JDs / Lawyers (current or aspiring) of NT

Had a buddy who went to SMU law, and played at a very good firm here in Dallas.

If you're not a rock star, it seems like it would suck because you're saddle with so much debt and not a lot of options.

I know a chick that went to Harvard undergrad, UT law... Practices here in the D...

I asked her about a JD/MBA

Her words

"If I had to do it over, I'd just would've gotten my MBA... The JD is pointless if you dont plan on practicing law, and financially, I would've made more lids an extra years worth of salary if I would've just did my MBA and went into banking, consulting, or alt investment. Don't get into law."

:\

I'm still very interested in it though...

The corporate restructuring and debt classes are super intriguing to me
 
NTlegal here, I practice corporate law and I like my job. I think the key is to go into it with reasonable expectations. Billing hours isn't awesome,some firms are sweatshops, lawyers work incredibly long hours and are basically on call 24/7 with smart phones. I view being a lawyer just as I did any other job, there are good things and bad things. My first couple of years as an associate were hard but you eventually get through them.
 
I have a JD but I do not practice. I would second most other lawyers who tell people that ask about law school to consider another option. I say that because due to the increased amount of lawyers into the workforce after the 2008 financial collapse, it is a lot more difficult to get gainful employment, especially at a top firm. Most people that say that want to go to law school do it because they think that lawyers make a lot of money. If your goal is to practice law just for the bread, I would say you should strongly consider another profession. Unless you work for big law or a boutique shop with a great client base, you will not be starting off at $160,000 as a first year associate. If you are "lucky" enough to get such a job, you better LOVE practicing law because the firm will consume your life. You will have crazy bread but will have no time to spend it. I realized about halfway through 2L that I didn't really want to practice; but I didn't drop out because I felt I had already completed the most difficult part and was already in enough debt that I felt I at least needed the option to be able to practice later on in life. I don't regret law school though because it really does change the way you think and post-graduation I have really been able to see how that benefits me in the world. But honestly you can learn all that stuff on your own, as the majority of it I learned from 1L year. If you really want to practice law, most likely as a litigator, then I would say yeah go for it. But unless you have a real passion to practice law, save yourself the time, stress, and six figures of debt.
 
I was accepted into a top tier law school and ended up deciding against it. After working the numbers I didn't see enough upside on putting my career on hold for 3 years to stay in school. I'm now 9 years out of college and I'm glad I didn't go. I was lucky out of college though landing a great job that paid me well for being fresh out of college...it made not going for my jd pretty easy. 3 promotions over that time and I'm more then likely making more then I would be 6 years out of law school. The LSAT was the single hardest thing I have ever had the joy of doing. I did well on it with a 168, but I didn't have the desire that I knew would be required to put me at the top of my class. Got my MBA a couple years ago going part time and let my employer foot the bill.

All I can say is look at all your options and don't chase the conventional route to the almighty dollar. Most lawyers don't make huge money. I'm in the Midwest, and I'd venture to guess that I make double what most successful attorneys make around here.(louisville, Ky)
 
INshoeKid said:
I was accepted into a top tier law school and ended up deciding against it. After working the numbers I didn't see enough upside on putting my career on hold for 3 years to stay in school. I'm now 9 years out of college and I'm glad I didn't go. I was lucky out of college though landing a great job that paid me well for being fresh out of college...it made not going for my jd pretty easy. 3 promotions over that time and I'm more then likely making more then I would be 6 years out of law school. The LSAT was the single hardest thing I have ever had the joy of doing. I did well on it with a 168, but I didn't have the desire that I knew would be required to put me at the top of my class. Got my MBA a couple years ago going part time and let my employer foot the bill.

All I can say is look at all your options and don't chase the conventional route to the almighty dollar. Most lawyers don't make huge money. I'm in the Midwest, and I'd venture to guess that I make double what most successful attorneys make around here.(louisville, Ky)
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thanks for the post, bit the vagueness of your occupation is hard to overlook famb.

:lol:

What do you do?

There's a ton of young NTers here that are looking for an alternate route that pays well.
 
I'm a regional logistics manager for Wal-Mart. Manage stores in southern indiana and Louisville.

Edit for more information:
I started in 2006 in a distribution center managing inbound freight for 100 stores. Then moved up to managing 12ish salary managers and about 300 associates. From there went corporate and I'm now 2 positions below the regional Vice President position with my eyes set on being in his spot within the next 5 years.
 
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NT(almost)Legal checking in. Last semester baby. The grind is real, but the degree brings many blessings, not only financial.

The job market is garbage but it's looking up. If you are motivated you'll find employment. Attorneys are extremely self-important. So of course they are all going to tell you how hard it is and to do something else. It makes "us" feel like we are better than you and you can't do it. We also don't want to encourage more competition for jobs in an already extremely over-saturated job market.

I'll be around for any questions.
 
Family law attorney checking in. Been practicing for almost 10 years. As the other attorneys and JDs in this thread have already mentioned, it would be advisable to explore other career options.

