

Only thing is, it's people who really think Peyton is the best QB of all time.  Better then Montana, better then Marino, better then Elway, better then Brady.

Favre is considered a great qb, but no one except maybe the ceo's at wrangler would consider him in that best qb of all time discussion.
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Why isn't Manning better than Elway and Marino? I can see an argument, but you're saying it as if it's a fact that they're better.
 
how is it the easiest game they played all season?  seattle played teams like jacksonville, tennessee, houston, tampa bay, and the vikings during the season, hell the rams at home is kinda easy too.    

favorites lose regularly. even some of the best qb's have lost a big game or 2, some at home to heavy underdogs.    you can chalk that up as them having a bad game, or things not going their way it's not really reflective of them.  hell even if it happens to them twice you can view it that way.  your not going to win every game.

but when it becomes a recurring thing and happens with different teams you play on, it becomes a reputation and track record and not just a mere coincidence. 
 
It's totally true that Peyton is one of those guys who gets all of the credit and none of the blame from many people.

That's what happens when you come into the league as a Golden Boy.
 
thekidgriffey24 said:
Why isn't Manning better than Elway and Marino? I can see an argument, but you're saying it as if it's a fact that they're better.
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it's debatable. i personally would take elway or marino over peyton though.   i'm not really a big believer in using the crappy team argument to defend a player but Marino for most of the 80's and 90's prior to Jimmy Johnson coaching there had some bad teams where he didn't have much help and he still put up numbers.  When Jimmy took over and started building the defense and putting a team around him it was clear his beat days are numbered. 

for elway, he put up some great numbers both with his arm and legs throughout his career and played well in the playoffs as well.  super bowls aside, he stepped up in the clutch when it mattered. 

not saying it as if it's a fact.  i'm sure you can make an argument for peyton being better then those guys but i got my reasons why i'd take elway or marino over him.  
 
I actually agree that Elway is better than Manning. Manning and Marino are essentially the same though. No defense, great receivers, should've done more than they did.

I'm not saying that Peyton Manning hasn't shrunk in big situations. He has and so has every QB. Joe Montana lost in 87 to a way inferior Vikings team, Terry Bradshaw was literally a bust until Chuck Noll came around, and Brady has shrunk in big moments like the last Super Bowl. My problem is that people only focus on Peyton's playoff failures and only blame him. The fact that he has the record for most 4th quarter game winning drives is totally ignored. I'm not one of those that give QBs all the credit, but there have been games in his career where he had to put up 40+ to win. Peyton's failed in the playoffs, but so has his team.
 
thekidgriffey24 said:
I actually agree that Elway is better than Manning. Manning and Marino are essentially the same though. No defense, great receivers, should've done more than they did.

I'm not saying that Peyton Manning hasn't shrunk in big situations. He has and so has every QB. Joe Montana lost in 87 to a way inferior Vikings team, Terry Bradshaw was literally a bust until Chuck Noll came around, and Brady has shrunk in big moments like the last Super Bowl. My problem is that people only focus on Peyton's playoff failures and only blame him. The fact that he has the record for most 4th quarter game winning drives is totally ignored. I'm not one of those that give QBs all the credit, but there have been games in his career where he had to put up 40+ to win. Peyton's failed in the playoffs, but so has his team.
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Actually Elway had a good defense and no receivers. He played with no Pro Bowl players on offense.

Marino had great receivers but no running game or defense

Knoll drafted Bradshaw, it was actually Al Davis who convinced Knoll to play him

Brady hasn't had the memorable game changing turnovers in his latest Super Bowl games like Manning has

Manning was awful in his last Super Bowl

Manning had to put up 40 because they focused the majority of their first round picks on offense
 
Mister Friendly said:
Actually Elway had a good defense and no receivers. He played with no Pro Bowl players on offense.

Marino had great receivers but no running game or defense

Knoll drafted Bradshaw, it was actually Al Davis who convinced Knoll to play him

Brady hasn't had the memorable game changing turnovers in his latest Super Bowl games like Manning has

Manning was awful in his last Super Bowl

Manning had to put up 40 because they focused the majority of their first round picks on offense
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I didn't know that Bradshaw Noll part. Thanks for that information. Other than that you reiterated what I said or brought up things never talked about and why are you spelling Noll like that?
 
Mister Friendly said:
Actually Elway had a good defense and no receivers. He played with no Pro Bowl players on offense.

 
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This is sarcasm right? Either that or Shannon Sharpe,Terrell Davis and Rod Smith don't count as offensive players anymore. Hell might as well throw in Ed McCaffrey in there to.

Not directly directing this to you, but seen some suspect opinions/statements in here that make me question if some people really watch football, but I digress...
 
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dontbelikethat said:
Mister Friendly said:
Actually Elway had a good defense and no receivers. He played with no Pro Bowl players on offense.


 
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This is sarcasm right? Either that or Shannon Sharpe,Terrell Davis and Rod Smith don't count as offensive players anymore. Hell might as well throw in Ed McCaffrey in there to.


Not directly directing this to you, but seen some suspect opinions/statements in here that make me question if some people really watch football, but I digress...
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I was talking about his first 3 Super Bowl rosters
 
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