QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[CP1708]

Also, since it hasn't been posted on this page yet:

View media item 1389500

Seattle has a great defense - check

QBR - the magical stat that rated Matt Ryan, Flacco and Eli Manning better than your Golden Child Luck.

[QUOTE url="[URL]http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff[/URL]"]
It's time to stop pretending that Wilson is only good because he's on a team with a strong run game and defense. Seattle's offense finished fifth in weighted DVOA (measures efficiency, not rate stats) in 2014 -- a feat they simply could not have accomplished without Wilson captaining the offense -- both in the run game and the passing game.

[QUOTE url="[URL]http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff2014[/URL]"]
Similar to how Lynch and Wilson relied on each other in a symbiotic run-game relationship, so too did Seattle's offense and defense. Seattle's offensive group helped the defense establish itself as the cream of the crop by consistently putting together long drives (averaged over 3:00 per drive, third in the NFL), dominating time of possession (third in the NFL at over 32 minutes per game), and by scoring at a consistently high rate (ninth most points per drive). This despite the fact that Wilson was by far the most pressured quarterback in the NFL (on 34 percent of dropbacks). Seattle doesn't pick their linemen because they're good in pass pro, you see, but Wilson was still second in pass DVOA (value per play) when under pressure.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE url="[MEDIA=twitter]598219366631657474[/MEDIA]"]
If you're still not convinced, consider this stat, because it helps paint a picture of what kind of passer a quarterback really is without pressure and volume involved. In 2014, Wilson finished third in passing DVOA among quarterbacks when facing no pressure, behind only Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo. In other words -- when Wilson could sit back and throw without a defender instantly in his face, he balled out.
[/QUOTE]

[/quote]

So........

When he has ONE, completion midway thru the first half, of the Super Bowl.........he's symbiotically helping his defense, and covering for his Oline, chosen for their run blocking talents? Run blocking you say?????

And then, he throws up not 1, not 2, not 3, but four different "jump ball" passes that the Foot Locker guy goes up and gets, or another receiver catches, while laying on his back.........I need to credit Russ, for those plays?

Or the 2 point conversion, across the field, lobbed like a Tiger Woods wedge from the bunker, that the defender makes no attempt on, I credit Russ, for that throw?????

And minutes per possession...........isn't that a run control stat? Ala, Lynch effectively carrying the ball, chewing clock.

Or am I misunderstanding all these fine stats?

 

[jayfiend]

This thread is full of reasons why that guy is Avg... You either choose to see the truth or don't that's your buisness...

 

[100027]

This thread is full of reasons why that guy is Avg... You either choose to see the truth or don't that's your buisness...

You should show some reasons about Russell Wilson why he is average.

"His teammates are good" is not such a reason.  

I don't think most football analysts, coaches, or players agree with you on what "the truth is".  But I digress...

 

[dmxfury]

Winning overinflates our values of QB and losing has us overlook QBs too much. On the most basic level

 

[dmxfury]

Wilson definitely isn't average

 

[elpablo21]

 

 

Also, since it hasn't been posted on this page yet:

Seattle has a great defense - check

QBR - the magical stat that rated Matt Ryan, Flacco and Eli Manning better than your Golden Child Luck.

It's time to stop pretending that Wilson is only good because he's on a team with a strong run game and defense. Seattle's offense finished fifth in weighted DVOA (measures efficiency, not rate stats) in 2014 -- a feat they simply could not have accomplished without Wilson captaining the offense -- both in the run game and the passing game.

Similar to how Lynch and Wilson relied on each other in a symbiotic run-game relationship, so too did Seattle's offense and defense. Seattle's offensive group helped the defense establish itself as the cream of the crop by consistently putting together long drives  (averaged over 3:00 per drive, third in the NFL), dominating time of possession (third in the NFL at over 32 minutes per game), and by scoring at a consistently high rate (ninth most points per drive). This despite the fact that Wilson was by far the most pressured  quarterback in the NFL (on 34 percent of dropbacks). Seattle doesn't pick their linemen because they're good in pass pro, you see, but Wilson was still second in pass DVOA  (value per play) when under pressure.

If you're still not convinced, consider this stat, because it helps paint a picture of what kind of passer a quarterback really is without pressure and volume involved. In 2014, Wilson finished third in passing DVOA  among quarterbacks when facing no pressure, behind only Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo. In other words -- when Wilson could sit back and throw without a defender instantly in his face, he balled out.

