QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[DeadsetAce]

Guess who was on Kearse on the end of the 3rd quarter drop? Malcolm Butler. On a pick route.

Kid learned real damn fast.

the word is that butler was getting KILLED in practice all week on those goal line pick plays. so much so that at one point, bill stopped practice and gave him some extra coaching. kid was prepared for it at the end of the game. jumped the route before the ball was out. and just bullied lockett for that ball. great ******* play by that kid. not bad for someone who barely made the squad.

 

[elpablo21]

got ******* damn

give it a rest

 

[CP1708]

There it is.

3rd and 14, Brady hits Edelman and Kam murders him, but he gets 21.
Next play, screen to Vereen for 9, Earl Thomas late hit, 15 more.

Huge plays back to back. Edelman is the Walking dead at this point, his knees are rubber.

 

[a55a5in11]

That late hit was a garbage call. That and the pass interference on Lockett that wasn't called

 

[Hahahaha]

Both teams had injuries and both teams had chances to win. That's it, cut and dry. Seattle has enough talent to make up for their injuries and a simple handoff would have proved it.

 

[DeadsetAce]

That late hit was a garbage call. That and the pass interference on Lockett that wasn't called

thought the late hit was an OK call. the contact is made well out of bounds even though earl launched from in bounds

that missed PI, though...i agree. that should have been called. definitely a missed call by the refs.

 

[a55a5in11]

That late hit was a garbage call. That and the pass interference on Lockett that wasn't called

thought the late hit was an OK call. the contact is made well out of bounds even though earl launched from in bounds

that missed PI, though...i agree. that should have been called. definitely a missed call by the refs.

Yeah I just think it wasn't a good flag si ce the refs were letting them play the whole game. Earl went for the tackle when both players were in bounds.

 

[CP1708]

Know who the PI was? Butler.

That kid was on the Kearse drop, the non call PI, the Kearse miracle, and the INT. Unbelievable. Truly, unbelievable.

The ET late hit was fair, Vereen was well out.

 

[elpablo21]

Both teams had injuries and both teams had chances to win. That's it, cut and dry. Seattle has enough talent to make up for their injuries and a simple handoff would have proved it.

all that matters to me

end of the day

one yard line

**** Bevell

 

[illoquent aka dsk]

Lost in all the lure of Butler's INT was this.

Fat chance, right? Tom is a master at sneaking for yards, Seahawks have small-ish front linemen that might have trouble pushing back the LOS, emotions were still running high after the last play. All of that might be true, but to reference an earlier post...you can't ever take **** for granted in this league. And if the previous sequence of events taught you anything, it's that there was no sure guarantee the offense would've made it out of this.

Bobbled snap or transfer, Kam pulling another Troy Polamalu jump, etc., **** who the hell knows. 

Also...theoretically, Seattle had 2 shots here. Let's say the Pats don't gain anything and are stopped right where they are. Or maybe they get a few inches. Seahawks could quickly burn their last timeout and try it one more time. Or maybe they get it done in that screenshot. 20 seconds was enough time to get a safety, get the ball back in good field position, gain some yards in (presumably) soft coverage, and use that timeout to set up the game-winning FG. Highly unlikely? Yes. Impossible? Nope. The point is...it's the Superbowl and plays still need to be made before the clock strikes zero. New England wasn't completely safe and the least you could do is force them to make routine plays in the most pressurized situations of their lives.

It's never gonna be part of the story and that's fine. Doesn't need to be. It's just something I noted about the end.

 

[DeadsetAce]

^ i calmed down quick as **** when i realized the ball was on the 1 yard line. straight up said, this ain't over just yet. like you said, god knows what could happen. we've seen just about everything break our hearts before. can't believe seattle jumped...bennett has a tendency to jump and they got him. was huge.

 

[Clyde Frog]

That's a sweet picture. It's like you don't even need to know the context but you can still tell there's an intense context. Or something.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

 

Guess who was on Kearse on the end of the 3rd quarter drop? Malcolm Butler. On a pick route.

