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OFFICIAL 2016 @HEAT PLAYOFF THREAD - Page 54

post #1591 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Cashfl0w View Post

Wade is going to hold this team hostage next season. If he wants to break the bank again he has got to go. Or prepare yourself for a few more years of Heat mediocrity.

 

can we get a mod to clean this up? its offensive.

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post #1592 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKtheMAESTRO View Post
 

 

you are a habitual line-stepper. HABITUAL

 

 

we have no shooters. none that are consistent enough to be considered a threat. so the lane is always packed. and we mostly either fight through the packed lane  or settle for a midrange when the clock expires.


Oh, I know we have no shooters. I'm just saying what we need, but it isn't on the roster. Just saying what we need.

post #1593 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meast View Post
 


Oh, I know we have no shooters. I'm just saying what we need, but it isn't on the roster. Just saying what we need.

we have the potential. if dudes put in work in the gym. we need to turn our streaky shooters, into consistent shooters. thats all. a couple weeks of focused training would do the trick but.... for some reason it never happens

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post #1594 of 2814
What exactly are you basing this "it never happens" on? Are you in the gym with these guys? Shooting by yourself during practice isn't the same as shooting during a game but that's another discussion for another time.
post #1595 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKtheMAESTRO View Post
 

we have the potential. if dudes put in work in the gym. we need to turn our streaky shooters, into consistent shooters. thats all. a couple weeks of focused training would do the trick but.... for some reason it never happens


You gotta understand, some guys will never be consistent. If they were, they wouldn't be traveling the NBA. Streaky guys will just be streaky guys. You're expecting guys to be more than what they are. No amount of training will change that. Green is on his 9th NBA team with a D League stint/Russia stint/China stint.

 

Lack of consistency is a major reason why and suddenly a couple weeks of focused trained will do the trick?


Edited by Meast - 1/20/16 at 8:36am
post #1596 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Cashfl0w View Post

What exactly are you basing this "it never happens" on? Are you in the gym with these guys? Shooting by yourself during practice isn't the same as shooting during a game but that's another discussion for another time.

 

how many shots was ray allen putting up per day to become a better shooter? steph? reggie? ibaka? nobody wakes up and has the god-tier 3pter. But for DAMN sure nobody practices the 3pters for years and shows no improvement. ive vicariously watched one of their practices before becuz a friend was recording it for the team. that plus common sense of the way nobody's shooting ever improves while playing for this team. we dont emphasize it. shooting by yourself in practice will help your shot feel automatic.

 

you wont see the hesitation from wade in pulling a 3 when hes WIDE open but everyone knows hes not gonna shoot it. then the guys who DO take the 3 when they see the opp wont be all over the place with it. like bosh shooting from the side banging off the side of the backboard or barely nipping the rim. green looks like hes wildly chucking sometimes. hes streaky. and ur telling me, if he put in the necessary hours in the gym, he would continue to be streaky?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meast View Post
 


You gotta understand, some guys will never be consistent. If they were, they wouldn't be traveling the NBA. Streaky guys will just be streaky guys. You're expecting guys to be more than what they are. No amount of training will change that. Green is on his 9th NBA team with a D League stint/Russia stint/China stint.

 

Lack of consistency is a major reason why and suddenly a couple weeks of focused trained will do the trick?

yes. it doesnt take that long to develop a 3. if u already have the fundamentals, ur just fine tuning it. and u could definitely take 3 weeks or a month of FOCUSED (aka shooting drills. all the damn time. every day ur training some aspect of it) yes its true SOME guys just dont got it. that cant be the case for an entire team. not to mention, we clearly dont train on it. even if the team isn't running shooting training or practice, these guys should want it more for THEMSELVES to not be such a liability from behind the line. but THAT is another story. green has been traveling the nba for plenty of reasons. and most of them lead back to his mentality which also lends to why hes so streaky.

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post #1597 of 2814
Yup lets pick some outliers to prove our point. laugh.gif

All you do is continually complain about everything. If you truly feel like you'd be a more competent coach and trainer, just submit your resume and give it a go.
post #1598 of 2814
OK, this is a HS basketball team that just needs simple training.
 
