January '15 No-Fap Challenge vol: the entire year is too much

For reference, back in college I used to fap so hard to endless porn when I discovered that T1 connection. Hours at a time every day. I wasn't getting at real women, and I wasn't even enjoying it anymore, it was just an addiction for that quick release. I had to really step back, delete everything and quit completely and recharge to actually get to the point where I enjoy sex and the occasional fap to porn. So yet's its a self control issue, but when it goes off the rails, you have to go through the recovery methods. Fall back and stop hindering dudes progress with your misunderstanding of what's going on.
 
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You're having a completely different argument than what's happening in these threads. This isn't porn shaming, this isn't quit fapping altogether, it's to gain self control and that moderation for the abusers you speak of. For dudes that punish their meat to where they don't even desire real women anymore, slipping is a bad thing. They haven't gone through the recharge to where porn and masturabtion are fun again and not an addiction. It's like overcoming being a heroine junkie so you can enjoy weed again. THIS IS A RECHARGE! not a shaming, no morality pitch here. Slow down and read what's going on instead of reaching in your arsenal for an argument it looks like you've been waiting to let go. This isn't that thread man. Dudes need to stop coming in here with that nonsense like everyone's experience is the same. Again, clearly this is for the ones that abuse it, all this is is rehab. I'm not even in this joint, but you're doing more harm than good.
Nah, I think my argument is just being misunderstood, honestly.

Because ultimately...

I agree with everything you said before "THIS IS A RECHARGE!"

But after? Go back and read through the thread nad come back and tell me honestly that there is no shame in the thread. Do that.

There's plenty of shame felt by folks, whether it's because someone shamed them or because they just felt their own shame. And I'm here to say that THAT is not a necessary component to this recharge, and that it's actually detrimental to the individual.

And I agree that people need to stop with the approach that everyone's experience is the same, but that's why I'm saying my stance must be misunderstood, because I completely understand that everyone's experience isn't the same.

But if I'm doing more harm than good, even though my intent is to stop the shame involved...

*shrugs*

... how's that on me? I'm not talking down to anyone. I'm not calling anyone names or throwing accusations on anyone. I'm presenting a case, a case that the shame is unecessary, a case that goals are fine but a person's own personal issues aren't acknowledged then 'debilitating porn' will simply be replaced by 'debilitating _______'.
 
In regards to the fast food argument too, high fructose corn syrup and trans fats are never good for you. Never. In small amounts the effect might not be major and you'll be alright long term, but be clear, they're not doing ANYTHING GOOD for your body, EVER.

Porn is similar. It's not the same thing as sex, you get heightened dopamine levels with none of the oxytocin you usually get when you're with a girl, your **** gets out of wack, it's just not natural man.

I understand your in moderation argument, but honestly I see no point in using some **** in moderation that's really not doing anything positive for me. I'd rather smash chicks or at least save that energy and get some **** accomplished so I can make more money, have a better life and smash badder chicks :lol: .

I dunno, that's just how I look at it but to each his own.
 
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For reference, back in college I used to fap so hard to endless porn when I discovered that T1 connection. Hours at a time every day. I wasn't getting at real women, and I wasn't even enjoying it anymore, it was just an addiction for that quick release. I had to really step back, delete everything and quit completely and recharge to actually get to the point where I enjoy sex and the occasional fap to porn. So yet's its a self control issue, but when it goes off the rails, you have to go through the recovery methods.
Absolutely.
Fall back and stop hindering dudes progress with your misunderstanding of what's going on.
You couldn't have said anything more ironic.

At no point have you, or anyone (scratch that: apparently @Antidope  & @BlackCease  have), tried to understand what I'm getting at. You've spliced up what I've said and packaged it into a negative interpretation... then told me that I have a misunderstanding.

I'll let the thread get back to what it was before, though. Thought I could chime in and have a healthy discussion with some open-minded folks who knew to ask questions as a way to gain a more clear understanding.

