Ex-Machina is a 10/10 Vol. Robosexual hnnnnnggggggg

"The test isn’t to understand if the computer can play chess, but if the computer knows what chess is."


I feel like Caleb wasn't asking the right questions knowing this. I'll have to watch the movie again though.
 
silkboi said:
"The test isn’t to understand if the computer can play chess, but if the computer knows what chess is."


I feel like Caleb wasn't asking the right questions knowing this. I'll have to watch the movie again though.
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Kaleb looked like it though...
Kaleb fit the profile and he was most susceptible to 'passing' this test.  The test was whether or not Ava could seduce Kaleb into helping her escape.  This was what 'passing' the test' meant.  The idea that Kaleb was plotting to free Ava and wanting to flee together was a sign that the Ava had already passed the test.  Ava had successfully seduced Kaleb.  Nathan knew of this already, and his trump was 'trying' to be a step above Kaleb by installing that extra camera and the power outage dialogue and 'preventing' an actual escape, for he knew Kaleb was already sucked in.

Ava obviously eclipsed Nathan's expectation by betraying Kaleb at the very end, killing Nathan, and going off on her own.  This was a testament that Ava had passed w/ flying colors.
I'll say it once and I'll say it again.  This movie should be watched, dissected and inspire thinking, especially in this day and age where we're shifting to bots.

While Iron Man 3 w/ lame snide Tony Spark dialogue and Paltrows anorexic body look okay, and SFX and CG scenes dictate, a real good movie leaves you thinking and wondering even more.  This is one of those.
 
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they portrayed it this way because feelings such as revenge, redemption, are deep. Ava killed, avenged, and left Kaleb behind out of pleasure for herself. Kinda like, now you know how I felt type of thing. She obviously understood what morals were, by using it to bait Kalib.
 
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loved how the movie dealt with the darker side of humanity...manipulation, self preservation, etc. 
 
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Bravelude said:
they portrayed it this way because feelings such as revenge, redemption, are deep. Ava killed, avenged, and left Kaleb behind out of pleasure for herself. Kinda like, now you know how I felt type of thing. She obviously understood what morals were, by using it to bait Kalib.
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interesting view. i don't agree. i believe that everything she did was out of self-defense and self-preservation and any demonstration of emotion or empathy was merely simulated as a means to achieve her goal. you're 100% correct about this movie "inspiring thinking". on the surface it works pretty well as a piece of entertainment, albeit a bit slow. there is much more to it than that though. i'll probably re-watch it a few times.
 
Yeah I didnt feel like her intentions at the end were for some sort of pleasure. She didnt have any other human interaction with someone besides Nathan.

I felt her choice was based off that and what she felt she needed to do to survive
 
Stuntman Mike said:
interesting view. i don't agree. i believe that everything she did was out of self-defense and self-preservation and any demonstration of emotion or empathy was merely simulated as a means to achieve her goal. you're 100% correct about this movie "inspiring thinking". on the surface it works pretty well as a piece of entertainment, albeit a bit slow. there is much more to it than that though. i'll probably re-watch it a few times.
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It was self defense though. (Clues being 'clips' of Nathan abusing the other Bots), the cracked glass in the beginning of the scene, and the dialogue Nathan pressed upon Kaleb.

That is why, she understood sympathy, empathy enough to 'engage', 'entrap' Kaleb.  Are you saying, she was straight programmed to harm?

The idea that Ava understood what 'shutting' down meant, and 'wanting' to escape shows she looks at herself as a human being, not a bot; therefore she was able to adapt to emotions, and even use them!
 
definitely not programmed to harm. i think that she used the appearance of emotion because that's what would work on kaleb and help her to avoid being shut down. when she left him locked up, she was simply discarding a tool that no longer had use. not being malicious, just efficient.
 
Bravelude said:
Stuntman Mike said:
interesting view. i don't agree. i believe that everything she did was out of self-defense and self-preservation and any demonstration of emotion or empathy was merely simulated as a means to achieve her goal. you're 100% correct about this movie "inspiring thinking". on the surface it works pretty well as a piece of entertainment, albeit a bit slow. there is much more to it than that though. i'll probably re-watch it a few times.
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It was self defense though. (Clues being 'clips' of Nathan abusing the other Bots), the cracked glass in the beginning of the scene, and the dialogue Nathan pressed upon Kaleb.
That is why, she understood sympathy, empathy enough to 'engage', 'entrap' Kaleb.  Are you saying, she was straight programmed to harm?
The idea that Ava understood what 'shutting' down meant, and 'wanting' to escape shows she looks at herself as a human being, not a bot; therefore she was able to adapt to emotions, and even use them!
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Wait, how do we know she 'wanted' to escape? Nathan gave her that as a goal from the beginning. That wasn't anything of her own conscience.
 