Kid learned real damn fast.

the word is that butler was getting KILLED in practice all week on those goal line pick plays. so much so that at one point, bill stopped practice and gave him some extra coaching. kid was prepared for it at the end of the game. jumped the route before the ball was out. and just bullied lockett for that ball. great ******* play by that kid. not bad for someone who barely made the squad.

Reminds me of how they said Tyree had the worst practice of his life the day before the SB when he had the helmet catch.

These big games always seem to have that unexpected hero.  If Seattle won it would have been Chris Matthews who came out of nowhere to propel them to victory.

 

[elpablo21]

[h1]Where QB tiers were right, wrong[/h1][h3]Plus a look at why Ben Roethlisberger will move up and Peyon Manning down[/h3]

Originally Published:  February 6, 2015
By Mike Sando  | ESPN Insider

I

AP Photo/Gene J. PuskarBen Roethlisberger threw 20 touchdown passes against teams that finished with a winning record.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Super Bowl MVP Tom Brady  will surely remain where 26 NFL coaches and evaluators voted theNew England Patriots  quarterback entering the 2014 season: solidly in the top tier of players  at the position.

While Brady validated his credentials, the recently completed 2014 NFL season could change perceptions for some of the quarterbacks we evaluated over the summer. Another survey will be helpful once teams without clear starters gain clarity at the position. In the meantime, here's a look at quarterbacks who could move up, quarterbacks who could move down, what the survey got right (or wrong) and why a quarterbacks coach from another team thinks Russell Wilson's late interception in the Super Bowl shouldn't work against him in future evaluations.
[h3]QBs who could move up[/h3]

Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers

Some of the voters thought Roethlisberger had declined from the top tier into the second group. He was seventh overall in the voting and trailed only Philip Riversamong players in the second tier. Six of the 26 voters did think he belonged in the top tier. More could agree after Roethlisberger threw 20 touchdown passes with only two interceptions against teams that finished with a winning record. The Steelers went 6-1 in those games.

Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys

It was striking to see what Romo could do when allowed to function behind an elite offensive line and within a system that leaned heavily on a powerful running game. Coaches and evaluators expect top-tier quarterbacks to play that way even without benefiting from the ground game that drove Dallas' offense. Still, there is no question 2014 represented an improvement for Romo.

Carson Palmer, Arizona Cardinals
Palmer received three votes in the second tier, 17 in the third tier and six in the fourth tier. He ranked 11th in Total QBR this past season, however, and one of the panelists who placed Palmer in the third tier before the season said this more recently: "Carson Palmer is a '2' when healthy." That was clear before Palmer suffered a knee injury last season.

Ryan Tannehill, Miami Dolphins
Tannehill ranked 23rd out of 32 projected starters heading into the season, placing him second-to-last among nine players in the third tier. He received nine fourth-tier votes entering the season. That number should shrink quite a bit after Tannehill set career bests in a wide range of statistical categories, including passer rating (92.8, which was 14th) and QBR (59.1, or 15th).

Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks
Wilson was solidly in the second tier, tying for eighth overall with Romo, Matt Ryanand Eli Manning. Three voters put him in the top tier, 14 put him in the second tier and nine put him in the third. I could see some of those third-tier votes shifting higher if more coaches and evaluators start viewing Wilson the way Miami Dolphins cornerback Brent Grimes  described him during a conversation we had at the Pro Bowl. Grimes: "He isn't the traditional guy, but when it comes down to just basics -- can he make accurate throws and make all the throws? -- he can definitely do that. He doesn't make a lot of mistakes and when they need big plays, he makes them. You hear a lot about their defense and it is amazing, but I believe that he is a big, big part of their team winning games."

---

[h3]QBs who could move down[/h3]

Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos
A healthy Manning is obviously a Tier 1 quarterback as long as he does not retire. We saw that when Manning opened last season with 22 touchdown passes against only three interceptions. The way a diminished Manning played later in the season will raise concerns until there's some evidence he's back in form physically.

Matthew Stafford, Detroit Lions
Stafford ranked near the bottom of the second tier as coaches and evaluators watched to see whether a new coaching staff could maximize his obvious physical gifts. The Lions wound up winning with defense. They said they were happy with the way Stafford reduced turnovers, but is anyone going to feel great about where Stafford is headed?

Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49ers
Kaepernick came in right behind Stafford near the bottom of the second tier after voters gave him 14 second-tier votes, 11 third-tier votes and one in the fourth tier. I would expect perceptions to shift harder into the third tier after a rough season for the 49ers. Kaepernick's year-by-year QBR scores have fallen from 72.2 (2012) to 68.6 (2013) to 55.9 (2014).

Jay Cutler, Chicago Bears
Cutler finished 17th overall and trailed only Cam Newton  in the third tier, which served as a warning beacon for what awaited the Bears last season. The gap between Cutler's perceived physical talent and level of play has only widened.

Robert Griffin III, Washington ********
Coaches and evaluators saw Griffin as a third-tier quarterback (tied for 19th overall) amid questions about his ability to bounce back from career-altering injury.

I expect Griffin to fall into the fourth tier after a rough 2014 season.


[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14877/nick-foles]Nick Foles, Philadelphia Eagles
The glass was half-full for Foles after he finished the 2013 season with 27 touchdowns and two interceptions. Perceptions will change after a tougher 2014 season. Foles saw his dropbacks per game climb from 27.9 in 2013 to 40.8 last season, the largest increase in the league for regular starters. Kaepernick and Cutler trended similarly, likely at the expense of efficiency. Romo and Joe Flacco  were among the quarterbacks who trended toward fewer dropbacks. Their efficiency improved.

---

[h3]What the survey got right[/h3]
The 15 quarterbacks who finished in the top two tiers kept their starting jobs (Foles, the lowest-ranked starter in the second tier, lost his job to injury). Ten of the 17 quarterbacks voted into the third and fourth tiers lost their jobs for performance-related reasons. Three others -- Carson Palmer, Sam Bradford  and Matt Cassel  -- wound up suffering season-ending injuries. That left only Cam Newton, Alex Smith, Andy Dalton  and Ryan Tannehill standing from the lower tiers.

There was some debate about whether Andrew Luck  belonged in the top tier already, but I would not expect voters to think less of him following the 2014 season.

---

[h3]What the survey got wrong[/h3]
Yes, Ryan Fitzpatrick  lost his job to Ryan Mallett  last season, but he might belong closer to the third tier than to the fourth (he received 10 fifth-tier votes in the survey and finished 30th overall, ahead of only Jake Locker  and Geno Smith). I do not expect coaches and evaluators to reverse course on Fitzpatrick, but his numbers over the past five seasons are nearly identical to the ones Cutler and Dalton have put up. Only Romo has gotten less defensive support than Fitzpatrick among regular starters, as detailed in this previous column.