So........

When he has ONE, completion midway thru the first half, of the Super Bowl.........he's symbiotically helping his defense, and covering for his Oline, chosen for their run blocking talents?

Run blocking you say?????

And then, he throws up not 1, not 2, not 3, but four different "jump ball" passes that the Foot Locker guy goes up and gets, or another receiver catches, while laying on his back.........I need to credit Russ, for those plays?

Or the 2 point conversion, across the field, lobbed like a Tiger Woods wedge from the bunker, that the defender makes no attempt on, I credit Russ, for that throw?????

And minutes per possession...........isn't that a run control stat?

Ala, Lynch effectively carrying the ball, chewing clock.

Or am I misunderstanding all these fine stats?

Who said you should praise russ for the 2pt. conversion? and the pass to Kearse?  please point that out, thanks

Yes, an Oline choosen for their run blocking talents a philosophy Pete has followed prior to drafting Russ...but that's a knock on Russ..right? 

and run control stat yes, in which a QB who ran for 849 yards contributed to with Marshawn   

He can't get credit for passes to Foot Locker guy, but every pass anyone else makes...it's as good as gold right? 

 

 

[jayfiend]

You should show some reasons about Russell Wilson why he is average.

"His teammates are good" is not such a reason.  


I don't think most football analysts, coaches, or players agree with you on what "the truth is".  But I digress...

Russell Wilson greatest thing is for the most part he doesn't turn the ball over...

He's avg to me because he makes most of his plays with his legs... And going against a defense that can contain that he doesn't do very well from what I've seen...

He's not the most accurate from what I've seen either especially from the pocket... And know I don't care about his stats I'm telling what I see when I watch him play...

On top of that he's put in position to win by that defense several times a game... Just by the defense pinning the opposing teams offense on their own side of the field...

What reason would I have to go against him? I'm only telling you what I see... Don't have anything against the kid think he's a good guy... But I Also think that him being a good guy is why everybody props him up...

He's the QB on a winning team so he's gonna get props that maybe he doesn't deserve... Because it's a QB's league they take all the blame and they take all the glory..

Who else are they gonna give it to? Sherman is an *******... And Lynch doesn't talk to the media.

 

[CP1708]

 

 

Also, since it hasn't been posted on this page yet:

View media item 1389500

Seattle has a great defense - check


QBR - the magical stat that rated Matt Ryan, Flacco and Eli Manning better than your Golden Child Luck.
[QUOTE url="[URL]http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff[/URL]"]
It's time to stop pretending that Wilson is only good because he's on a team with a strong run game and defense. Seattle's offense finished fifth in weighted DVOA (measures efficiency, not rate stats) in 2014 -- a feat they simply could not have accomplished without Wilson captaining the offense -- both in the run game and the passing game.

[QUOTE url="[URL]http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff2014[/URL]"]
Similar to how Lynch and Wilson relied on each other in a symbiotic run-game relationship, so too did Seattle's offense and defense. Seattle's offensive group helped the defense establish itself as the cream of the crop by consistently putting together long drives (averaged over 3:00 per drive, third in the NFL), dominating time of possession (third in the NFL at over 32 minutes per game), and by scoring at a consistently high rate (ninth most points per drive). This despite the fact that Wilson was by far the most pressured quarterback in the NFL (on 34 percent of dropbacks). Seattle doesn't pick their linemen because they're good in pass pro, you see, but Wilson was still second in pass DVOA (value per play) when under pressure.

[QUOTE url="[MEDIA=twitter]598219366631657474[/MEDIA]"]
If you're still not convinced, consider this stat, because it helps paint a picture of what kind of passer a quarterback really is without pressure and volume involved. In 2014, Wilson finished third in passing DVOA among quarterbacks when facing no pressure, behind only Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo. In other words -- when Wilson could sit back and throw without a defender instantly in his face, he balled out.

[/QUOTE]


So........


When he has ONE, completion midway thru the first half, of the Super Bowl.........he's symbiotically helping his defense, and covering for his Oline, chosen for their run blocking talents? Run blocking you say?????


