QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[a55a5in11]

I was speaking more on Montana on the throwing the ball like crazy part. If RW is a game manager alot of Montana's seasons mirrors RW's stats

You know damn well that you can't compare 1970-1980s football to 2010+ football when it comes to stats. FFS Joe led the league in TD passes with 17 one year. 49ers were constantly in the top 5 for passing yardage.

They were stacked, no doubt, but Joe would get his.

True but those 9ers were running an offense ahead of it's time
i mean teams are still using that offense today

 

[skurrtskurrt29]

Are you really not understanding the fact that if Luck doesnt try to make a ton if plays, his team loses?

Wilson has the luxury of choosing to not attempt to make a play and punting because he knows in a handful of plays he will be getting the ball back. Luck needs to attempt to make play after play so that his team can keep up with the other team.....which is why you see more turnovers.

Its the same with Alex Smith. Smith isnt some amazing QB because he dosnt throw a lot of picks. He just knows for his team, not throwing an interception is just as important as making a play.

I understand the concept fully.

My point is, the same rules don't seem to apply to him because his team isn't that great. He gets excuses made for him and it shouldn't matter that he threw X amount of picks because he's trying to make plays.

It's ********. There's guys who try just as hard and don't commit as many turnovers, so stop with this "he's just trying to make a play out there" garbage.

 

[CP1708]

Do we win the Super Bowl with T-Jack starting week 1?

How would I know that?

When Bledsoe went down, were the Patriots "winning" the Super Bowl with someone named Tom Brady? You, nor I would have known that, or said yes, now would we?

Is Russ better than Jack, yes, absolutely, but that doesn't mean it was impossible for Pete to find a way to make him useful in some way, right? Just like Bill managed with Tom.

 

[dland24]

I just dont undersnd why Seahawk fans are so touchy about Wilson. Its CRAZY to me. They have a historically good defense and get upset when NFL fans credit the D and not Russ. Makes no sense.

Since Russell Wilson has come into the league, the Seahawks have allowed an average of 11.8 points per game in wins. In losses? Allowed an average of 24.4 points per game.

This is an INCREDIBLY telling statistic. 11.8 points given up on average in wins. Does anyone here believe there is a single stating quarterback in the NFL that couldnt lead a offense to average 12 points a game alongside Marshawn Lynch?

Have you ever admitted yet that RW is better than Kaep?
Acting like yall weren't the same way for Kaep after that first season

Standard deflecting.

By yourself?

I bring up statistics about the Seahawks and Wilson, and your counterargument is bringing up Kaepernick out of the blue, and its ME who is deflecting?

Solid logic.

 

[jayfiend]

I understand the concept fully.

My point is, the same rules don't seem to apply to him because his team isn't that great. He gets excuses made for him and it shouldn't matter that he threw X amount of picks because he's trying to make plays.

It's ********. There's guys who try just as hard and don't commit as many turnovers, so stop with this "he's just trying to make a play out there" garbage.

A lot goes into it IMO...

First there is nobody else to look out for on that colts offense... Luck is it, going into that game defenses know this... There for the defense is scheming for the pass which makes passing a bigger challenge... So picks will happen IMO...

But going into a Seahawks game the #1 priority for the Defnese is Lynch... Safety's have to be disciplined can't cheat as much... Linebackers are at a disadvantage because of the play action... Etc which opens things up for a QB...

 

[a55a5in11]

Do we win the Super Bowl with T-Jack starting week 1?

How would I know that?

When Bledsoe went down, were the Patriots "winning" the Super Bowl with someone named Tom Brady? You, nor I would have known that, or said yes, now would we?

Is Russ better than Jack, yes, absolutely, but that doesn't mean it was impossible for Pete to find a way to make him useful in some way, right? Just like Bill managed with Tom.

He did with Tjax
7-9 record

 

[CP1708]

Do we win the Super Bowl with T-Jack starting week 1?

How would I know that?

When Bledsoe went down, were the Patriots "winning" the Super Bowl with someone named Tom Brady? You, nor I would have known that, or said yes, now would we?

Is Russ better than Jack, yes, absolutely, but that doesn't mean it was impossible for Pete to find a way to make him useful in some way, right? Just like Bill managed with Tom.

He did with Tjax
7-9 record

Exact same roster, exact same team?

 

[a55a5in11]

I just dont undersnd why Seahawk fans are so touchy about Wilson. Its CRAZY to me. They have a historically good defense and get upset when NFL fans credit the D and not Russ. Makes no sense.

