NT got soft af vol. made in uhmerica

we're asking publicly for TRANSPARENCY

your answers are really vague when it comes to the Jenner thread..... you say it was "obvious" yet no one knows
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You know full well what the problem was.  I suspect everyone here does.  That's why there's complaining.  "NT's soft because you can't trans-bash now wah wah wah!!"

Look at the topic post in the Jenner thread and tell me it was going to be respectful.  

We allowed the other one because at least it was framed respectfully and had SOME respectful conversation.  This one was doomed from the start.  
If someone wants to be immature let them be immature.
They will get ignored and eventually a discussion will come up about a topic that is in the media.
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We're supposed to allow hundreds of trans-bashing replies to allow for the possibility that someone might have a mature and respectful discussion? 

No.  

Take the icloud hacking story.  That's a "topic that is in the media."  Can our members handle it?  No, unfortunately.  They can't.  

Literally THOUSANDS of posts are added to our forums each day.  It's a triage situation.  You don't let threads with a chance die because you're spending six hours performing CPR on a corpse.  

It took probably 20 minutes to go through and clean up the "Fools Wildin" thread today.  That's a thread many of you enjoy.  I could've locked that one and spent an hour trying to clean up the Caitlyn Jenner thread.  Would you have preferred that?  

We have finite resources at our disposal here.  
 
Define NSFW?....


Because if my boss saw me in the big breast appreciation thread I would probably be at least suspended for viewing pornographic material online :lol:


Ima sip this tea in the corner tho.....been here a little too long to know in a user to mod/admin discussion, the user Midas we'll take that L from the jump
 
And I'm pretty sure the discussion in the Caitlyn thread while a bit heated I wouldnt consider it gender bashing.
 
All im sayin is...the INTERNET is nsfw.
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That's just it.  There are millions of vulgar, disrespectful, and downright hateful comment sections on the Internet.  Shouldn't there be room for ONE that tries to be safe, friendly, and welcoming for people of all backgrounds?

The reason NikeTalk was created in the first place is because people were ruining the existing sneaker message boards with petty squabbling, porn, and racist hate speech.  

I had to warn somebody literally five minutes ago for using a racial slur on here.  It takes a lot of work, but however imperfect our forums may be all it takes is one glance at an ordinary comments section and the effort seems both necessary and worthwhile.  
ksteezy said:
Define NSFW?....


Because if my boss saw me in the big breast appreciation thread I would probably be at least suspended for viewing pornographic material online
laugh.gif



Ima sip this tea in the corner tho.....been here a little too long to know in a user to mod/admin discussion, the user Midas we'll take that L from the jump
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http://niketalk.com/t/516943/reminder-nsfw-content-is-not-appropriate-for-niketalk
Meth looks like you need help 
nerd.gif


Just give out some 10 day contracts to see who can mod or not 
nerd.gif
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You know what's even better than having 10 extra people trying to clean up after 1,000 users each?  

If each user would just monitor THEIR OWN posts.  
 
10 day contract :lol:


let's have free agency to become NT mod.

with trainning camp and a all-star weekend.

:rofl:
 
Methodical Management said:
 
You know full well what the problem was.  I suspect everyone here does.  That's why there's complaining.  "NT's soft because you can't trans-bash now wah wah wah!!"

Look at the topic post in the Jenner thread and tell me it was going to be respectful.  

We allowed the other one because at least it was framed respectfully and had SOME respectful conversation.  This one was doomed from the start.  
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there was no bashing going on 

the only argument was over the use of the pronouns "she" and "her" --- the literal meaning vs how society changed/interprets the literal meaning 

selective outlawing of slander....  we can bash Lebron's hairline, social media thots, and heterosexual celebs out there buggin....but Jenner off limits tho because slander is automatically a hate crime now ... even when no one took it there 

no use of homophobic slurs, low key slurs, or anything like that.....  people just thought the dude was buggin and looked all kinds of crazy

whatever tho man.... even if you were wrong you wouldnt admit it because that would open up a can of worms i wouldnt want to deal with either
 
People have no common sense. Just because it's the internet, you can't say whatever you want. 50% of the threads in General are garbage anyway....just taking up bandwidth.
 
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Methodical Management said:
Most of the time, it's pretty obvious.  

Out of the dozens of topics created today, one thread was locked today in the General forum.  Two were deleted.

The one thread that was locked - which prompted this "protest" thread - was fraught with rule violations and disrespectful comments.  The rules are very clear about derogatory comments concerning sexuality.  

For all this talk about 'oh, we're all mature here," the truth of the matter is that a mature audience wouldn't use that type of language in a semi-public setting.  A mature audience wouldn't start begging for pornographic images in front of children.  A mature audience wouldn't use slurs.  

A mature audience could handle a discussion of the icloud hacking.  Sadly, if we were to leave such a thread open here we would have to basically assign a moderator to monitor it 24 hours a day.  We can't do that.  