Obviously, that's not happening. Whether that's my fault or not is irrelevant. This isn't a healthy meeting of open minds, so there's no point in continuing it.

Be easy.
 
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Man stay around, what is the harm. For what its worth I thought I did a good job of seeing what you were getting at with my response.
 
You did. Thanks, man. And I don't even feel like you and @BlackCease  necessarily agreed with me, but you weren't arguing, either.

All I'm doing with @Fontaine  & @Mark Antony  is rustling feathers, though.

Bump that.

Anyone has anything productive to say, I'll chime in.

Just arguing, though? Nah.
 
For reference, back in college I used to fap so hard to endless porn when I discovered that T1 connection. Hours at a time every day. I wasn't getting at real women, and I wasn't even enjoying it anymore, it was just an addiction for that quick release. I had to really step back, delete everything and quit completely and recharge to actually get to the point where I enjoy sex and the occasional fap to porn. So yet's its a self control issue, but when it goes off the rails, you have to go through the recovery methods.
Absolutely.
Fall back and stop hindering dudes progress with your misunderstanding of what's going on.
You couldn't have said anything more ironic.

At no point have you, or anyone (scratch that: apparently @Antidope
 & @BlackCease
 have), tried to understand what I'm getting at. You've spliced up what I've said and packaged it into a negative interpretation... then told me that I have a misunderstanding.

I'll let the thread get back to what it was before, though. Thought I could chime in and have a healthy discussion with some open-minded folks who knew to ask questions as a way to gain a more clear understanding.

Obviously, that's not happening. Whether that's my fault or not is irrelevant. This isn't a healthy meeting of open minds, so there's no point in continuing it.

Be easy.

How does looking at an addiction with an open, positive mind help you overcome it if you're an abuser?

You need to come to grips that you really have no point, have no interest in looking at it from an addicts pov and real world ways to overcome it. Save the faux open-mindedness and hidden insults.
 
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How does looking at an addiction with an open, positive mind help you overcome it if you're an abuser?

You need to come to grips that you really have no point, have no interest in looking at it from an addicts pov and real world ways to overcome it. Save the faux open-mindedness and hidden insults.
It's possible that I have no point.

It's also possible that I have a point, and that you just don't understand it. People saying that there's some valuable info on both sides, people saying they appreciate what I've said and I should stick around, that leads me to believe the latter.

I've never said, implicitly or explicitly, that looking at an addiction with an open, positive mind will help you overcome it if you're an abuser.

Would definitely help if there was less "In order for this conversation to be more productive, YOU NEED TO..." and more "In order for this conversation to be more productive, I NEED TO..."

- Ask more questions; seek clarity.

- Not take disagreements personally.

- Stick with my point, not make it about who I'm talking to.

Stuff like that.
 
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[thread="615806"]How does looking at an addiction with an open, positive mind help you overcome it if you're an abuser?


You need to come to grips that you really have no point, have no interest in looking at it from an addicts pov and real world ways to overcome it. Save the faux open-mindedness and hidden insults.[/thread]

-questions are being asked, and answered
-no one's taking it personally (you're better than the "u mad" approach, c'mon now). It's a conversation, stay on topic and stop all the childish masked deflection.
-again, this thread being what it is, what is your point here? lay it out and let's go from there
-i'm not misinterpreting anything, i'm responding to what you say. A person with a sense of self control, open mind and mastery has no need for this, this isn't your core audience here.
-Until you clarify, what you're saying amounts to "bro science" in the bodybuilding world. Advanced techniques for experts, misinterpreted by novices. You don't just wake up to a point of enlightenment, you work up to it.
 
I'm not going to say what you're doing amounts to, because that's not the point. (
wink.gif
)

My opinion of what you're doing, what you're hiding, what you're getting at, how productive you're being, or anything else about you is not what the thread is intended for. I won't say that you're better than certain types of responses, because I'm sure we'll both agree that there's no reason for that.