[h4]Revisited: 2014 Survey of 26 Coaches & Personnel Evaluators[/h4][table][tr][th=""]Tier[/th][th=""]QB[/th][th=""]Avg[/th][th=""]1 Votes[/th][th=""]2 Votes[/th][th=""]3 Votes[/th][th=""]4 Votes[/th][th=""]5 Votes[/th][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]Aaron Rodgers[/td][td]1.04[/td][td]25[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]Drew Brees[/td][td]1.04[/td][td]25[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]Peyton Manning[/td][td]1.04[/td][td]25[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]Tom Brady[/td][td]1.04[/td][td]25[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]Andrew Luck[/td][td]1.50[/td][td]14[/td][td]11[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Philip Rivers[/td][td]1.77[/td][td]7[/td][td]18[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Ben Roethlisberger[/td][td]1.85[/td][td]6[/td][td]18[/td][td]2[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Matt Ryan[/td][td]2.23[/td][td]0[/td][td]20[/td][td]6[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Eli Manning[/td][td]2.23[/td][td]2[/td][td]17[/td][td]6[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Tony Romo[/td][td]2.23[/td][td]1[/td][td]18[/td][td]7[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Russell Wilson[/td][td]2.23[/td][td]3[/td][td]14[/td][td]9[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Joe Flacco[/td][td]2.31[/td][td]2[/td][td]14[/td][td]10[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Matthew Stafford[/td][td]2.38[/td][td]0[/td][td]17[/td][td]8[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Colin Kaepernick[/td][td]2.50[/td][td]0[/td][td]14[/td][td]11[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Nick Foles[/td][td]2.56[/td][td]1[/td][td]12[/td][td]9[/td][td]3[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Cam Newton[/td][td]2.58[/td][td]0[/td][td]12[/td][td]13[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Jay Cutler*[/td][td]2.62[/td][td]0[/td][td]10[/td][td]16[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Alex Smith[/td][td]2.96[/td][td]0[/td][td]4[/td][td]19[/td][td]3[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Andy Dalton[/td][td]3.00[/td][td]0[/td][td]3[/td][td]20[/td][td]3[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Robert Griffin*[/td][td]3.00[/td][td]0[/td][td]5[/td][td]15[/td][td]5[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Carson Palmer[/td][td]3.12[/td][td]0[/td][td]3[/td][td]17[/td][td]6[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Sam Bradford[/td][td]3.12[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]20[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Ryan Tannehill[/td][td]3.32[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]15[/td][td]9[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Josh McCown*[/td][td]3.52[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]14[/td][td]9[/td][td]2[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Matt Schaub*[/td][td]3.58[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]10[/td][td]14[/td][td]1[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Chad Henne*[/td][td]4.15[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]4[/td][td]14[/td][td]8[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]EJ Manuel*[/td][td]4.24[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]15[/td][td]8[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Matt Cassel[/td][td]4.27[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]3[/td][td]13[/td][td]10[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Brian Hoyer*[/td][td]4.28[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]14[/td][td]9[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Ryan Fitzpatrick*[/td][td]4.35[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]15[/td][td]10[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Jake Locker*[/td][td]4.42[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]13[/td][td]12[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Geno Smith*[/td][td]4.48[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]13[/td][td]12[/td][/tr][tr][td]* denotes players benched for performance-related reasons[/td][/tr][/table]
[/url]

 

[pacificnorsewst]

Tannehill doesn't get talked about a lot. He's in that middle rung where he won't be in any elite chatter, he's overlooked by the flashier and more hyped younger crowd, but he's definitely not to be mentioned with the QB dung of the league. He's just...there.

I got to watch him a few times last season and I came away pretty impressed. His improvement from season to season is steady and if he can take a few more steps, he could be a really good one for awhile. He most definitely has all the tools.

 

[a55a5in11]

Tannehill started slow and finished strong. Should have a great season.
Philbin though

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Tannehill has a little too much Alex Smith in San Francisco for me.

The man can't complete a deep pass

 

[CP1708]

He can, just fine.

Helps when your receivers actually hold on to the passes that hit their hands. See Sims, Hartline, Williams, Wallace drops vs NE, @ Buffalo, @ NE and pick one.

Tanne can put the ball on a line 65-67 yards. Not sure Alex can do that.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

He can, just fine.

Helps when your receivers actually hold on to the passes that hit their hands. See Sims, Hartline, Williams, Wallace drops vs NE, @ Buffalo, @ NE and pick one.

Tanne can put the ball on a line 65-67 yards. Not sure Alex can do that.

I trust your opinion but in the games I've saw it wasn't there and statiscally he's one of the worst deep ball passers in the NFL

 

[CP1708]

He is, statistically. No argument. Not all on him tho.

One, is drops. Another piece was play design. Great write up last year showed it, RT and Peyton running exact play, only diff was drop depth for Ryan + opposite hash made for much longer throw/time to recover, whereas Denver's was done perfect, throw complete.

Lastly, Wallace was HORRIBLE adjusting to the ball. Think Russ 3 lobs in the Super Bowl, great adjustments by Matthews. Wallace fights the ball/defender rather than grabbing it. Ryan has to place the ball perfectly or Wallace loses it. It's infuriating. And blame falls on Ryan, not Mike.

Devin Smith would be a good fit, someone who can adjust to the ball in flight, not a straight line speed guy like Wallace.

 

[CP1708]

In regards to some of the talk in the Dolphins thread about upcoming QB extensions, figured I would put this in here.

View media item 1395131

 

[mister friendly]

Where's Russell Wilson?

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Throwing picks.

 

[dmxfury]

He will be on there very shortly

Discussions with Ben and Pitt have begun

 

[The Glove]

Where's Russell Wilson?

only made about 800k this year