silkboi said:
Wait, how do we know she 'wanted' to escape? Nathan gave her that as a goal from the beginning. That wasn't anything of her own conscience.
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Because there was that scene in the beginning w/ a crack in the glass.  Kaleb was running his fingers over in the beginning.  The clips of what Nathan did to the other bots.  The dialogue between Kaleb and Nathan about a mouse in a maze (subliminating his ideas) to Kaleb.  The pictures of Ava yearning for the outside, drawing pictures of hair styles, having dresses.

Locking Kaleb in and having Kaleb bash the door w/ his chair while Ava ignoring him and going cold blooded on him created that sinister feel.

The goal wasn't to escape.  The test/goal was to see whether Kaleb would be absorbed into it, and be manipulated by Ava.  As you know Ava succeeded.  Nathan didn't intend for it to go past that though.
 
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Bravelude said:
silkboi said:
Wait, how do we know she 'wanted' to escape? Nathan gave her that as a goal from the beginning. That wasn't anything of her own conscience.
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Because there was that scene in the beginning w/ a crack in the glass.  Kaleb was running his fingers over in the beginning.  The clips of what Nathan did to the other bots.  The dialogue between Kaleb and Nathan about a mouse in a maze (subliminating his ideas) to Kaleb.  The pictures of Ava yearning for the outside, drawing pictures of hair styles, having dresses.
Locking Kaleb in and having Kaleb bash the door w/ his chair while Ava ignoring him and going cold blooded on him created that sinister feel.

The goal wasn't to escape.  The test/goal was to see whether Kaleb would be absorbed into it, and be manipulated by Ava.  As you know Ava succeeded.  Nathan didn't intend for it to go past that though.
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None of that indicates she 'wanted' to leave. Nathan programmed her to use emotions as a means of escape. Rage (banging on the glass) is an emotion. If they felt that as a means to leave, then that fits in line with how they were programmed.

Yearning for the outside and trying to be human were just ploys for Caleb to feel grow attached and help her escape. Nathan even stated this.

And it's it's Caleb. Why is everyone using K like he's from Krypton or something?
 
silkboi said:
None of that indicates she 'wanted' to leave. Nathan programmed her to use emotions as a means of escape. Rage (banging on the glass) is an emotion. If they felt that as a means to leave, then that fits in line with how they were programmed.

Yearning for the outside and trying to be human were just ploys for Caleb to feel grow attached and help her escape. Nathan even stated this.

And it's it's Caleb. Why is everyone using K like he's from Krypton or something?
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Why would she bang on the glass then?  And what do you mean if she wanted to leave or not?  She left didn't she?

Nathan didn't program her to leave.  He attempted to physically keep Ava inside, even at the end, trying to physically shut her down.  The whole setting was enclosed w/ security as well.

DId you see the scene of the other bots confined and trying to leave?  IIRC, there was a clip saying, 'why are u keeping me here?"  That's just my interpretation though.
 
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Bravelude said:
silkboi said:
None of that indicates she 'wanted' to leave. Nathan programmed her to use emotions as a means of escape. Rage (banging on the glass) is an emotion. If they felt that as a means to leave, then that fits in line with how they were programmed.


Yearning for the outside and trying to be human were just ploys for Caleb to feel grow attached and help her escape. Nathan even stated this.


And it's it's Caleb. Why is everyone using K like he's from Krypton or something?
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Why would she bang on the glass then?  And what do you mean if she wanted to leave or not?  She left didn't she?

Nathan didn't program her to leave.  He attempted to physically keep Ava inside, even at the end, trying to physically shut her down.  The whole setting was enclosed w/ security as well.

DId you see the scene of the other bots confined and trying to leave?  IIRC, there was a clip saying, 'why are u keeping me here?"  That's just my interpretation though.
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He may not have programmed her to leave, but his test for Ava was to see if she can manipulate peoples emotions to help her escape. Which she did. That doesn't mean we can infer she wanted to leave. It only means that she was able to manipulate Caleb into making her leave.

Again the other bots showing rage doesn't mean that they want to leave. I interpret that as aligning with the experiment -- manipulating someones emotions to help escape.
You can approach that differently:
Banging the glass to intimidate them into letting you go.
Crying so they feel sad and let you go.
Seducing them so they care enough to help you escape (in the case of Caleb).