So let's both move forward with that in mind. Shall we?

After all, what's the point of saying "You're better than that?" What... in the name if this topic... what does that accomplish? Nothing.

As far as my point, I've said it multiple times. Instead of quoting where I've already said it, I'll just restate it.

But I'm not your opponent, man. I'm not much for telling people "Stop this" and "You need to blah, blah, blah", but stop coming at me like we're at war. If you don't understand, ask questions. And saying "Questions were asked. Stay on topic. Stop being passive aggressive. You're like bro science in weightlifting" isn't the same as asking a genuine question of curiosity and a desire to understand.

Approach differently if you really want to discuss my point; approach the same if you want to think we're in a battle of words.

_______________________________________________________________________

Yes, there are people whose lives have been crippled by porn. No denying that.

And there are also people who live fully functional lives and enjoy porn; some of them are single, some of them are in completely healthy relationships.

That last part shows that porn ITSELF... all by itself... is not THE problem. It can be A problem, but it is not THE problem.

So with that understanding, getting people to stop feeling ashamed of a habit that has debilitated their lives is a crucial element to their own progress. Telling people, "I know what your problem is: PORN!" when the real issue is their own addictive personality will only serve to remove porn, and have them latch on to something else.

And then on TOP of that (as in ANOTHER issue that is created): whenever shame is added to the discussion, then that person replaces overwhelming porn habits with overwhelming ________  habits (fill in the blanks with ANYTHING), and now moves forward in life feeling bad every time he gets wood over a sexy beer commercial, and shakes his head whenever a friend jokes about watching porn.

What is created is someone who has learned to blame THINGS instead of realizing their own contribution to their issues of control, as well as creating someone who has learned to shame others who 'suffered' from the same thing he 'suffered' from.

That's my point, and it has been stated many times.

A few have grasped it. Hope you do, too. Even if you don't agree with it, that's my point.
 
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So ANYWAY who fapped today...?

I'm over here at 23 days and counting  feelin...

but hoping when i  smash this new chick i dont

saw a vid on my comp today

It's not a part of my system!
 
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First, I am a regular outpatient that goes to therapy for addiction.  Though I don't apply the steps because I am going for other reasons, the first step in the 12 step program: 


  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.

This doesn't necessarily have to be alcohol, where as it can be narcotics but in this case porn.  If you're an addict, then you're an addict of all things and can not do anything in moderation.  Even if you never picked up a drink before, you are still considered an alcoholic.  There's a lot of debate when one says if you're an addict or if you're an alcoholic.  Addiction is a deadly disease, it isn't the alcohol or the drugs, its the person who isn't able to do it in self moderation.  There are so many people who are able to smoke, drink, and do drugs in moderation.  If you're an addict, you can not do it in moderation and are consumed by it.  In this case its porn.  There many people who can watch porn and masturbate in moderation, and then there are people like us who can not.  I for one realized when I did give up drugs there was something that was put in its place, porn.  Though I don't think my problem as an addict is severe, I see the potential problems.  I am doing this no challenge as a form of self control, especially because I'll be finishing my outpatient therapy soon.  

I agree with Darth, that even if this is a no fap challenge, some people replace it with things such as going to the gym.  Even though its a positive thing, if you are truly an addict, then you probably won't be going to the gym in moderation.  Replacing porn with something else is still a form of an addiction if you really have a problem.  I can argue that what happens if I replace porn with just reading, how can that be so bad.  As the first step says, if your life becomes unmanageable due to whatever that addiction is than you have a problem.  The problem with addiction is that one can not do it in moderation.  

This is why the result of overcoming addiction is so small, because many will relapse.  I knew this one guy who was clean for 17 years, and once he picked up his first drink it was all over from then.  The disease of addiction is in you, and its like cancer there isn't a proper cure for it.  Just a healthy way of maintaining it.

Just my two cents.
 