Since Russell Wilson has come into the league, the Seahawks have allowed an average of 11.8 points per game in wins. In losses? Allowed an average of 24.4 points per game.

This is an INCREDIBLY telling statistic. 11.8 points given up on average in wins. Does anyone here believe there is a single stating quarterback in the NFL that couldnt lead a offense to average 12 points a game alongside Marshawn Lynch?

Have you ever admitted yet that RW is better than Kaep?
Acting like yall weren't the same way for Kaep after that first season

Standard deflecting.

By yourself?

I bring up statistics about the Seahawks and Wilson, and your counterargument is bringing up Kaepernick out of the blue, and its ME who is deflecting?

Solid logic.

Ok. So are you going to answer the question though?
You can clown on hawks fans all you want for being "touchy" about RW, but your 9er faithful was the same way with Kaep. Kind of ironic

 

[a55a5in11]

Do we win the Super Bowl with T-Jack starting week 1?

How would I know that?

When Bledsoe went down, were the Patriots "winning" the Super Bowl with someone named Tom Brady? You, nor I would have known that, or said yes, now would we?

Is Russ better than Jack, yes, absolutely, but that doesn't mean it was impossible for Pete to find a way to make him useful in some way, right? Just like Bill managed with Tom.

He did with Tjax
7-9 record

Exact same roster, exact same team?

better offensive talent
Defense was still great, ranked 7th in the league

 

[jayfiend]

Russell Wilson is smart he knows as long as he doesn't put that defense in a bad situation it's a very good chance they are going to win... That's easily his best attribute and it's a good one...

 

[CP1708]

Do we win the Super Bowl with T-Jack starting week 1?

How would I know that?

When Bledsoe went down, were the Patriots "winning" the Super Bowl with someone named Tom Brady? You, nor I would have known that, or said yes, now would we?

Is Russ better than Jack, yes, absolutely, but that doesn't mean it was impossible for Pete to find a way to make him useful in some way, right? Just like Bill managed with Tom.

He did with Tjax
7-9 record

Exact same roster, exact same team?

better offensive talent
Defense was still great, ranked 7th in the league

Little young tho, no? Pre Irvin, and pre Wagner, right? Sherm wasn't starting that Jack year, was he? Until late in the year?

 

[dland24]

Russell Wilson is currently a better quarterback than Colin Kaepernick. Does that make you happy?

And at your latest post. The 7th best defense in the NFL is considered a "great defense" now? Smfh.

 

[skurrtskurrt29]

A lot goes into it IMO...

First there is nobody else to look out for on that colts offense... Luck is it, going into that game defenses know this... There for the defense is scheming for the pass which makes passing a bigger challenge... So picks will happen IMO...

But going into a Seahawks game the #1 priority for the Defnese is Lynch... Safety's have to be disciplined can't cheat as much... Linebackers are at a disadvantage because of the play action... Etc which opens things up for a QB...

You're right, I'm not gonna dispute any of that. My point is: Why is Wilson's play directly tied to the defense?

I get it man, defenses can put their counterparts into great positions to make plays. I'm a Steelers fan, I get this as much as anybody. But that also takes away what that player contributed to the team THEMSELVES, and Russ isn't a horrible player that needs his defense to make plays for him and his offense to succeed. And if that truly was the case, why give a guy flak for doing what he's supposed to do? Isn't he supposed to capitalize off of turnovers and win ball games? How does that make you any less of a player? I don't get it.

 

[a55a5in11]

Do we win the Super Bowl with T-Jack starting week 1?

How would I know that?

When Bledsoe went down, were the Patriots "winning" the Super Bowl with someone named Tom Brady? You, nor I would have known that, or said yes, now would we?

Is Russ better than Jack, yes, absolutely, but that doesn't mean it was impossible for Pete to find a way to make him useful in some way, right? Just like Bill managed with Tom.

He did with Tjax
7-9 record

Exact same roster, exact same team?

better offensive talent
Defense was still great, ranked 7th in the league

Little young tho, no? Pre Irvin, and pre Wagner, right? Sherm wasn't starting that Jack year, was he? Until late in the year?

Yeah but Irvin isn't a game changer at all
CB's were Trufant, Browner, Sherm, Maxwell, Thurmond
Kam and Earl started and Earl was already a top safety
Hawthorne was great and got a big deal with NO after the season
Curry Started at OLB the year, but KJ finished and proved to be good
Still had Leroy Hill
WR's were Mike Williams, GT, Sidney. Which is 78192374891230 times better than what RW has worked with last season
Oline was somewhat decent

 

[Deleted member 37754]

[COLOR=#red]The crazy thing about this whole Russ thing... His own team doesn't value him as much as the fans.
They have signed everyone else except Russ. And I recall reading they are in talks with Bobby Wagner to re-sign.
The market is set, he's next to sign... Luck for sure isn't signing before him. Just think it's interesting unless I missed something. [/COLOR]

Didnt Russ already turn down a 4yr/80M contract?

