QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[elpablo21]

 

 

The crazy thing about this whole Russ thing... His own team doesn't value him as much as the fans.
They have signed everyone else except Russ. And I recall reading they are in talks with Bobby Wagner to re-sign.
The market is set, he's next to sign... Luck for sure isn't signing before him. Just think it's interesting unless I missed something.

Didnt Russ already turn down a 4yr/80M contract?

Don't believe so. Haven't see one thing on that at all.
You have any links to that?

 

 

The crazy thing about this whole Russ thing... His own team doesn't value him as much as the fans.

They have signed everyone else except Russ. And I recall reading they are in talks with Bobby Wagner to re-sign.

The market is set, he's next to sign... Luck for sure isn't signing before him. Just think it's interesting unless I missed something.

Didnt Russ already turn down a 4yr/80M contract?

somewhere in the Cam Newton neighborhood is what I read, also 54mil Gtd...turned down

but the team doesnt value him?

and once again, the CBA did not allow for the team to extend or negotiate until this off-season with Russ

Refuse to talk to the other one on this subject. I like Elpablo though... with that said...
Yes I know they didn't allow Russ to re-sign until this year. Same with Tannehill and countless other QBs before him with similar rookie deals since the CBA has been redone. That doesn't negate the fact the Seahawks have re-signed everyone else except Russ First.

I also keep seeing random seahawks fans throw out these contracts Russ has supposedly turned down... in this thread alone there was three different figures.
All I ask is to see the sources you guys are getting these numbers from.

Lastly I didn't say the team didn't value him.
The team values their defense much more than him, I am currently saying that.
What I said was:

His own team doesn't value him as much as the fans.

all you have to do is look in this thread... guys (CP) can't even dislike and make valid points of Russ without three people jumping down his throat about them.

JS has handled everyone's negotiation time in the same manner. Nobody has gotten a new deal prior to 1 year left on their contract. Kam signed before Earl, then Sherm, KJ, Avril, Bennett and now Wagner...everyone was given a deal when they had a year left...and with the CBA rules, of course everyone was signed before Russ...I'm missing your point maybe, idk

Even Marshawn, when everybody was making a big deal about how the Seahawks were slighting him, same thing...JS does not negotiate extensions with more than one year left on your contract..this has came out of his own mouth during an interview...you might have some money moved around on your current deal but the rules have applied to everyone...nobody has been an exception.

As far as the numbers, I'm only going what's being reported...which could be accurate or hogwash...either way nobody truly knows how this is being handled behind closed doors.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/06/26/ru...own-a-contract-offer-in-the-cam-newton-range/

http://chawktalk.com/2015/07/23/more-indicators-that-wilsons-agent-is-being-unreasonable/

and I see this as them valuing keeping a core together (which includes players on both sides - but yes the team has alot of more premium talent accumulated on the defensive side)...Nobody has gotten an astronomical deal in comparison to their peers at any position. Russ as far as we know is being offered within a similar range

 

[Clyde Frog]

Honestly, I think there's been a lot of progress made today.

 

[dmxfury]

Honestly, I think there's been a lot of progress made today.

Waiting to see who all got reported and booted

 

[CP1708]

No real progress. Chester has accurately stated those points 25 times in this thread. Everyone agrees, everyone co-signs, and a week later someone says elite or franchise QB, doesn't mention Russ, and it starts all over.

Every. Time.

It's why I say, I'm cool with Russ, but not his fanbase. (Minus Pabs who seems to grasp it better).

There was another tho.......DSlee? Had a Sonic Avy, I think? He's pretty good.

 

[a55a5in11]

No real progress. Chester has accurately stated those points 25 times in this thread. Everyone agrees, everyone co-signs, and a week later someone says elite or franchise QB, doesn't mention Russ, and it starts all over.

Every. Time.

It's why I say, I'm cool with Russ, but not his fanbase. (Minus Pabs who seems to grasp it better).

There was another tho.......DSlee? Had a Sonic Avy, I think? He's pretty good.

What does Pablo grasp that we don't
only difference is, he doesn't debate with you fools as much

 

[Deleted member 37754]

[COLOR=#red]So we're fools now? Because we disagree and support our disagreement with facts?
Wait... Isn't being called a fool an insult... If I recall that's a reportable offense...
Guess the rules are different for some.
For the record, while you stay on your high horse there, when you constantly say stupid insults like "Wash your face" and have a laughing emoji that is an insult as well.
But you're the guy who reports people... makes sense.
You're the good guy trying to do the right thing and have a nice debate... right?
[/COLOR]

 

[elpablo21]

No real progress. Chester has accurately stated those points 25 times in this thread. Everyone agrees, everyone co-signs, and a week later someone says elite or franchise QB, doesn't mention Russ, and it starts all over.

Every. Time.

It's why I say, I'm cool with Russ, but not his fanbase. (Minus Pabs who seems to grasp it better).

There was another tho.......DSlee? Had a Sonic Avy, I think? He's pretty good.

This...feels...backhanded 

 

 

[Deleted member 37754]

JS has handled everyone's negotiation time in the same manner. Nobody has gotten a new deal prior to 1 year left on their contract. Kam signed before Earl, then Sherm, KJ, Avril, Bennett and now Wagner...everyone was given a deal when they had a year left...and with the CBA rules, of course everyone was signed before Russ...I'm missing your point maybe, idk

Even Marshawn, when everybody was making a big deal about how the Seahawks were slighting him, same thing...JS does not negotiate extensions with more than one year left on your contract..this has came out of his own mouth during an interview...you might have some money moved around on your current deal but the rules have applied to everyone...nobody has been an exception.

