THE 2015 NBA PRE SEASON THREAD: BEST WISHES TO LAMAR ODOM

[grusumm18]

is Ed Davis still out there?

Happy for harden and Adidas

stripes stay losing

 

[the collector]

Kobe Bryant playing with more talent than any other player to enter the league since Magic Johnson as big of a reason for his 5 titles as any mentality.

Kobe Bryant lost an NBA FInals with a teammate average 27 and 14 on damn near 60% from the field.

You find me another all time great that lost a playoff series yet alone an NBA Finals with a teammate putting up numbers like that.

Alpha though

Yeah what a luxury he had. NBA streets paved with purple and gold right? Smh

Find me 10 NBA champion rosters who didn't have tons of talent and multiple all stars. Dudes are literally taking my word alpha that I'm using to describe how Kobe carries himself. An are applying it to stats.

It's two totally different things. Someone help me explain this better. I know someone gets what I mean.

 

[tbreeze]

Yeah what a luxury he had. NBA streets paved with purple and gold right? Smh

Find me 10 NBA champion rosters who didn't have tons of talent and multiple all stars. Dudes are literally taking my word alpha that I'm using to describe how Kobe carries himself. An are applying it to stats.

It's two totally different things. Someone help me explain this better. I know someone gets what I mean.

I just accept it for what it is at this point. The Kobe bashing gets so ridiculous

 

[essential1]

When did he quit against the Suns?

You really did not watch that game did you?

He had 23 points on 8/13 shooting in the first half and the team was down by 15.

Soooooo It's pretty clear him carrying that team on his back was not going to work. Even if he scored 50 and ended up shooting 16 of 26, they still would have lost.

Especially after he just went 50-8-5 on 57% shooting in Game 6, and they lost.


So what did he do? He tried to get Smush Parker, Lamar Odom & Kwame Brown rolling because that's what the team needed. They clearly were not going to win with Kobe taking all the shots even if he made over 50% of them. They needed other guys to contribute. He tried to do that, and it didn't work.

 

[MVP]

Kobe Bryant playing with more talent than any other player to enter the league since Magic Johnson as big of a reason for his 5 titles as any mentality.

Kobe Bryant lost an NBA FInals with a teammate average 27 and 14 on damn near 60% from the field.

You find me another all time great that lost a playoff series yet alone an NBA Finals with a teammate putting up numbers like that.

Alpha though

D-Wade put up 27, 7, and 5 in 2011 Finals on 55% shooting.

While the supposed Alpha got punked by Jason Terry and DeShawn Stevenson. And subsequently had to have the other guy take a back seat in order to appease his ego and ultimately allow him to flourish.

 

[addict4sneakers]

Hopefully Adidas doesn't give Harden some garbage.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Wait, Kobe didn't quit in that PHX series? Not saying his team wasn't garbage, because it was GARBAGE, but he stopped giving any dambs. The numbers don't prove anything 

 

[lawdog1]

B

And it's official, Adidas got james harden. 200 mil sheeshh

No surprise. I just didn't see Nike fighting to keep Harden like they did with KD. KD already had an established, successful line. Harden didn't even have his own sig. At the price Adidas set, I knew Nike was going to let him walk.

Hope Adidas comes up with something good for him. I've liked some of the Rose models and Wall's shoes from last year. Lillard's were terrible though.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

D-Wade put up 27, 7, and 5 in 2011 Finals on 55% shooting.

Valid counterpoint 

 

[essential1]

Wait, Kobe didn't quit in that PHX series? Not saying his team wasn't garbage, because it was GARBAGE, but he stopped giving any dambs. The numbers don't prove anything 

Dave Mcmenamin on that game
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/columns/story?id=5195953

Bryant was coming off a 50-point game in Game 6, but the Lakers lost that game by eight points in overtime. 2005-06 was the year he averaged a career-high 35.4 points per game and dropped 81 on Toronto one fabled night.

Los Angeles was 18-9 during the regular season when Bryant scored 40-plus points.

But that approach had not worked against Phoenix.

The Lakers had won only once in the five games in which Bryant scored big against Phoenix that season. They lost the 50-pointer in Game 6 of the first round, and during the regular season his point totals against the Suns were 39 on Nov. 3, when the Lakers lost by 10; 37 on Jan. 20, when they lost by 13; and 51 on April 7, when they lost by 11.

Bryant got hot in the second quarter of Game 7, going 4-for-6 from 3-point range and scoring 18 points in the period, but the Lakers still trailed by 15 points at the half.

In the Lakers' three previous wins in the series, in Games 2 through 5, Bryant had averaged just 23.3 points and 6.7 assists, and the Lakers' frontcourt trio of Walton, Odom and Brown combined to average 43 points per game. Bryant's approach and the contributions of his teammates had, to that point, made the Lakers a more balanced team, more difficult to defend.