And then, he throws up not 1, not 2, not 3, but four different "jump ball" passes that the Foot Locker guy goes up and gets, or another receiver catches, while laying on his back.........I need to credit Russ, for those plays?


Or the 2 point conversion, across the field, lobbed like a Tiger Woods wedge from the bunker, that the defender makes no attempt on, I credit Russ, for that throw?????


And minutes per possession...........isn't that a run control stat? Ala, Lynch effectively carrying the ball, chewing clock.


Or am I misunderstanding all these fine stats?[/QUOTE]
Who said you should praise russ for the 2pt. conversion? and the pass to Kearse?  please point that out, thanks

Yes, an Oline choosen for their run blocking talents a philosophy Pete has followed prior to drafting Russ...but that's a knock on Russ..right? 

and run control stat yes, in which a QB who ran for 849 yards contributed to with Marshawn   

He can't get credit for passes to Foot Locker guy, but every pass anyone else makes...it's as good as gold right? 

 
[/quote]

I think you missed what I was countering.

You posted DVOABCDEFG stats, etc. That count his "effectiveness" passing the ball. Hence, the one completion 22 minutes into A SUPER BOWL, before he started throwing jump balls.

Or how he had 70ish yards thru 57 minutes of the NFCCG.

Counters to those stats they are using.

Surely we all agree he is great at running, I do not knock him for that, and I do agree that he and Lynch are helpful to each other in that respect.

But throwing? Naw. They are great at limiting turnovers, and playing to his strengths, but that doesn't make him a top 10 QB, imo. Playmaker? Sure. Exciting/fun to watch? No doubt. But as good a QB as guys like Ryan, Romo, Flacco, Ben, Rivers, etc? No sir.

He's a slower, smarter, more accurate Vick. Plays the same position, but in a completely different, unique way. Fast enough, but not Vick fast, but clearly much smarter than Mike.

 

[a55a5in11]

 

 

Also, since it hasn't been posted on this page yet:

View media item 1389500

Seattle has a great defense - check


QBR - the magical stat that rated Matt Ryan, Flacco and Eli Manning better than your Golden Child Luck.
[QUOTE url="[URL]http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff[/URL]"]
It's time to stop pretending that Wilson is only good because he's on a team with a strong run game and defense. Seattle's offense finished fifth in weighted DVOA (measures efficiency, not rate stats) in 2014 -- a feat they simply could not have accomplished without Wilson captaining the offense -- both in the run game and the passing game.

[QUOTE url="[URL]http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff2014[/URL]"]
Similar to how Lynch and Wilson relied on each other in a symbiotic run-game relationship, so too did Seattle's offense and defense. Seattle's offensive group helped the defense establish itself as the cream of the crop by consistently putting together long drives (averaged over 3:00 per drive, third in the NFL), dominating time of possession (third in the NFL at over 32 minutes per game), and by scoring at a consistently high rate (ninth most points per drive). This despite the fact that Wilson was by far the most pressured quarterback in the NFL (on 34 percent of dropbacks). Seattle doesn't pick their linemen because they're good in pass pro, you see, but Wilson was still second in pass DVOA (value per play) when under pressure.

[QUOTE url="[MEDIA=twitter]598219366631657474[/MEDIA]"]
If you're still not convinced, consider this stat, because it helps paint a picture of what kind of passer a quarterback really is without pressure and volume involved. In 2014, Wilson finished third in passing DVOA among quarterbacks when facing no pressure, behind only Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo. In other words -- when Wilson could sit back and throw without a defender instantly in his face, he balled out.

So........


When he has ONE, completion midway thru the first half, of the Super Bowl.........he's symbiotically helping his defense, and covering for his Oline, chosen for their run blocking talents? Run blocking you say?????


And then, he throws up not 1, not 2, not 3, but four different "jump ball" passes that the Foot Locker guy goes up and gets, or another receiver catches, while laying on his back.........I need to credit Russ, for those plays?


Or the 2 point conversion, across the field, lobbed like a Tiger Woods wedge from the bunker, that the defender makes no attempt on, I credit Russ, for that throw?????


And minutes per possession...........isn't that a run control stat? Ala, Lynch effectively carrying the ball, chewing clock.