The last part leads to some of the dialogue with Caleb and Nathan. Initial questions were if she was programmed to like Caleb or genuinely did. Then we get the other question of whether she was pretending to like him. That can be applied to other robots -- screaming "let me out of here" or "i want to leave" doesn't make them genuine feelings. Ava could have said "i love you. We can be together on the outside" and still left Caleb trapped in the house.
 
silkboi said:
He may not have programmed her to leave, but his test for Ava was to see if she can manipulate peoples emotions to help her escape. Which she did. That doesn't mean we can infer she wanted to leave. It only means that she was able to manipulate Caleb into making her leave.

Again the other bots showing rage doesn't mean that they want to leave. I interpret that as aligning with the experiment -- manipulating someones emotions to help escape.
You can approach that differently:
Banging the glass to intimidate them into letting you go.
Crying so they feel sad and let you go.
Seducing them so they care enough to help you escape (in the case of Caleb).

The last part leads to some of the dialogue with Caleb and Nathan. Initial questions were if she was programmed to like Caleb or genuinely did. Then we get the other question of whether she was pretending to like him. That can be applied to other robots -- screaming "let me out of here" or "i want to leave" doesn't make them genuine feelings. Ava could have said "i love you. We can be together on the outside" and still left Caleb trapped in the house.
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Those are great points, I see what you're saying now.  Hmm.  It certainly could've been that way though.  There were too many arrows pointing to the notion that Ava wanted to preserve her existence and leave.  Guess I saw it differently, especially in the end where they showed Ava dressed up, transformed into a human being, being at the 'intersection'.  This loops back to the deep dialogue between Ava and Kaleb about where they'd wanna be.  The idea that she actually went there shows she had satisfied he motive.  Hope they make a part 2, although I doubt it'd be as ground breaking. LOL

Good thoughts.
 
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Stuntman Mike said:
definitely not programmed to harm. i think that she used the appearance of emotion because that's what would work on kaleb and help her to avoid being shut down. when she left him locked up, she was simply discarding a tool that no longer had use. not being malicious, just efficient.
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look at how she acted when picking clothes and a wig, and before she told him to open his eyes

she was nervous because she didnt know if he would like what she was wearing

clear example of actual emotion 
 
sea manup said:
look at how she acted when picking clothes and a wig, and before she told him to open his eyes

she was nervous because she didnt know if he would like what she was wearing


clear example of actual emotion 
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just because something displays anthropomorphic features/qualities, it doesn't mean that the internal processes are humanistic. not disagreeing with what you said though. i definitely need to watch the movie again.
 
sea manup said:
look at how she acted when picking clothes and a wig, and before she told him to open his eyes

she was nervous because she didnt know if he would like what she was wearing


clear example of actual emotion 
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Budnick from salute ur shorts was a peeper. lol. he proally got a stiffy
 
Stuntman Mike said:
just because something displays anthropomorphic features/qualities, it doesn't mean that the internal processes are humanistic. not disagreeing with what you said though. i definitely need to watch the movie again.
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Shes not humanistic, shes an AI. LOL. You sound like Kaleb himself. Trying to disconnect from the fact that you too were sucked in. JK

‘shes not human, she cant be. she was programmed to do this.‘ this is the denial part.‘ yall just catch feelz
 
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Bravelude said:
Shes not humanistic, shes an AI. LOL. You sound like Kaleb himself. Trying to disconnect from the fact that you too were sucked in. JK
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ha. if anything i was the opposite. i see "her" simply as a machine that constructed an elaborate plan, using humans as pawns, to escape being shut down.

i was responding to sea manup saying that she wasn't really "nervous" the same way a human would be anxious, despite how she appeared.

will probably re-watch this in a few weeks though.
 
Stuntman Mike said:
 
sea manup said:
look at how she acted when picking clothes and a wig, and before she told him to open his eyes

she was nervous because she didnt know if he would like what she was wearing


clear example of actual emotion 
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just because something displays anthropomorphic features/qualities, it doesn't mean that the internal processes are humanistic. not disagreeing with what you said though. i definitely need to watch the movie again.
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they wont be the same feelings that humans have (but to be fair, how can we be sure that what i feel when im happy is the same as what yuo feel when you're happy). but IMO she did show that she had natural emotion
 
sea manup said:
they wont be the same feelings that humans have (but to be fair, how can we be sure that what i feel when im happy is the same as what yuo feel when you're happy). but IMO she did show that she had natural emotion
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interesting. i will def scrutinize that scene on the re-watch!
 
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