I mean, you mention ELITE shooters aside from Ibaka, but what do they all lack? Defense. But they could spend 3 weeks of focused and intense training to fine tune and become a top defender. Technically everybody has the fundamentals of defense down. Simple as that and be an All-NBA defender. It's hard to imagine why James Jones didn't simply do that. Problem would have been solved with his horrible defense.
post #1599 of 2814

its one reason i get on the coaching staff SO much. i know that spo and fitz see these weaknesses. i know riley sees it but its not his job anymore. how in all these years, have we not put some emphasis on hitting our weaknesses? shooting has been a GLARING weakness for years, covered up by the big 3's star power, and ray allen and mike miller.  weve lost ray mike and lebron. theres no one left to hide how bad our shooting really is. how have we not fixed it yet?

 

everyone acknowledges dragic wants to run a fast game, why cant we? we used to be known for it. i know we have some vets on the team who couldnt sustain that speed, but dragic, wade, green, tj, bosh, winslow, richardson, and udrih DEFINITELY can sustain that speed. you telling me we can't find a small ball rotation to run that speed at least at SOME point in the games? we dont need our power forwards and centers running a 4.5 to have everyone else taking off... but we dont even TRY it.

 

sooooooooo frustrating. we have the personnel. they all just need to be sharpened up a bit. at this point in the season im still most impressed with TJ, and wade. everyone else imo is disappointing.

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post #1600 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meast View Post
 
OK, this is a HS basketball team that just needs simple training.
 
I mean, you mention ELITE shooters aside from Ibaka, but what do they all lack? Defense. But they could spend 3 weeks of focused and intense training to fine tuneand become a top defender. Technically everybody has the fundamentals of defense down. Simple as that and be an All-NBA defender. It's hard to imagine why James Jones didn't simply do that. Problem would have been solved with his horrible defense.

terrible analogy. everyone knows defense is a mentality. "you can't teach hustle" as pat riley said. u can definitely learn how to be a better shooter. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Cashfl0w View Post

Yup lets pick some outliers to prove our point. laugh.gif

All you do is continually complain about everything. If you truly feel like you'd be a more competent coach and trainer, just submit your resume and give it a go.

 

all great shooters are outliers? O_o they PUT IN THE WORK. the craziest thing is, ive been saying the same things in here for literally years. now yall on board with what ive BEEN saying. bernie would be a more competent coach imo but theres nothing we could do about that. if i could coach the heat, i would. but thats not realistic. why mention it? 

 

edit: there are plenty of other examples. hell look at lebron himself. dude worked on it over a summer or 2 and voila. no longer a liability from 3. ibaka is a NONshooter who said hes tired of being a non shooter. and voila. just put in the work. instead of vacation after vacation, get in the gym. instead of running practice where all u do is go over plays and condition, hold an intense shootaround after practice. for the players, if theres no practice today, get in the gym. if theres a game today, show up in the morning and knock down shots, show up early and get lined up. u cant use the excuse of some people just dont got it, for an entire team


Edited by TEKtheMAESTRO - 1/20/16 at 9:16am

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post #1601 of 2814

Except Serge Ibaka's shooting % and 3 point % has gone down this year while his minutes went up.

 

That must mean he isn't training and fine tuning his shooting. 

 

 

You make it sound like everybody will just be a better shooter by training. Doesn't happen. Some guys are better at other aspects of their game. Training won't solve everything. You can train all you want but it just won't happen. So you can spend all your time training and neglect what you're better at and then suddenly you're an average player in all aspects. Some players find a niche and stick with it. e.g.. shooters, defenders etc. You want some miracle to happen. You gotta understand not every player is Kobe/LeBron/Steph (Superstars) and spending hours at the gym. Some guys ended up being tall, athletic and good at basketball to make a living and are good enough to hang around the NBA.


Edited by Meast - 1/20/16 at 9:36am
post #1602 of 2814

Simple solution, and note, I said simple, is Miami has to figure out a way to win with what they have. No one is taking Andersen and his contract, UD isn't going anywhere, STAT isn't going anywhere, even though he can stand a just a few more minutes with McBob out, and there is no way Winslow gets traded, Green is hot or cold, not a lot of in between. I can see Miami riding the Bosh train until the wheels fall off at this pace and hope that he doesn't go down with an injury. 

post #1603 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meast View Post
 

Except Serge Ibaka's shooting % and 3 point % has gone down this year while his minutes went up.

 

That must mean he isn't training and fine tuning his shooting. 

 

he probably isnt training on it like he did when he developed it. im pretty sure its common sense. but the FACT remains he developed a 3 pointer in 1 summer. and dont leave out that ibaka is shooting 40% from the 3 this year. which is literally better than our ENTIRE team. so if ibakas numbers went down, to a number higher than every single player on our team who shot more than 10 3pters, id take ibakas skills and place them on all of our players if i could. understand?