Consequently, we have to close such discussions rather than divert staff resources that are needed elsewhere.  


Of the two deleted threads, one had profanity in the topic post and the other was an obvious nuisance thread created by a troll.


The last locked post in General was this one:  http://niketalk.com/t/627562/i-want-to-learn-how-to-hack-crack

The reasoning there is obvious.  Our community isn't going to be a training ground for illegal/unethical activity.  


Anyone with a legitimate question about something can ask privately.  When it happens publicly, people just want to grandstand and be "rebellious."  We're not going to have a public hearing over every administrative action just because a few of you are bored.  If we did, the site wouldn't function.  



The rules are the same throughout the site.  It's user reporting that varies.  

We have more problems with people posting childish insults in the major S&T threads because those involve opposing fan bases and the situation can be adversarial.  That doesn't mean we ALLOW insults in those threads.  It just means that it happens more often.  You're not notified every time a user receives a warning on the site.  We're constantly responding to rule violations throughout the community, but it's no more possible for us to do so PERFECTLY than it is for your Internet provider to catch EVERY software pirate.  If you're illegally downloading something, you can say "but everyone does it," but that's not an excuse.  You're choosing to take a risk and violate what you know to be the law.  If you're caught, you have nobody to blame but yourself.  



Over the years, we've banned more people on this site for racism than for heterosexism - and by an incredibly wide margin.   

In this particular case, you couldn't even get that one sentence out without using a slur - and that in itself is indicative of just how widespread the problem was.  


 

If we only allowed people to post things that the staff or I personally agree with, NikeTalk wouldn't be as interesting or dynamic a community.  That said, there's a very fine line between allowing people to express differing viewpoints and allowing people to post hate speech.



A thread with one person whose views I personally consider repugnant is different than a thread in which dozens of participants are literally using slurs.

If someone started a thread about an interracial couple and the MAJORITY of participants were calling their marriage "unnatural" and "wrong," that would NOT be allowed to continue.  


An "appreciation" thread where most people are abiding by our image policies and refraining from posting anything NSFW will stay open even if one or two users are causing problems.  The "fools wilding" thread was kept open even after half a dozen users were requesting pornographic images via PM.  The majority of users were not cost the opportunity to participate due to the actions of a few.

That's NOT what happened in the Jenner thread.  If we only allowed respectful comments in there, there would be no discussion.  I'm not devoting a ton of staff resources to allow one "good for her" reply for every fifty deleted posts bashing transgender people.  
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I think just a solid "no talking about transgendered people will be allowed" or something like that as the final OP would be nice..

I've seen it done quite a few times... Mods leave a solid reason as the LP and dip like a freak nasty song.


With the Bruce gender thread... I kinda figured folks were cleaning.. But I think the reassurance of what people did wrong would go a long way
 
Shouldn't there be room for ONE that tries to be safe, friendly, and welcoming for people of all backgrounds?
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I respect what you want to do.

Thats going to be hard though man....and its only going to get tougher as the times progress.

But yea.

Thats wassup.
 
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011781 said:
 
selective outlawing of slander....  we can bash Lebron's hairline, social media thots, and heterosexual celebs out there buggin....but Jenner off limits tho because slander is automatically a hate crime now ... even when no one took it there 
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You're seriously comparing insulting LeBron's hairline with insulting Caitlyn Jenner's sexuality?  

"Russell Westbrook is wearing a tacky shirt" is different than calling somebody "gay" as an insult, or making a racist joke.  
I respect what you want to do.

Thats going to be hard though man....and its only going to get tougher as the times progress.
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We've been doing it for a decade and a half already.  It was always going to be challenging.  Most things worth doing are.  

We're not going to abandon that pursuit today just because ten users apparently want the "right" to insult transgender people on a private message board.  
I think just a solid "no talking about transgendered people will be allowed" or something like that as the final OP would be nice..
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"Talking about" a transgender person is different than making derogatory comments about transgender people as a group.  

"I wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton because I don't agree with her stance on ____" is different than "I wouldn't vote for a woman."  

When we started NikeTalk over 15 years ago, most people (according to public opinion polling) opposed marriage equality - or even civil unions for same sex couples.  It was even more common for people to use the word "gay" as a pejorative, or use outright slurs to refer to anyone who wasn't straight.   

There were certainly those who argued that same sex couples were "unnatural" and illegitimate.  The fact that it was a popular prejudice didn't make it acceptable.  

We don't have to wait until the momentum swings on the public opinion polling to "realize" that it's wrong to attack transgender people.  We've never allowed it and we're not about to start now.  

There are many opinions you can't express on our community to ensure that it remains a respectful place.  You might think user X is an imbecile, but you have to keep that opinion to yourself. 