Bryant started the second half of Game 7 apparently sticking to a game plan of getting everybody involved. Parker missed a shot in the lane on the team's first possession. Bryant could have taken a contested 3-pointer the next time down the court, but instead worked it around the perimeter, seeing he could get a hockey-style assist if he kicked it to Parker and Parker fed Walton for a wide-open 3-pointer. Walton canned the shot.

Several possessions followed in which Bryant didn't even touch the ball, as Parker, Brown and Walton took turns missing layups down low.

When Bryant took his first shot of the second half -- a missed 3-pointer with 7:46 remaining in the third quarter and the Lakers down by 21 -- Collins pointed out that more than four minutes had ticked off the clock since halftime before Kobe shot.

If the plan at halftime laid out by Lakers coach Phil Jackson was to continue to try to get everyone going, Bryant was sticking to the plan. He had tested the beat-the-Suns-singlehandedly approach in previous games. It hadn't worked. Moving the ball, facilitating teammates' opportunities was a proven approach in the series.

About a minute later, Bryant ran down a loose ball at half court and reset the offense, looking for an opportunity. Odom eventually threw the ball away on a bad pass to a cutting Walton on the baseline.

"To get back in the game, we needed somebody else to start making shots," Bryant said to Plaschke this past weekend. "I was just trying to get the other guys going, turn the momentum around."

As the Suns' lead settled into the 20-point range and stayed there with a quarter-and-a-half of basketball left to call, Harlan and Collins focused on Bryant's shot selection, or lack thereof.

"When is Kobe going to start becoming aggressive?" Collins asked, with 5:23 to go in the third and the Lakers down 20, after Bryant made a basic entry pass to Parker on the wing to start the offense.

"You would think any moment," Harlan responded, as Parker turned the ball over while forcing a lazy entry pass and then fouling Shawn Marion who had just stolen it from him.

It was reasonable, given Kobe's ability to take over a game and his recent history of putting up big lines against the Suns, to focus on his point production and offensive aggressiveness. But it may have missed the point of his attack.

Moments later, out of a timeout, Bryant looked noticeably energized and got Raja Bell called for a foul as he made a hard cut to the hoop. After the ensuing inbounds pass, Bryant ran a give-and-go with Brown and missed a 3-point attempt from the corner.

The Suns then used a 7-0 run to go back up by 24 points. Jackson called for Odom to start taking his man off the dribble one-on-one from the top of the key. This produced moderate success, with Odom getting a bucket and then feeding Brown for a layup on consecutive possessions. The Lakers continued going through Odom for the rest of the quarter.

With the Lakers down 87-62 and the Suns doubling Bryant 25 feet from the basket, he found Devean George for an open 3-point attempt. George missed.

After the Lakers ran a successful set to get Sasha Vujacic an open 3-pointer that he made, Collins said, "Kobe's not even looking for his shot right now, just looking for these other guys to shoot the ball."


The Lakers were down 90-65 after three quarters.

Harlan: "Well, we're either going to see Kobe go like crazy in the fourth or the Los Angeles Lakers are going to be a part of playoff history: leading a series 3-1 and losing."

The look on Kobe's face as he hopped in place, awaiting the ball to start the fourth quarter, didn't look like somebody who was tanking. Brian Cook took the first three shots of the fourth for the Lakers, and the Suns' lead ballooned to 28. Next, even with the game long decided, Bryant was called for offensive fouls on consecutive possessions, apparently trying to spark something by going to the hole. And coming out of another timeout minutes later, Bryant aggressively split a double-team from Bell and Tim Thomas and was fouled. After the inbounds pass, Bryant worked the ball around and the Lakers went back inside to Odom who scored at the rim.

"Kobe Bryant took 35 field goal attempts on Thursday; tonight he has taken 16," was the on-air analysis after the made layup by Odom. Later it was, "Kobe's taken three shots this entire half. He has not gotten a field goal," immediately after Bryant passed the ball to change sides of the floor, a staple of the triangle offense. Walton canned an open jumper off the pass.

Bryant checked out of the game with 4:54 remaining and the Lakers down by 28 points. Pat Burke, a backup center from Ireland, came in for Phoenix and hit a 3-pointer from 28 feet out.

The Suns won the game 121-90. But they didn't win because Bryant took just three shots in the second half.

The Lakers, as a team, shot poorly and were routinely beaten by the Suns' pick-and-roll sets on offense.