That Amber Rose thread is killing me. Them big succulent tiddays that bald head ****. If Didn't have a program to run at work right now or I would tap out.
 
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I'm not going to say what you're doing amounts to, because that's not the point. (:wink: )


Yes, there are people whose lives have been crippled by porn. No denying that.

And there are also people who live fully functional lives and enjoy porn; some of them are single, some of them are in completely healthy relationships.

That last part shows that porn ITSELF... all by itself... is not THE problem. It can be A problem, but it is not THE problem.

So with that understanding, getting people to stop feeling ashamed of a habit that has debilitated their lives is a crucial element to their own progress. Telling people, "I know what your problem is: PORN!" when the real issue is their own addictive personality will only serve to remove porn, and have them latch on to something else.

And then on TOP of that (as in ANOTHER issue that is created): whenever shame is added to the discussion, then that person replaces overwhelming porn habits with overwhelming ________  habits (fill in the blanks with ANYTHING), and now moves forward in life feeling bad every time he gets wood over a sexy beer commercial, and shakes his head whenever a friend jokes about watching porn.

What is created is someone who has learned to blame THINGS instead of realizing their own contribution to their issues of control, as well as creating someone who has learned to shame others who 'suffered' from the same thing he 'suffered' from.

That's my point, and it has been stated many times.

A few have grasped it. Hope you do, too. Even if you don't agree with it, that's my point.

Battle? stop that. Stop reading it like there's anger, I don't understand why people interpret it that way when there's an opposing viewpoint. This is NT, i'm sitting at my desk at work, feet kicked up, chiming in, there's nothing at stake here. I despise when people do that slick ****. Cutting passive aggressive stuff packaged as something else out, and explaining your point like I asked (which is a genuine question, but somehow read as a "battle") I actually have no qualms with that, dealing with the addictive personality itself. But what exactly is the problem tackling "a issue" as opposed to "the issue" on our small corner of the internet? How does one quitting porn to learn moderation become an issue? sure they may be addictive personalities (some listed here), but that's not everyone. This is no fap for whatever reason, it's not a shaming.
 
You did. Thanks, man. And I don't even feel like you and @BlackCease
 necessarily agreed with me, but you weren't arguing, either.

All I'm doing with @Fontaine
 & @Mark Antony
 is rustling feathers, though.

Bump that.

Anyone has anything productive to say, I'll chime in.

Just arguing, though? Nah.

Who's arguing, famb?

I can't stand that, dudes always going to that "arguing" or "you mad" defense. It's just words, don't make it bigger than it is. Like i'm sitting here fuming over the next man's porn habits.
 
That Amber Rose thread is killing me. Them big succulent tiddays that bald head ****. If Didn't have a program to run at work right now or I would tap out.

Stay strong man. Came across Mia Khalifa's instagram on my popular page and was so greatful that I had to go to class. :lol:
 
 
 
You did. Thanks, man. And I don't even feel like you and @BlackCease
 necessarily agreed with me, but you weren't arguing, either.

All I'm doing with @Fontaine
 & @Mark Antony
 is rustling feathers, though.

Bump that.

Anyone has anything productive to say, I'll chime in.

Just arguing, though? Nah.
Who's arguing, famb?
I can't stand that, dudes always going to that "arguing" or "you mad" defense. It's just words, don't make it bigger than it is. Like i'm sitting here fuming over the next man's porn habits.
You do things that people can't stand, too.

And what bothers you about how people post is as important as how you post that bothers others.

Not important.

BACK

TO

THE

TOPIC

This is going to get real ugly, real quick if that doesn't happen.

That's not a threat, but that's how you're taking it, I'm sure. With your feet propped up, chilling.

This isn't about you being right about me. This is about you failing to realize you're in the wrong for CONTINUING to post about me; about me being passive aggressive, about me saying you're arguing, about me not getting it, about me WHATEVER. You're in the wrong for sticking with that agenda.