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post #1604 of 2814

You keep mentioning guys that are stars in this league and using middle of the road players against them.

 

Why haven't middle of the road players on other teams improved aspects of their game as well, if it were so simple?

 

 

Anyway, we will always be on opposite sides of this and won't budge on our beliefs. I respect your view point and we both want the same thing, which is the Heat to be better.

 

Good debating from everybody and it helped work go by faster :lol

post #1605 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meast View Post
 

You keep mentioning guys that are stars in this league and using middle of the road players against them.

 

Why haven't middle of the road players on other teams improved aspects of their game as well, if it were so simple?

u just completely ignored my point. u said ibakas numbers went down, i pulled up his stats showing hes a better shooter on paper than our entire team. u have no comment on that? bosh is a star, wade is a star, green has star potential. these arent middle of the road players. tj is a rook, winslow and richardson are rooks. almost else on the team is pretty much a vet. with many of them at one point being stars.  and other players in the nba aren't willing to put in that time. but i dont care about those players, cuz theyre not on my team. if they were on my team, id suddenly care. the players on my team are my concern. so when i see these EXTREMELY talented roster the miami heat have, and see they have the same problems in 2016 as they did in 2011... theres a problem. and theres a simple solution to fixing the problem.

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post #1606 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
 

Simple solution, and note, I said simple, is Miami has to figure out a way to win with what they have. No one is taking Andersen and his contract, UD isn't going anywhere, STAT isn't going anywhere, even though he can stand a just a few more minutes with McBob out, and there is no way Winslow gets traded, Green is hot or cold, not a lot of in between. I can see Miami riding the Bosh train until the wheels fall off at this pace and hope that he doesn't go down with an injury. 

nailed it with winning with what we have. we've GOT to sharpen them up. but for some reason.... season after seson... we dont. we have no outside scoring threats. imagine if wade, green, and bosh were legit outside threats. the entire middle of the floor opens up for cuts and post work. imagine the work hassan can do if the floor is spaced out? SMH. imagine P&R between wade/tj/dragic/udrih and hassan/bosh/winslow/green if the former players are legit threats outside? itd look like what the warriors ran with steph and greene against the cavs. theres literally nothing u can do. u HAVE to guard the 3 on the screen cuz if u dont its going up. if u guard the 3 on the screen u have to fight the cut inside. u either foul or hope they miss. theres NOTHING else u can do. and hassan aint missing that lob. bosh aint missing that layup or spot up inside shot. green aint missing that dunk. itd be incredible. and god forbid u somehow figure out how to stop the player who rolled inside with a sharpened up luol or someone else chilling in the corner. WHAT COULD A DEFENSE DO against that? like i said, we have the pieces. theyre just not sharp enough

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post #1607 of 2814

OK man, you're right on ALL aspects.

 

:lol @ GG being star potential at 30 years old (in a week) and 9 NBA teams.

post #1608 of 2814

Also, you guys have legit P-N-R personnel, shouldn't that also be an option?

post #1609 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meast View Post
 

OK man, you're right on ALL aspects.

 

:lol @ GG being star potential at 30 years old (in a week) and 9 NBA teams.

 

so being 30 stops star potential (checks wades age.... looks at this years new and improved statline. checks lebrons age. checks bosh's age. checks carmelos age. gasol's age. gortats age. joakims age. millsaps age. lowry's age. demarre carrolls age.) hm... literally the entire frontcourt leaders for the east except for 2 players are age 29+. with only 2 of those i named being 29. and this is ONLY the leaders east team, and ONLY the 3rd returns. but sure, 30 is why GG does NOT have star potential. 

 

tumblr_m451fqpNox1r6zkjm.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
 

Also, you guys have legit P-N-R personnel, shouldn't that also be an option?

 

at this current time it wouldnt be as effective as it should. because if its a high P&R, nobody is scared of the 3. no reason to even fight through the screen, just move under the screen or soft switch. 

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post #1610 of 2814

Oh, you mean all the guys you named that are all stars and have been superstars in this league, with the exception of Gortat and Carroll. Those guys?

 

 Yup, GG fits in that ball park perfectly with his NBDL MVP/All-Star back in 2012. But you right, 10 years in the league and having been in the NBA, NBDL, China & Russia and he's right on the cusp on stardom. You right....

post #1611 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meast View Post
 

Oh, you mean all the guys you named that are all stars and have been superstars in this league, with the exception of Gortat and Carroll. Those guys?