[COLOR=#red]Don't believe so. Haven't see one thing on that at all.
You have any links to that?[/COLOR]

 

The crazy thing about this whole Russ thing... His own team doesn't value him as much as the fans.

They have signed everyone else except Russ. And I recall reading they are in talks with Bobby Wagner to re-sign.

The market is set, he's next to sign... Luck for sure isn't signing before him. Just think it's interesting unless I missed something.

Didnt Russ already turn down a 4yr/80M contract?

somewhere in the Cam Newton neighborhood is what I read, also 54mil Gtd...turned down

but the team doesnt value him?

and once again, the CBA did not allow for the team to extend or negotiate until this off-season with Russ

[COLOR=#red]Refuse to talk to the other one on this subject. I like Elpablo though... with that said...
Yes I know they didn't allow Russ to re-sign until this year. Same with Tannehill and countless other QBs before him with similar rookie deals since the CBA has been redone. That doesn't negate the fact the Seahawks have re-signed everyone else except Russ First.

I also keep seeing random seahawks fans throw out these contracts Russ has supposedly turned down... in this thread alone there was three different figures.
All I ask is to see the sources you guys are getting these numbers from.

Lastly I didn't say the team didn't value him.
The team values their defense much more than him, I am currently saying that.
What I said was:[/COLOR]

His own team doesn't value him as much as the fans.

[COLOR=#red]all you have to do is look in this thread... guys (CP) can't even dislike and make valid points of Russ without three people jumping down his throat about them. [/COLOR]

 

[a55a5in11]

Russell Wilson is currently a better quarterback than Colin Kaepernick. Does that make you happy?

And at your latest post. The 7th best defense in the NFL is considered a "great defense" now? Smfh.

Feels great
That defense was damn good started off slow but second half off the year didn't allow more than 23 points in a game

 

[a55a5in11]

[COLOR=#red]The crazy thing about this whole Russ thing... His own team doesn't value him as much as the fans.
They have signed everyone else except Russ. And I recall reading they are in talks with Bobby Wagner to re-sign.
The market is set, he's next to sign... Luck for sure isn't signing before him. Just think it's interesting unless I missed something. [/COLOR]

Didnt Russ already turn down a 4yr/80M contract?

[COLOR=#red]Don't believe so. Haven't see one thing on that at all.
You have any links to that?[/COLOR]

 

The crazy thing about this whole Russ thing... His own team doesn't value him as much as the fans.

They have signed everyone else except Russ. And I recall reading they are in talks with Bobby Wagner to re-sign.

The market is set, he's next to sign... Luck for sure isn't signing before him. Just think it's interesting unless I missed something.

Didnt Russ already turn down a 4yr/80M contract?

somewhere in the Cam Newton neighborhood is what I read, also 54mil Gtd...turned down

but the team doesnt value him?

and once again, the CBA did not allow for the team to extend or negotiate until this off-season with Russ

[COLOR=#red]Refuse to talk to the other one on this subject. I like Elpablo though... with that said...
Yes I know they didn't allow Russ to re-sign until this year. Same with Tannehill and countless other QBs before him with similar rookie deals since the CBA has been redone. That doesn't negate the fact the Seahawks have re-signed everyone else except Russ First.

I also keep seeing random seahawks fans throw out these contracts Russ has supposedly turned down... in this thread alone there was three different figures.
All I ask is to see the sources you guys are getting these numbers from.

Lastly I didn't say the team didn't value him.
The team values their defense much more than him, I am currently saying that.
What I said was:[/COLOR]

His own team doesn't value him as much as the fans.

[COLOR=#red]all you have to do is look in this thread... guys (CP) can't even dislike and make valid points of Russ without three people jumping down his throat about them. [/COLOR]

Except we all said we value him at around 20M per year, which according to sources is what he was offered
You need to wash yo face

 

[nooera]

Pretty sure i heard that 4yr/80M figure on NT

 

[Deleted member 37754]

[COLOR=#red]Reasoning proven as to why the other one gets ignored on this topic...
[/COLOR]

 

[Deleted member 37754]

Pretty sure i heard that 4yr/80M figure on NT

[COLOR=#red]
I've read that on here multiple times as well along with other figures (such as $25 mill for 4 years all guaranteed).
I'm not up in arms about this, I'm not against dude getting paid, nada. I think he's a good leader and great company man.
I just simply wanted proof of things and sources.
Crazy concept I know. Facts. Wild. [/COLOR]

 

[Chester McFloppy]

You're right, I'm not gonna dispute any of that. My point is: Why is Wilson's play directly tied to the defense?

