2014 NBA Off-Season; Paul George suffers a double-compund-fracture, likely out for season. Speedy re

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a-friend said:
You can find highlights of Eric Dampier though, on YouTube.
Just because you click 1 Bill Russell video doesn't qualify you to discuss his greatness.
Nobody in here (I'm guessing) wavy included, has watched more than a few clips of Russell.
Adding him to a "great list" is done so out of habit, and people you respect say he could ball, so you believe it.
I believe it myself, but I'd never debate his greatness, I'd have no fuxing clue why he'd deserve to be on that list other than stats.
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You could look on YouTube and with sensibility, conjure up a picture of who Eric Dampier was in the NBA. Same with Russell. There's literally full length games of Russell on YouTube. What more do you need? From my perspective, in this day and age, there's more than enough sources of information out there to formulate an adequate opinion on Russell.

At the end of the day, what he did was historical for his time. That much can't be disputed. Where it gets tricky is how much you value the time period he was playing in with respect to his place in basketball annals. And in my opinion, that will always be a tricky, subjective argument but you can't dilute it because you "never seen him play." That's BS in 2014 IMO. More than enough videos, in depth statistics, testimonials, etc. out there.
 
SneakerPro said:
Man what?
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Players and to a lesser extent coaches have a harder time making the sensible, most logical decisions in regards to running a team. These "Analytics experts" study the game extensively, and through that find certain patterns that are either successful or not and formulate their basketball decisions on that and I personally would trust that. When you are a player you kind of have a skewed idea on what it takes to win and often times a player's idea on what it takes for a team to be successful is in direct conflict with the facts.
 
This article sums up why I trust a former player/coach over an inexperienced analytics guy

A former player/coach have years of dealing with team building and dynamics

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...ce-stats-keeping-ex-nba-players-front-offices

It's said numbers never lie, but apparently they can also get you a front-office job in the NBA.

There is a growing concern that the rise in the popularity of basketball analytics (such as player efficiency rating and true shooting percentage) has led to more stat-based personnel hires rather than ex-players becoming general managers.

One former star in the NBA with years of front office experience said that there is a divide within front offices between those who are perceived to be stat guys and those who are considered basketball lifers.

"Basketball guys who participated in the game through years of rigorous training and practice, decades of observation work through film and field participation work feel under-utilized and under-appreciated and are quite insulted because their PhDs in basketball have been downgraded," the former executive, who chose to remain anonymous, told ESPN NBA Insider Chris Broussard.

One longtime executive, who also chose to remain anonymous, postulated that one reason why so many jobs are going to people with greater analytical backgrounds is because newer and younger owners may better identify with them.

"Generally speaking, neither the [newer generation of] owners nor the analytic guys have basketball in their background," the longtime executive told Broussard. "This fact makes it easy for both parties to dismiss the importance of having experience in and knowledge of the game.

"Most new owners come from the financial world so they rely on analytics as an important part of their business models outside of the NBA. In the attempt to better understand the game [of basketball], the newer owners put analytic-minded guys in place to run their organizations who utilize similar methods and techniques that are familiar to them. There is a comfort level for both parties."

That same executive however also noted that statistics have always played a part in the game of basketball.

"Numbers and statistics have been a part of every organizations' evaluation process for years," the longtime executive said. "The new methods of extracting the information/data is where the improvement has occurred."

But while both executives agree a greater understanding and use of metrics should be part of player evaluation, both think the issue resides in an over-reliance on stats and that is what is ultimately keeping basketball guys from moving into the front office.

"The [analytics] narrative is hurting basketball PhD thinkers right now," the ex-player said. "However, if numbers never lie, the basketball PhD thinkers have won more championships by far than the uneducated analytics guy."
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shoeking2101 said:
SneakerPro said:
Man what?
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Players and to a lesser extent coaches have a harder time making the sensible, most logical decisions in regards to running a team. These "Analytics experts" study the game extensively, and through that find certain patterns that are either successful or not and formulate their basketball decisions on that and I personally would trust that. When you are a player you kind of have a skewed idea on what it takes to win and often times a player's idea on what it takes for a team to be successful is in direct conflict with the facts.
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You do realize Pat Riley, Larry Bird and Jerry West played in the NBA right?

Name me one analytics guy that has ever built a champion
 
SneakerPro said:
You do realize Pat Riley, Larry Bird and Jerry West played in the NBA right?

Name me one analytics guy that has ever built a champion
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Not sure if he really is a analytics guy, but I don't think Larry Brown played for the NBA

Edit: Yea I guess he just played in the ABA before the merger, He should coach CAVS.
 
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SneakerPro said:
 
bilboshmangins said:
THAT BOY BARI WAS COOKIN! With that being said...
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Its getting played out but I
laugh.gif
every time.
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I only post it every 100 pages though...
 