As far as the numbers, I'm only going what's being reported...which could be accurate or hogwash...either way nobody truly knows how this is being handled behind closed doors.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/06/26/ru...own-a-contract-offer-in-the-cam-newton-range/

http://chawktalk.com/2015/07/23/more-indicators-that-wilsons-agent-is-being-unreasonable/

and I see this as them valuing keeping a core together (which includes players on both sides - but yes the team has alot of more premium talent accumulated on the defensive side)...Nobody has gotten an astronomical deal in comparison to their peers at any position. Russ as far as we know is being offered within a similar range

[COLOR=#red]Ah, see. That's all I was wondering and needed.
Like I said in my original post, I could be missing something. That's what I missed.
The websites and "reporters" aren't credible but the order of things from JS is to me. [/COLOR]

 

[mister friendly]

We already saw thIs version of the Seahawks without Russell Wilsom

In 2011 Seattle fielded a remarkably similar offense to the one they fielded in 2014. In what ways it has been different it has been worse, or mostly. Unger and Miller played in 15 games in 2011. Sidney Rice and Anthony McCoy played in nine games. Golden Tate played in 16. Baldwin also played in 16 but was a rookie. Darrell Bevell was Seattle's offensive coordinator, and Tom Cable its offensive line coach.

Here's the efficiency of those two offenses:

2011: -8.7% and -0.03 EPA/P

2014: 16.7% and 0.13 EPA/P

The Tarvaris-led Seahawks were 23 or 22nd in offensive efficiency. The Wilson-led Seahawks are fifth and fourth.

One reason for that is Wilson excels both at running the ball and improving the rushing of his teammates. Compare:

2011 Marshawn Lynch: 8.9% DVOA and -0.03 EPA/P

2014 Marshawn Lynch: 23.3% DVOA and 0.05 EPA/P

Lynch is often and quite unfairly used as an argument against Wilson. In fact, not only is it Wilson who improves Lynch (also but also more so), Lynch was Seattle's least valuable rusher per rush.

Robert Turbin: 0.06 EPA/P

Christine Michael: 0.17 EPA/P

And this isn't some gobbledy**** statistic found through shameless data mining. Wilson's scrambling and the zone read have forced teams to assign a player specifically to stop Wilson. And Wilson and the Seahawks have punished opponents over and over for doing so. While every other new prototype quarterback took a pronounced step back in 2014, Wilson upped his game further.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Not only does Russ improve Lynch, but Lynch is the least valuable RB on the roster.

I absolutely love these articles.

 

[Hahahaha]

Russell Wilson and that team was losing games when Lynch and Kam were hurt. Russell is so good but his team doesn't want to pay him. Just admit that he's average and be happy that your team will win 10-12 games this year. I wouldn't care if my QB was average and we're winning. Sensitive *** Seattle fans in here.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Just looked up that fun little EPA/P stat that says Marshawn isn't valuable. According to EPA/P for 2014...

Roy Helu is the #1 ranked RB in the league @ 0.19
Darren Sproles is #5 while Shady is #36
Ahmad Bradshaw, Jonas Gray, and Robert Turbin > Marshawn Lynch, Jamaal Charles, Arian Foster, and Demarco Murray

*scratches EPA/P off the list of random stats to pay attention to*

 

[CP1708]

No real progress. Chester has accurately stated those points 25 times in this thread. Everyone agrees, everyone co-signs, and a week later someone says elite or franchise QB, doesn't mention Russ, and it starts all over.


Every. Time.


It's why I say, I'm cool with Russ, but not his fanbase. (Minus Pabs who seems to grasp it better).


There was another tho.......DSlee? Had a Sonic Avy, I think? He's pretty good.

This...feels...backhanded 

 

Not at all. 100% serious. I'd have a ton of reps for you if you had them enabled.

 

[mister friendly]

You used EPA in your initial argument!!

If youre going to dismiss that stat then I guess you need to stop using that chart then

 

[CP1708]

What the **** does EPA/A even mean?

at posting articles like that thinking they help your case.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Def EPA/Game is different than EPA/P.

EPA/P is expected points added per play. Pretty much the scrubs/backups on teams rule this category because they might have like 30 rushes in a season, but score 5 TDs. Jonas Gray is top 8 because of what, two games last season?

It's a silly statistic.

 

[Deleted member 37754]

View media item 1643345

Spoiler: +

View media item 1643349[COLOR=#RED]EPA! EEEEEEEEEPAAAAA![/COLOR]

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Here's an entire glossary of advanced football stats:
http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/stats/stats-explained/glossary

I understand there's a need for this stuff in baseball, but good grief. Look at some of this:

Defensive Generic Win Probability (DGWP) – The probability that a team would win a game against a notional league-average opponent at neutral site, assuming the team in question had a league-average offense.

 

[mister friendly]

You brought EPA into the argument!

Look at your chart

Its same dam stat relative to offensive, defense and special teams

http://www.advancedfootballanalytic...s-explained/expected-points-and-epa-explained

 

[Chester McFloppy]

It's not the same statistic. Def EPA/Game is team based and accounts for the entire game. EPA/P is individual based and accounts for single plays.

 

[mister friendly]

Do understand how Expected Points Added work?

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Do you understand how Expected Points Added work?

 

[mister friendly]

No I want to hear your explanation, you're the one who brought it in this discussion

Explain how Expected Points Added/game is vastly different than Expected Points Added/P?

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Scroll up.

 

[100027]

Russell Wilson and that team was losing games when Lynch and Kam were hurt. Russell is so good but his team doesn't want to pay him. Just admit that he's average and be happy that your team will win 10-12 games this year. I wouldn't care if my QB was average and we're winning. Sensitive *** Seattle fans in here.

As an Eli fan I'm surprised you don't recognize the other side of this type of argument.  Considering the claims people made during both Giants SB victories.