 

 Yup, GG fits in that ball park perfectly with his NBDL MVP/All-Star back in 2012. But you right, 10 years in the league and having been in the NBA, NBDL, China & Russia and he's right on the cusp on stardom. You right....

i literally said he has the potential. he has the athleticism, he has shown he CAN shoot, he cn take over a game. dude definitely has the potential. u said hes almost 30 as a reason to counter that. and if he was an all-star in 2012 hes already shown what he CAN be. how can u argue that green doesnt have the potential? i dont understand. and now ur making MORE Excuses. so now 30 isn't a reason to not have star-potential... only if you're 30 and have never previously been a "superstar." any other restrictions coming up we should know about that will prevent someone from having star potential?

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post #1612 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
 

Simple solution, and note, I said simple, is Miami has to figure out a way to win with what they have. No one is taking Andersen and his contract, UD isn't going anywhere, STAT isn't going anywhere, even though he can stand a just a few more minutes with McBob out, and there is no way Winslow gets traded, Green is hot or cold, not a lot of in between. I can see Miami riding the Bosh train until the wheels fall off at this pace and hope that he doesn't go down with an injury. 

Deng/Bird(expiring contracts) is all we have to offer

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post #1613 of 2814
You're lying to yourself because Gerald Green has only shot 40 percent from the 3point line ONCE in his 9 year career. If Gerald was as great as you're propping him up to be he wouldn't have been available for the minimum. He's the type of player you expect inconsistencies from. His MO is that of a streaky shooter.
post #1614 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Cashfl0w View Post

You're lying to yourself because Gerald Green has only shot 40 percent from the 3point line ONCE in his 9 year career. If Gerald was as great as you're propping him up to be he wouldn't have been available for the minimum. He's the type of player you expect inconsistencies from. His MO is that of a streaky shooter.

 

i believe he can be more than what he has shown. i believe all of our guys can.

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post #1615 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlDirtyReseller View Post
 

Deng/Bird(expiring contracts) is all we have to offer


I cant see a team, unless it is a true contender and needs the "insurance" of a big taking on that contract. As far as Deng, yeah y'all can trade him, but isn't he kind of important because there aren't too many perimeter defenders on the team.

post #1616 of 2814

NBDL All-Star...

 

They aren't restrictions. It's more of a realistic view point. How many guys take over and become all stars at age 30 and over? Who really becomes a top player in the NBA at that age and continues, if they haven't been one before? 

 

You can keep throwing out potential all you want, but you know what you get with him. He will never reach that "potential". It's been 10 years. Let that dream go.

post #1617 of 2814
You believing that they could become more then what they've shown doesn't mean they aren't putting in the work which was your original argument. Some guys just aren't going to be Steph Curry.
post #1618 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Cashfl0w View Post

You believing that they could become more then what they've shown doesn't mean they aren't putting in the work which was your original argument. Some guys just aren't going to be Steph Curry.

u dont gotta be steph. why not aim for ibaka then :lol aim to be DECENT enough to affect the flow of the game. because again, the only person on our team shooting 40% from 3 is birdman which we all know, doesnt count. and im not expecting them to practice and suddenly become steph or klay. but i DO expect them to put in steph or klay hours and show improvement in the offseasons. and nobody is showing improvement. u think theyre in the gym putting hours into practicing shooting with nothing to show for it? is that your stance?

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post #1619 of 2814
Serge Ibaka is an average shooter who was regressed the past 2 seasons. You're just throwing out names right now hoping something will stick.

And if we are talking strickly 3 point FG, his last 4 seasons
2015-16 .405
2014-15 .376
2013-14 .383
2012-13 .351

What are you talking about!
post #1620 of 2814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Cashfl0w View Post

Serge Ibaka is an average shooter who was regressed the past 2 seasons. You're just throwing out names right now hoping something will stick.

And if we are talking strickly 3 point FG, his last 4 seasons
2015-16 .405
2014-15 .376
2013-14 .383
2012-13 .351

What are you talking about!

throwing out names? other dude said his 3pt % dropped. i said if they dropped they dropped to 40. which is better than our entire teams shooting % from 3. which it is. so other dude was wrong and in fact his numbers haven't dropped theyve improved. what names am i throwing around? ibaka undoubtedly developed a 3pter over a summer. and from these numbers here, he averages more than our entire team. serge ibaka.... more than everyone else on our team. so if "an average shooter who has regressed the past 2 seasons" is shooting better than EVERYONE on our team from 3.... what does that say? we have below average shooters right? so what does that mean.... they should probably get in the gym and practice in the offseason right? case closed.

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