Zyzz said:
PACQTARD said:
SneakerPro said:
You do realize Pat Riley, Larry Bird and Jerry West played in the NBA right?


Name me one analytics guy that has ever built a champion
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Not sure if he really is a analytics guy, but I don't think Larry Brown played for the NBA
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he didnt

just college
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I don't know what Larry Brown has to do with anything a former player built the team that got him his only NBA championship further illustrating my point.
 
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SneakerPro said:
You do realize Pat Riley, Larry Bird and Jerry West played in the NBA right?

Name me one analytics guy that has ever built a champion
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Are we talking executives and GM's who've never played in the NBA or just coaches?

Spoelstra, Jerry Buss, Red Aurbach, Larry Brown, Adleman has been very successful in the NBA although he hasn't won the big one, Pop in San Antonio, Cuban in Dallas, I could go on.

I mean they are out there.
 
SneakerPro said:
I don't know what Larry Brown has to do with anything a former player built the team that got him his only NBA championship further illustrating my point.
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OOps my bad, wasn't caught up in the convo, but I'm sure he had a say in recruiting

Yep the Cuban S/O @shoeking2101  
 
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shoeking2101 said:
SneakerPro said:
You do realize Pat Riley, Larry Bird and Jerry West played in the NBA right?

Name me one analytics guy that has ever built a champion
Click to expand...

Are we talking executives and GM's who've never played in the NBA or just coaches?

Spoelstra, Jerry Buss, Red Aurbach, Larry Brown, Adleman has been very successful in the NBA although he hasn't won the big one, Pop in San Antonio, Cuban in Dallas, I could go on.

I mean they are out there.
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You said you wouldn't a former player as GM over an analytics guy.

How the hell Red Aurbach is analytics guy is beyond me.
 
Freeze said:
Mister Friendly said:
Freeze said:
They should never allow players to play gm. Most of these ****** went to the L because they couldnt pass the SATs, or the fact they were only show pony's in college. Most of these ****** can't even form legit sentences. You can't just randomly make them chess grandmasters in regards to creating the avengers. ***** think because they can do one thing really well, that can bleeds into other parts of their lives. You go to war with the soldiers you have. You don't gut army for one soldier on the other side. Sun Tsu *** *****
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Where are you getting this from?

Most of the NBA players have been to college

Most are relatively smart compared to the general public

I would trust a former player/coach being a GM over some analytics expert
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Well I was referring to Lebron in this case. But most of the players are you're referring to did the one and done. You can find countless reports of guys getting passed through classes because of their on court skills, so don't give me that. And you last line...fair enough, they're on the ouside looking in, but a current player dictating the team moves...:x. When you're too close you can never see the bigger picture. Even still, you think the former player/ coach are making all of the decisions alone? you probably think coaches are the ones that draw the plays too huh? Those analytical guys are the life blood of every team.
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No you just heard the negative stories but the majority of NBA players are average students in college

Lebron isn't nowhere close to being a dumb guy, you can call him alot things but dumb isn't one, his business acumen is top notch

You need a balance between close to the team and being able to relate to circumstances and being distant enough to make clear decisions

Most professional GMs even if they are a former player or coach don't hang around the team all the time, there's just too many things to do to have time for that

Head coaches don't draw all the plays, they have coordinators and they also have scouting reports of what plays work well against a certain team from the advance scouting
 
SneakerPro said:
You said you wouldn't a former player as GM over an analytics guy.

How the hell Red Aurbach is analytics guy is beyond me.
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Spo is an analytics guy. He's won.

Pop is an analytics guy. He's won.

Cuban has went on record and said there's value to the analytics movement. He's won.
 
Look, To predict success in the NBA with deafening accuracy is an extremely tall task. Simply put, we can't predict the future.

However, by studying trends and patterns that follow success over a period of time, you can gather a sense of what is working in the NBA and what isn't. From that vantage point, I would 100% trust someone who had a grade A handle on Analytics and understood it's place in the NBA game today.
 
shoeking2101 said:
SneakerPro said:
You said you wouldn't a former player as GM over an analytics guy.

How the hell Red Aurbach is analytics guy is beyond me.
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Spo is an analytics guy. He's won.

Pop is an analytics guy. He's won.

Cuban has went on record and said there's value to the analytics movement. He's won.
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How is Pop an analytics guy?

And neither Spo or Cuban are GMs so why are bringing them up?

Like Spo coached a team built by a former player what the hell are you talking about you said you wouldn't trust a former player as a GM over an analytics expert.

If meant something different say that.
 
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I said I would trust a former player or coach

Not every coach is going to play in the NBA

The GM should have at least played at a high level which is at least in college

Popovich played in college, Spoelstra did too

Theres a difference between a coach who understands analytics and your John Hollinger type of guy
 
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