THE 2015 NBA PRE SEASON THREAD: BEST WISHES TO LAMAR ODOM

Who will represent the Western Conference in the NBA Finals?

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people dont value guys like reggie and allen that can play off the ball i guess. its all about one on one play and crossovers. 
this is so overstated. 

philly was a top 4 nba defensive in the nba that year while offensively middle of the pack. i guess iverson carried them on the defensive end.? 

It's more of you overvaluing them tbh this isn't about style of play or ppl not valuing players that play off the ball.

When you look at longevity plus production those guys just don't match up with Allen. Come on man, in Allen's 12th year in the league he was still at 31 & 7.

Who else is doing that? Kobe? I mean let's be real here.
 
Reggie Miller once again getting the benefit of playing in the 90s. If anyone was overrated it was him.

one of the top 5 greatest shooters of all time
That he was....and relatively average at everything else. He's a legend not because he was a great overall player but he excelled in one category. But if we wanna rank him based on his actual ability he honestly doesn't rank that high IMO.

And Ray > Reggie to me as well.
 
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It's more of you overvaluing them tbh this isn't about style of play or ppl not valuing players that play off the ball.

When you look at longevity plus production those guys just don't match up with Allen. Come on man, in Allen's 12th year in the league he was still at 31 & 7.

Who else is doing that? Kobe? I mean let's be real here.
i hate the narrative that he carried bums when they were a top defensive squad. 

like i said. accolades doesnt mean better player. nash has two mvps and id be damned if i said he was an overrall better player then chris paul .lot  more to basketball then just putting the ball in the basket. melo one of the best scorers in the league since hes been in it , doesnt mean he isnt overrated.  id argue there is quite a few players who havent averaged as many points that are better then him. 
 
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people dont value guys like reggie and allen that can play off the ball i guess. its all about one on one play and crossovers. 
this is so overstated and not true.

philly was a top 4 nba team. playing with bums gets you to be a top defensive squad.
  defensively in the nba that year while offensively middle of the pack. i guess iverson carried them to the finals on the defensive end right? 

Name the defenders? Who had a great defensive year or was lockdown that you recall playing for the 76ers?

Without looking it up, I can't recall 1 player. 4 random dudes who played no offense came together to play D when that's all they could do. If one of those defenders goes down the 76ers remain good. Take Iverson off most of those teams and you have potentially the worse offensive team in NBA history.

Those 76ers teams without Iverson would make the current Bulls without Rose who can't score look like GS.
 
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iverson great  but inefficient scorer.  not much else. 

Underrated playmaker and defender. Also, you can't nakedly say "inefficient scorer." 30 a night on 40% isn't the same as say 21 a night on 42%. So while he was a tad bit inefficient, he scored a lot of points which negates the inefficiency To a degree. Then you have to factor in longevity too.

The irony in you saying Allen was an inefficient scorer and not much else but saying TMac was better :lol:
 
i went to go see that squad live against the clippers,eric snow aaron mckie , raja bell , tyrone hill , dikembe , george lynch. theo ratliff, thats off the top of my head. while may not be individually lockdown defenders they had one of the best defenses in the L that year. look it up bro. top defense , medicore offense? yet iverson carried them to the finals. they had better defense then offense. offensively he was the one that carried him but that d is what got them there. 

that makes no sense. 
 
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Both sides of this Iverson discussion 
mean.gif
 painful to read 
 
i went to go see that squad live against the clippers,eric snow aaron mckie , raja bell , tyrone hill , dikembe , george lynch. theo ratliff, thats off the top of my head. while may not be individually lockdown defenders they had one of the best defenses in the L that year. look it up bro. top defense , medicore offense? yet iverson carried them to the finals. they had better defense then offense. offensively he was the one that carried him but that d is what got them there. 
that makes no sense. 

Played at a below average pace, which skewed how good they were defensively to a degree
 
 
 
Reggie Miller once again getting the benefit of playing in the 90s. If anyone was overrated it was him.
one of the top 5 greatest shooters of all time
That he was....and relatively average at everything else. He's a legend not because he was a great overall player but he excelled in one category. But if we wanna rank him based on his actual ability he honestly doesn't rank that high IMO.