L.A. decided to switch on the screens, leaving Nash free to shoot over big men who didn't close out fast enough to harrass his shots. Marion, Thomas and Boris Diaw were free to either shoot over smaller Lakers guards or roll all the way to the rim. When the Lakers did close out fast enough, they often over-pursued, leaving Nash and Barbosa opportunities to use their quick first steps to blow by unbalanced defenders. There was even one possession in the third quarter in which Parker was picked and George stayed with Diaw instead of switching, leaving Nash wide open as he traipsed in for a layup.

Lost in the "Kobe tanked" narrative was the fact that Barbosa and the Suns' bench outscored the Lakers' reserves 50-21. And obscured by the idea that Kobe didn't do enough to help his team win was the fact that the Suns shot 61 percent from the field, while no Lakers player (other than Bryant, who finished 8-for-16) shot 50 percent or better.

Current Phoenix head coach Alvin Gentry was a Suns assistant at the time. He was asked about Bryant's Game 7 before the start of Game 1 of the Western Conference finals Monday.

"Kobe is not a guy who has ever tanked anything," Gentry said, providing a view from the other side. "I don't see him as doing that. We played a great game that night and were able to win. I don't see him as a guy who would ever go there. … I would never use the word 'tank' and 'Kobe' in the same sentence."

Kobe's night, his tendency to pass the ball and to not force shots on offense, might have been the headline coming out of Game 7, and ever since.

But don't mistake it for the story.

 

[lawdog1]

I'm just going to leave this here, in case people forgot it existed:

http://niketalk.com/t/514515/is-kobe-bryant-overrated

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Appreciate the story Essential, I still don't think that proves that he didn't give up. It's all opinion obviously, but when you watch that game and say that he's doing what he can to win a game 7 in the second half I would just have to disagree. The article is making the point that "it wasn't all Kobe's fault" which is valid. I don't think that means that he didn't stop trying though

 

[MVP]

what that doesn't even make sense.

The only gut that gets criticized for shooting too much and losing and not shooting enough and losing when both clearly have bared out bad results.

 

[Quincy McCall]

How long til' 6ers sign Marcelo Huertas

 

[addict4sneakers]

The 05-06 lakers sucked but it's odd to see the same dude that publicly criticized Deron Williams for not shooting do the same thing.

It's very un Kobe-like to defer to lesser teammates. Especially ones he would rip years later

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

what that doesn't even make sense.

The only gut that gets criticized for shooting too much and losing and not shooting enough and losing when both clearly have bared out bad results.

There's a difference between chucking and passing to prove some kind of point (especially in a game 7)

The perfect harmony between passing and facilitating was Kobe 2007-2010. That Kobe put it all together in terms of being a leader who could make his teammates better. I feel like folks actually overlook this era Kobe

 

[pums]

what that doesn't even make sense.

The only gut that gets criticized for shooting too much and losing and not shooting enough and losing when both clearly have bared out bad results.

sounds like the type of arguments against LeBron

 

[MVP]

There's a difference between chucking and passing to prove some kind of point (especially in a game 7)

The perfect harmony between passing and facilitating was Kobe 2007-2010. That Kobe put it all together in terms of being a leader who could make his teammates better

Since you have the psychoanalysis down pat, exactly what point was he trying to prove by losing a Game 7? And why didn't he do it earlier, coming into that series PHX was by far and away the better team so why even try?

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Since you have the psychoanalysis down pat, exactly what point was he trying to prove by losing a Game 7? And why didn't he do it earlier, coming into that series PHX was by far and away the better team so why even try?

Whenever you discuss Kobe, why do you get so pissy 

 your underhanded slights always have me 

I'm not even sure what you're asking here

 

[MVP]

sounds like the type of arguments against LeBron

Not true, the criticisms of Bron come from his own stupid mouth. Mr. if I'm shooting 40 times in getting 70 of dem thangs. Nah, you're actually pretty terrible as a volume scorer B.

 

[rolaholic]

Who remembers Bean trying to force a trade to the Bulls during the Smush era?

Back in '06 or '07 iirc

 

[MVP]

Whenever you discuss Kobe, why do you get so pissy   your underhanded slights always have me 

I'm not even sure what you're asking here

You said he was trying to prove a point in the 2nd half of game 7. I would like to know what point that was and why did it take until the last game of the series to do so.

I genuinely want to know because I remember a Game where that was the case from the get go against the Kings when they were wearing the blue throwbacks.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

You said he was trying to prove a point in the 2nd half of game 7. U would like to know what point that was and why did it take until the last game of the series to do so.

I genuinely want to know because I remember a Game where that was the case from the get go against the Kings when they were wearing the blue throwbacks.

I wasn't wondering why he waited until the last game. I am saying he gave up, quit in the second half

 

[reboot24]

how is it someones fault if u have 5

 

[QU!K]

Who remembers Bean trying to force a trade to the Bulls during the Smush era?

Back in '06 or '07 iirc

Also the Clippers