I've spoken with a number of law grads who finished school and passed the bar within the past few years, and their stories are all the same: Saturated job market, no gainful employment, etc. All these stories you hear about first year associates making $100k+ per year are the exception, and definitely not the norm.

If you're going into law school strictly for the money, you've already lost. If you still think you want to go to law school, I will give you some advice that I wish I received before I started law school almost 15 years ago:

1. Contact an attorney in your field of interest (crim, fam, estate planning, corp) and ask if you could sit down for 30 min to discuss their experience/practice. If they are willing, ask if you can shadow them for a day or two.

2. Some areas of law see the inside of a courtroom more than others. If you can't get an attorney to job shadow, go to your nearest county courthouse to observe court hearings. Any hearings, not necessarily trials. They're all open to the public. Usually in superior court, you can basically observe hearings ranging from DV petitions and divorce motions to your regular criminal arraignments. Observe how counsel carry themselves in the courtroom and see if you can see yourself doing that in a couple of years.

3. Research the legal job market in your area. Is there a need for it? If not, are you willing to move to a place where there is a need?

4. Make sure you have financial resources in case you can't find a job right out of school. Of course, this goes without saying, but you'd be surprised how many people go to law school and thought they could get a job quick. Don't be that law school grad working at Starbucks.

5. If you can't get a job right away, consider hanging a shingle, but be ready to be living on Top Ramen.

Like any other job occupation, it's really about who you know more than what you know.
 
I have a few questions to ask about some legal things I would like to handle, I'm talking royalties
nerd.gif


If someone is willing to hear me out

dead srs btw
 
3L @ Vanderbilt checking in, looking to do transactional law but still searching for a full-time job after graduation
embarassed.gif
 .  Any leads/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!  Anyone with (non-legal) questions, I'm happy to help.
 
Fellow 3rd year part-time law student checking in. If all goes well, done this December, and taking the CA Bar Feb. 2016.

My advice, only go if you want to be an attorney, (not b/c of a tv show, movie, paycheck, or status).

Second, focus on getting a solid LSAT score of (168+), anything less your choices of schools really drop, in terms of T1-T2 schools.

I  took the LSAT twice, first score was 160, second try hit 165.  Fortunately I had a solid GPA from a good undergrad so my school choices opened up.

I ended up choosing a lower ranked school simply because of the scholarship offer I received and to avoid major debt,  (high LSAT's usually cause many schools to throw good scholarship offers out.)

Ill gladly answer questions to the best of my abilities.
 
I applied for Law School and Econ/History PhD's at the same time. I got into UCLA as a grad student but not as a law student. I could have studied law at UC Hastings (which is a great, great school. I do not want to dissuade anyone from studying there) but that dang blue and yellow, Bruin mystique was too seductive (I did not get into UCLA as an undergrad so I was thirst as hell).

It was nice being an Economist and a Medievalist but my fiancee had to come back from Yale Law. I feel so unmanned. I feel like Kevin MacArthur from The League. I want to be like Maurice Levy and be a player in the game.

We were watching highlights of Loretta Lynch's AG hearings. My soon-to-be wife said that genius skips a generation (not that I am any sort of genius) and we will make a son who we will drag through Yale Law. Our son will stride into a Senate AG hearing, he will be 6'5, have a booming voice, a neatly trimmed beard and he will snort and laugh and wave off any idiot Tea Party Senators. Our progeny, despite the physically lower position of a Cabinet hopeful, will look up and tell the conservative Senator that he intends to overlook all drug laws and that he might just bang said Senator's wife for good measure. Social Justice is not all silent protests and martyrdom.

Law is a great profession but if you must take on debt to study it, make sure that it is a great Law School. It is an insane system that all non rich law students must take on a mortgage to study Law but since that is the case, make sure that you can get a remunerative position at a good law firm in your city.
 
I graduated with honors from a T14 school at the height of the recession and failed to receive an offer at my summer firm. As such, I was unemployed with six figures of debt. Eventually I found a job that paid me 40K which I flipped to a job that paid me 60K, which I flipped to a contract attorney job at a big firm, which finally helped me land an Associate gig at my current firm. This is the type of struggle that you will most likely endure. I was unemployed looking at six figures in debt with no real income in sight. Presently, I'm doing great financially but just understand that the plush big firm job isnt a right of passage, and its actually fairly abnormal. More than likely you will not have my job. I say this not to be arrogant but to emphasize the likelihood of receiving the awe-inspiring 200K job immediately after law school. Also, 200K doesnt come free. Unless you have equally professional driven friends, most people have a hard time adapting to the lifestyle. Nonetheless, I actually love my job. I'm always challenged intellectually, and am blessed to work a position that compensates me well. Ironically, initially I told myself that once I paid off my student loans that I would leave the big firm environment but somehow along the way I got accustomed to the lifestyle.