I get it man, defenses can put their counterparts into great positions to make plays. I'm a Steelers fan, I get this as much as anybody. But that also takes away what that player contributed to the team THEMSELVES, and Russ isn't a horrible player that needs his defense to make plays for him and his offense to succeed. And if that truly was the case, why give a guy flak for doing what he's supposed to do? Isn't he supposed to capitalize off of turnovers and win ball games? How does that make you any less of a player? I don't get it.

I see both sides of this, tbh.

Other QBs don't currently have this benefit. Luck is a perfect example. Always brought up when people talk about Russ for some reason. He's a stud with a couple weapons... but who did they march out at RB in the AFCCG? Dan Herron? Zurlon Tipton? Vontae Davis is the best player on their defense. For the Colts to win he literally has to throw the ball 40 times. Handing the ball off to Zurlon Tipton 25 times ain't gonna scare anyone. Colts defense allowed 27+ points 8 times last season. 40+ points 4 times. I don't care who you are... winning those games for any QB would be tough.

The system matters. Russ is perfect for what they're running in Seattle. There are games where they take the training wheels off and Russ goes OFF (I had the face for the... ********? game last season when he went for like 300 in the air and 100 on the ground). They'll follow it up with a game where Marshawn is featured and Russ isn't asked to do much. It's not bad by any means because it works. Seattle knows what they're doing. Why risk it when you know what your bread-and-butter is? As a Steelers fan I know you can understand my Ben/Russ comparison (not size, player, skill but situation). Ben came in with training wheels and now he's an elite NFL QB. It doesn't make Russ any less of a player, but it doesn't put him among the elite as his position. When the day comes that the defense ain't exactly what it used to be and Beast Mode is on the beach eating skittles -- that's when we'll see what Russ is made of. I'm confident that he'll be fine.

 

[dmxfury]

But he had great defenses, he wasn't slinging the ball crazy like Luck was. So according to yall hes just a game manager

I hate that the word game a manage is a negative

A few game managers

Troy Aikman
Early Ben Roethlisberger
Phil Simms


Taking care of the ball and not taking extreme chances is not a negative

 

[skurrtskurrt29]

I see both sides of this, tbh.

Other QBs don't currently have this benefit. Luck is a perfect example. Always brought up when people talk about Russ for some reason. He's a stud with a couple weapons... but who did they march out at RB in the AFCCG? Dan Herron? Zurlon Tipton? Vontae Davis is the best player on their defense. For the Colts to win he literally has to throw the ball 40 times. Handing the ball off to Zurlon Tipton 25 times ain't gonna scare anyone. Colts defense allowed 27+ points 8 times last season. 40+ points 4 times. I don't care who you are... winning those games for any QB would be tough.

The system matters. Russ is perfect for what they're running in Seattle. There are games where they take the training wheels off and Russ goes OFF (I had the face for the... ********? game last season when he went for like 300 in the air and 100 on the ground). They'll follow it up with a game where Marshawn is featured and Russ isn't asked to do much. It's not bad by any means because it works. Seattle knows what they're doing. Why risk it when you know what your bread-and-butter is? As a Steelers fan I know you can understand my Ben/Russ comparison (not size, player, skill but situation). Ben came in with training wheels and now he's an elite NFL QB. It doesn't make Russ any less of a player, but it doesn't put him among the elite as his position. When the day comes that the defense ain't exactly what it used to be and Beast Mode is on the beach eating skittles -- that's when we'll see what Russ is made of. I'm confident that he'll be fine.

Respect.

That comparison is probably the reason why I feel the way I do, because I know Russ contributes more than people give him credit for. He's talented as hell man, he's not Luck-level talented but he doesn't need to be, and that's ok.

 

[jayfiend]

Respect.

That comparison is probably the reason why I feel the way I do, because I know Russ contributes more than people give him credit for. He's talented as hell man, he's not Luck-level talented but he doesn't need to be, and that's ok.

And I can respect this...

And for the record anything a QB does against the ******** defense is void IMO.

 

[a55a5in11]

[COLOR=#red]Reasoning proven as to why the other one gets ignored on this topic...
[/COLOR]

Because I said your comment about us as a fanbase was wrong
Amazing logic