If you go to a movie theater, everyone in the audience has to make certain sacrifices in order for that to be an enjoyable experience.  You have to voluntarily agree to turn off your cell phone, sit still, and be quiet for the duration of the film.  You could jump around screaming while brandishing glow sticks "because America," but you'd be thrown out and rightly so.  If that's what you really want to do, you can do so at home. 

These are small sacrifices, but important ones if we're all to share and enjoy this community together. 
 
meant to ask, will my ban from the marvel thread ever be lifted....you said you would consider it after a week, it's been about a month :nerd:
 
Females get bashed on the daily on NT, even when they are being praised like in the "_______appreciation" threads, the context is derogatory and somewhat offensive to the female online population....I honestly don't care Meth...I'm just pointing out the very obvious grey area in the rules when it comes to juggling what's appropiate and what is not, what gets you a ban/suspension as opposed to what won't.
 
ksteezy said:
Females get bashed on the daily on NT, even when they are being praised like in the "_______appreciation" threads, the context is derogatory and somewhat offensive to the female online population....I honestly don't care Meth...I'm just pointing out the very obvious grey area in the rules when it comes to juggling what's appropiate and what is not, what gets you a ban/suspension as opposed to what won't.
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We warn, suspend, and ban people for sexism all the time.

In fact, I remember a similar outcry when we issued a reminder about it:  http://niketalk.com/t/273406/remind...nt-get-banned-for-making-a-tired-kitchen-quip

If you see it, report it - because we WILL act on that.  You may not care about sexism, but I do.  

Nothing would be easier for our staff than to ban the appreciation threads outright.  It's easier just to say "you guys don't have the maturity to handle it" than to constantly go in there and clean things up when the line is crossed.  As pointed out earlier - and as should be obvious from the announcements section atop this very forum -  we HAVE articulated where that line is - so it's not the "grey area" you're making it out to be.  

If you don't know what "NSFW" means within the context of NikeTalk, you can click that link for additional detail. 

In all candor, there's probably not a week that goes by when Huddler doesn't get a complaint from Google about something in one of those threads.  When that happens, it's always a post that users didn't bother to report.  (Google can't complain about something that's already been deleted, after all.)

There's a reason we go to bat for you on that, and there's a reason why they're allowed, provided the images are, at worst, "PG."  

I have a problem with sexism, and I have a problem with nudity to the extent that we need to respect that our community is viewed in public places, in professional settings, in homes with young children, by young children, and so on.  

I don't have a problem with the female body. 

There's certainly cause to be concerned about the objectification of women, treating women as sex objects.  There's also a sexist tradition of policing female bodies - as with school dress codes, etc.  

"Blaming" the female body for sexism is, itself, sexist and representative of rape culture.  

There's also the possibility that certain threads could be construed as "body positive."  One of the original "appreciation" threads seemed at least ostensibly devoted to countering the "law of the bluest eye" and the standard of beauty that represents.  Celebrating beauty in that way can be uplifting rather than degrading.  It's a matter of how it's handled.  

So I can see allowing "appreciation threads" provided they are respectful.  

It's interesting to me that they only ever come up when you guys want to get away with something.  

If they confuse you, if allowing them somehow makes you think it's okay to disrespect people, then by all means we will prohibit them entirely.  

Is that what you want, or would you rather work within the confines of the rules to keep those threads open and respectful?  
 
Methodical Management said:
The rules haven't changed.  No profanity.  No hate speech.  No derogatory comments about race/ethnicity/gender/sexuality.  

If there's a thread that's being ruined by a small number of users, those users will be removed.  If there's a thread that the majority of participants cannot handle without violating our forum rules, that thread will be locked.  
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WHY WAS MY POST IN THIS THREAD DELETED! WHY ARE YOU CENSORING ME METH?!

I understand, you may have (wrongly) believed that my posts in certain threads were unacceptable, that's fine. But why do you delete my post in this thread where I'm asking about those? It angers me that I'm attempting to post on my favorite website and can't even be myself because my post just gets deleted for no reason. Or at least it seems like there is no reason, hence why it just gets deleted.

C'mon Meth!

edit: Patiently waits for this post to be deleted.
 
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zapatohead408 said:
Methodical Management said:
The rules haven't changed.  No profanity.  No hate speech.  No derogatory comments about race/ethnicity/gender/sexuality.  

If there's a thread that's being ruined by a small number of users, those users will be removed.  If there's a thread that the majority of participants cannot handle without violating our forum rules, that thread will be locked.  
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WHY WAS MY POST IN THIS THREAD DELETED! WHY ARE YOU CENSORING ME METH?!

I understand, you may have (wrongly) believed that my posts in certain threads were unacceptable, that's fine. But why do you delete my post in this thread where I'm asking about those? It angers me that I'm attempting to post on my favorite website and can't even be myself because my post just gets deleted for no reason. Or at least it seems like there is no reason, hence why it just gets deleted.

C'mon Meth!

edit: Patiently waits for this post to be deleted.
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And this one.
 
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