Or am I misunderstanding all these fine stats?[/QUOTE]
Who said you should praise russ for the 2pt. conversion? and the pass to Kearse?  please point that out, thanks

Yes, an Oline choosen for their run blocking talents a philosophy Pete has followed prior to drafting Russ...but that's a knock on Russ..right? 

and run control stat yes, in which a QB who ran for 849 yards contributed to with Marshawn   

He can't get credit for passes to Foot Locker guy, but every pass anyone else makes...it's as good as gold right? 

 
[/quote]

I think you missed what I was countering.

You posted DVOABCDEFG stats, etc. That count his "effectiveness" passing the ball. Hence, the one completion 22 minutes into A SUPER BOWL, before he started throwing jump balls.

Or how he had 70ish yards thru 57 minutes of the NFCCG.

Counters to those stats they are using.

Surely we all agree he is great at running, I do not knock him for that, and I do agree that he and Lynch are helpful to each other in that respect.

But throwing? Naw. They are great at limiting turnovers, and playing to his strengths, but that doesn't make him a top 10 QB, imo. Playmaker? Sure. Exciting/fun to watch? No doubt. But as good a QB as guys like Ryan, Romo, Flacco, Ben, Rivers, etc? No sir.

He's a slower, smarter, more accurate Vick. Plays the same position, but in a completely different, unique way. Fast enough, but not Vick fast, but clearly much smarter than Mike.[/quote]

 

[100027]

Russell Wilson greatest thing is for the most part he doesn't turn the ball over...

He's avg to me because he makes most of his plays with his legs... And going against a defense that can contain that he doesn't do very well from what I've seen...

He's not the most accurate from what I've seen either especially from the pocket... And know I don't care about his stats I'm telling what I see when I watch him play...

On top of that he's put in position to win by that defense several times a game... Just by the defense pinning the opposing teams offense on their own side of the field...

What reason would I have to go against him? I'm only telling you what I see... Don't have anything against the kid think he's a good guy... But I Also think that him being a good guy is why everybody props him up...

He's the QB on a winning team so he's gonna get props that maybe he doesn't deserve... Because it's a QB's league they take all the blame and they take all the glory..

Who else are they gonna give it to? Sherman is an *******... And Lynch doesn't talk to the media.

Lots of "feelings". Not a single fact.

You have a right to your opinion of course. I'd encourage you to watch more Seahawks games over the last 3 seasons.

 

[jayfiend]

Lots of "feelings". Not a single fact.

You have a right to your opinion of course. I'd encourage you to watch more Seahawks games over the last 3 seasons.

man you can like who you like...!why should I be the 30h person to **** here on post all the facts when it's post all around you?

You coming at me for what? Cuz I don't like your Bae?

Is he the worst QB I've ever seen know but he's nowhere near the best not today not any day... I'm not gonna sit here and post all these stats stuff because they've been posted a thousand times you just don't care...

What can I Post that CP hasn't already posted or Chester

And if you include the playoffs I've seen more than 3 Seahawks games... But the playoffs is what really matters and I've seen ALL of those and I'm not ******* impressed deal with it.

 

[a55a5in11]

"He's Mike Vick, except he is completely different, but they both play QB"
Did i read that correct?

 

[Clyde Frog]

I like a shorter Donovan McNabb comparison better than slower Vick. McNabb always knew when to run and when not to. Russ is good at that.

I actually think a better McNabb is Russ' ceiling. Which is a compliment.

 

[elpablo21]

You posted two examples of miracle completions to counter those stats....that tilts the balance that much on those numbers? I doubt it.

and yes he should get credit for the passes to Foot Locker guy, he put the ball where his 6'5" receiver and only he could get it....you make it seem like those were some miracle plays where Footlocker guy had to make some god like maneuvering to save Russell's *** on those plays. 

You dont have him in your top 10 as a throwing quarterback, that's perfectly fine. 

but that doesn't make him a top 10 QB, imo. Playmaker? Sure.

but the Seahawks can win with anybody back there....without a top 10 playmaker at the quarterback position 

 

people love to point out the Broncos Superbowl as a hypothetical...as a hypothetical do the Seahawks even make it that far with T-Jack thru the Season?

 

[a55a5in11]

Lots of "feelings". Not a single fact.

You have a right to your opinion of course. I'd encourage you to watch more Seahawks games over the last 3 seasons.

man you can like who you like...!why should I be the 30h person to **** here on post all the facts when it's post all around you?