Posts are going to start getting deleted that are not on topic (like posts defending yourself, or posts about what you think of me, or anyone), then feelings are going to start getting hurt (yours, while your feet are propped up), then yadda, yadda, yadda.

Best thing to do is apparently the hardest at this point for you: nothing else about your opinion of me, or your opinion of why I'm posting. Just the topic.

I've stated numerous times what my point is. You're free to comment on that, respectfully. You are NOT free to discuss...

... me.

P.S. That includes what you're about to do. "Ooooh, big bad mod. I see you, bro. You can be all disrespectful and it's cool, but the second it comes back at you, you pull the mod card." That. Don't do that. It's a thread about 'no fap', and I've interjected my opinion that sometimes, the targeted issue isn't the actual issue; sometimes it's the person.
 
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First, I am a regular outpatient that goes to therapy for addiction.  Though I don't apply the steps because I am going for other reasons, the first step in the 12 step program: 


  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.

This doesn't necessarily have to be alcohol, where as it can be narcotics but in this case porn.  If you're an addict, then you're an addict of all things and can not do anything in moderation.  Even if you never picked up a drink before, you are still considered an alcoholic.  There's a lot of debate when one says if you're an addict or if you're an alcoholic.  Addiction is a deadly disease, it isn't the alcohol or the drugs, its the person who isn't able to do it in self moderation.  There are so many people who are able to smoke, drink, and do drugs in moderation.  If you're an addict, you can not do it in moderation and are consumed by it.  In this case its porn.  There many people who can watch porn and masturbate in moderation, and then there are people like us who can not.  I for one realized when I did give up drugs there was something that was put in its place, porn.  Though I don't think my problem as an addict is severe, I see the potential problems.  I am doing this no challenge as a form of self control, especially because I'll be finishing my outpatient therapy soon.  

I agree with Darth, that even if this is a no fap challenge, some people replace it with things such as going to the gym.  Even though its a positive thing, if you are truly an addict, then you probably won't be going to the gym in moderation.  Replacing porn with something else is still a form of an addiction if you really have a problem.  I can argue that what happens if I replace porn with just reading, how can that be so bad.  As the first step says, if your life becomes unmanageable due to whatever that addiction is than you have a problem.  The problem with addiction is that one can not do it in moderation.  

This is why the result of overcoming addiction is so small, because many will relapse.  I knew this one guy who was clean for 17 years, and once he picked up his first drink it was all over from then.  The disease of addiction is in you, and its like cancer there isn't a proper cure for it.  Just a healthy way of maintaining it.

Just my two cents.
Props on your recovery my dude.

I sincerely hope that nothing I've said has stepped on your toes, offended you, or anything like that.

I definitely agree that there are those who are watching porn with an addictive personality, and moderation isn't really a healthy choice for them, just the same as an alcoholic can't reasonably go to the bar with friends and drink moderately.

Just frustrates me when I hear people come anywhere close to the opinion that everyone who watches porn is addicted, or that everyone who is quitting is doing so because they were addicted, or that everyone who challenges norms or popular thinking is a threat who doesn't 'get it'.

The reality is that some people watch pen in moderation, and some people have a problem. Keeping the lines blurred between who watches in moderation, life unaffected, abd who has a problem... I think keeping that line blurred is unfair and problematic. Clearly distinguish who has an issue, and who is not in the conversation of problematic.
 
Warnings are next.

"P.S. That includes what you're about to do. "Ooooh, big bad mod. I see you, bro. You can be all disrespectful and it's cool, but the second it comes back at you, you pull the mod card." That. Don't do that. It's a thread about 'no fap', and I've interjected my opinion that sometimes, the targeted issue isn't the actual issue; sometimes it's the person."
 
^ Nothing. 
happy.gif


It's a thread about 'no fap January', and a discussion on watching porn in moderation vs. having your life taken over by porn; a discussion on vices and addictions and mindsets.

And that's what it'll continue to be.
 
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