My advice. Approach the LSAT like a job, and an opportunity at free money. If you dont get into a top 15 school then don't go unless you're independently wealthy. The job prospects are abysmal, and I cannot under-emphasize the mental anguish associated with being six figures in debt without a car or house to your name, and an income that fails to adequately compensate you in a manner to pay it off expeditiously.
 
TraPpStar said:
I graduated with honors from a T14 school at the height of the recession and failed to receive an offer at my summer firm. As such, I was unemployed with six figures of debt. Eventually I found a job that paid me 40K which I flipped to a job that paid me 60K, which I flipped to a contract attorney job at a big firm, which finally helped me land an Associate gig at my current firm. This is the type of struggle that you will most likely endure. I was unemployed looking at six figures in debt with no real income in sight. Presently, I'm doing great financially but just understand that the plush big firm job isnt a right of passage, and its actually fairly abnormal. More than likely you will not have my job. I say this not to be arrogant but to emphasize the likelihood of receiving the awe-inspiring 200K job immediately after law school. Also, 200K doesnt come free. Unless you have equally professional driven friends, most people have a hard time adapting to the lifestyle. Nonetheless, I actually love my job. I'm always challenged intellectually, and am blessed to work a position that compensates me well. Ironically, initially I told myself that once I paid off my student loans that I would leave the big firm environment but somehow along the way I got accustomed to the lifestyle.

My advice. Approach the LSAT like a job, and an opportunity at free money. If you dont get into a top 15 school then don't go unless you're independently wealthy. The job prospects are abysmal, and I cannot under-emphasize the mental anguish associated with being six figures in debt without a car or house to your name, and an income that fails to adequately compensate you in a manner to pay it off expeditiously.
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This is one of the most honest answers in this thread. Again, like I mentioned above, I do not think that most of us who have gone through law school are trying to dissuade others from going because "we're arrogant and we want clients all to ourselves." That is the most ridiculous idea I've heard mentioned. Rather, the advice to seek other career options is to avoid the real possibility of facing six figure debt with no gainful employment for a protracted period of time. Nothing is more draining than knowing that you have a negative net worth, with a $150k+ loan to pay off working at Stabucks, and realizing that once you do start practicing, you actually hate it.

I would agree with Trappstar. Don't go to law school unless you are independently wealthy (ie parents pay for school).
 
I think everyone offering advice is giving great advice. I received the same kind of advice before I went to law school which helped me have realistic expectations of the financial burden and job prospects.


1. If you choose to go to law school, keep your law school expenses as low as possible. This might mean taking out the fewest student loans possible, living on Top Ramen and going without things you are accustomed to, such as cable, going out with friends, etc. I was blessed to be able to move back home with my parents which allowed me to save money.

2. Start networking with your fellow students, professors, judges, etc as soon as possible. These contacts will be invaluable when navigating the post law school job market.

3. If you are able to get a summer associate position, save every penny you receive. Too many people like to floss as summer associates only to realize that they don't have money when life happens,ie deferred associate start dates or rescinded job offers.

4. Law firm life isn't for everyone and that's ok. Don't get caught up chasing the 160k first year associate jobs unless you really want the responsibility that goes with the compensation package. Find a firm or place that you could see yourself being somewhat happy working at despite the pay. There are excellent small to midsize firms that might not compensate you as well as a AM Law top 100 firm but you can still make a good living.
 
Eyedea said:
just wait il youre studying for the bar.... youll get through man, just stick to a study schedule and youll be fine

anyone thinking about law school i would say this: dont consider going if you cant get into a tier 1 school, otherwise youre just blowing 100k
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I know your in law school, or whatever, but I dont know if this is accurate. I know a lot of lawyers, both professionally and personally, and none went to a Georgetown or a Harvard. Damn near all of them are millionaires.


Eventually I found a job that paid me 40K which I flipped to a job that paid me 60K, which I flipped to a contract attorney job at a big firm, which finally helped me land an Associate gig at my current firm. This is the type of struggle that you will most likely endure. I was unemployed looking at six figures in debt with no real income in sight.
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That goes with any profession. Nobody starts at the top, unless you are a select few that have that pipeline. I have a cousin that graduated with honors from Columbia and couldnt find a job. Whether her being a woman played into it or not, I'm not sure, but it doesnt matter what law school you go to. If you got talent, it will show.
 
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I don't think they are talking about the money from a materialistic stand point, I think they are emphasizing the money because of the return on investment.



You would think the more education = more money, but that not how it works.
 
that's true, but regardless of study if you are looking at it as a return on investment you WILL hate your job. You can't go into it like that, doctors same thing. You have to have a passion for it.
 
BlackIntellect said:
that's true, but regardless of study if you are looking at it as a return on investment you WILL hate your job. You can't go into it like that, doctors same thing. You have to have a passion for it.
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The advice given here is kinda generic though.

"if you dont like ____, dont do it for the money because you will hate it"

That's pretty much goes to be said in every career...

Not everyone can have their dream job where they walk into work smiling everyday...

I feel like if it's more on the type of person... A big time lawyer would've been just fine if he went the banker route because he may just be that motivated.
 
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