You coming at me for what? Cuz I don't like your Bae?

Is he the worst QB I've ever seen know but he's nowhere near the best not today not any day... I'm not gonna sit here and post all these stats stuff because they've been posted a thousand times you just don't care...

What can I Post that CP hasn't already posted or Chester

And if you include the playoffs I've seen more than 3 Seahawks games... But the playoffs is what really matters and I've seen ALL of those and I'm not ******* impressed deal with it.

So you think Luck is overrated too than?
What about Peyton?

 

[dmxfury]

Hawk fan taking over NT

 

[jayfiend]

So you think Luck is overrated too than?
What about Peyton?

I think Luck is the future and possible MVP this year... Guy has gotten his team further every year with and below avg defense and running game...

Peyton is one of the best I've ever seen... Won't go any deeper than that because I know why it starts... But he's one of the greatest...

 

[skurrtskurrt29]

Fix, correct, and erase mistakes.

ANY other team gives Aaron Rodgers the ball, with 4 INT's AND a fumble recovery, they gettin blowed out. BLOWED out.

Seattle does it. 19 points. Nineteen. On FIVE turnovers.

That doesn't "help" an offense?

Seattle gets a Safety, a Kick Return TD, and a pick 6, in the Super Bowl, holding Peyton Manning scoreless for over half the game, that doesn't help an offense?????

Really that hard to figure out?

Let me ask differently, since you're obviously not understanding...

How do they have any impact on his throwing ability, decision making, running ability, ect.

Because you guys love to always post random and irrelevant defense stats to prove why an offensive player isn't good, and that itself makes no sense. Of course a defense can help an offense, it's a team sport, but not everybody is Andrew Luck who can throw 6 picks a game and then throw himself out of a hole.

It's almost as if you can't accept the fact that he's not a bad player. Not the best quarterback, but nobody is arguing that, he's just a good player.

 

[a55a5in11]

I mean if 9 TD's 12 INT's in the playoffs impress you than so be it

 

[Lovetohate3000]

I mean if 9 TD's 12 INT's in the playoffs impress you than so be it

dude averages like 40 some attempts per playoff game out of necessity without a balanced offense and a horrible defense. 

russell wilson averages 20ish with a great running game and superior defense.stop being silly .

 game manager is what he is. top 10 qb he is not. maybe one day  he will be that. 

 

[skurrtskurrt29]

So basically, "He has to throw all those pick because his team sucks"

**** outta here

 

[a55a5in11]

I mean if 9 TD's 12 INT's in the playoffs impress you than so be it

dude averages like 40 some attempts per playoff game out of necessity without a balanced offense and a horrible defense. 

russell wilson averages 20ish with a great running game and superior defense.stop being silly .
 game manager is what he is. top 10 qb he is not. maybe one day  he will be that. 

And russ has more TD's though

 

[rolaholic]

What gets me about the whole Russ-Luck debate is that this is just the beginning

,this is gonna be the new Brady v Manning for the next decade 

 

 

[Lovetohate3000]

And russ has more TD's though

its definitely not harder to throw when everyone knows you have no running game. 

dude can go  9-18 in a playoff game with 100 yards passing and no touchdowns and still win a game. straight pee wee football stats right there. seahawks win in spite of him not because of him. 

 

[Chester McFloppy]

So basically, "He has to throw all those pick because his team sucks"

**** outta here

Russ averaged 188 total yards and 1 TD per game on the Super Bowl run. (103, 215, 206, 3 passing TDs, 11 rushes for 42 yards)

He went 9 of 18 for 103 yards in a playoff game and his team scored 23 points.

9 passes. 103 yards. Zero touchdowns. Team still puts up 23 points.

The Seahawks AVERAGED 29.6 points in that SB run with him putting up less than 190 YPG on ~22 passing attempts. Beast Mode -- the guy that Russ made better even though he was rushing for over 1000 yards and double digit touchdowns playing with guys named Trent Edwards, JP Losman, Charlie Whitehurst, and Tavaris Jackson -- accounted for more touchdowns than Russ.

The legendary defense also forced 8 turnovers in 3 games but eh, who cares?

Not everyone is afforded these luxuries. Not everyone can throw four interceptions in the divisional championship game and still come away with a win.