And Ray > Reggie to me as well.
Ray over Reggie is a sentiment I cannot co-sign, but I can't argue with anything else you said.

I just never really saw him as overrated. Everyone knows what he was. No one is out here claiming he was something he wasn't.
 
iverson great  but inefficient scorer.  not much else. 
When you're the only legitimate scoring option on your team you can't be overly concerned with percentages as long as you make shots and get results. Which he did.
 
mutombo was number one rebounder in the playoffs that year, offensively and defensively. and had almost double the blocked shots of the 2nd closest player yet he was washed up. thats skewed by slow place right. okay my dudes.  its funny the way dudes try to spin history. 
 
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mutombo was number one rebounder in the playoffs that year, offensively and defensively. and had almost double the blocked shots of the 2nd closest player yet he was washed up. thats skewed by slow place right. okay my dudes.  its funny the way dudes try to spin history. 

You can't brag about the D and ignore how bad they were on offense. Then bash Iverson for not being efficient. Those teams without Iverson were god awful offensively. Well below average.
 
You can't brag about the D and ignore how bad they were on offense. Then bash Iverson for not being efficient. Those teams without Iverson were god awful offensively. Well below average.
even with iverson they were average. never said they werent bad on offense. they were middle of the pack with a.i. ,i said the d is what got them to the finals. without all those blocked shots and boards , do they even get to the finals? i already stated he carried them offensively. they were trash offensively but to call them bums when they had a d rated that high with the number one rebounder and shot blocker in all the playoffs is wrong. more to basketball then just putting the ball in the basket and they proved that. they just  had to play the west and whoever came out the west was going to smash them either way. 

  somebody had to rebound all of a.i. missed shots. 
 
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Pace is irrelevant, the Sixers had a top 5 defense after pace is already accounted for. Mutombo was one of the best defensive players in the league at the time.
 
Pace is irrelevant, the Sixers had a top 5 defense after pace is already accounted for. Mutombo was one of the best defensive players in the league at the time.
mutombo had 72 blocked shots in the playoffs. 2nd best was shaq with 38. he also out rebounded everybody by alot. but he was washed.

a.i. carried them by himself even though they were a middle of the pack offense and the d is what got them to the finals. 
 
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I think it's very easy to see what type of player AI was.  There shouldn't be any hesitation either.  Agreed that he was their primary offense, but trying to say he was the one that 'carried' them is unfair and misleading.  He was obviously their main guy and the team was obviously built around him.  Playing the 'what if he was out' makes no sense, because the team was 'built' around him.  

...

Of course he carried them, he shot the ball a trillion times.  There was no time for him to post up, no time for him to setup or waltz.  He used his quickness, his speed, his agility to jack shots.  So yeah, he carried them alright, but only because he was their primary shooter and only because the team was built that way, and I guess it worked out well that 'one' year when they made it to the finals.
 
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even with iverson they were average. never said they werent bad on offense. they were middle of the pack with a.i. ,i said the d is what got them to the finals. without all those blocked shots and boards , do they even get to the finals? i already stated he carried them offensively. they were trash offensively but to call them bums when they had a d rated that high with the number one rebounder and shot blocker in all the playoffs is wrong. more to basketball then just putting the ball in the basket and they proved that. they just  had to play the west and whoever came out the west it was going to lights out either way. 
  somebody had to rebound all of a.i. missed shots. 

Even if I give you Mutombo. None of those other players went on to be remembered for D. Larry Hughes led the league in steals as a Wizard once. A middle of the league offensive team being carried by one man shows just how bad offensively his teammates were.

All the other really good guards of his era out East had better teams. Most never made the Finals. Kidd is the only one I can think of. I don't put Billups in the Kidd/Iverson class FYI.
 
Everyone is overrated and underrated on the Internet. Everyone. It's one big episode of first take.

The fact is...Allen Iverson is a legend and undoubtedly a first ballot hall of famer. Everything else is irrelevant.
 
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Even if I give you Mutombo. None of those other players went on to be remembered for D
Raja Bell was for sure, Eric Snow as well

Iverson still one of the best to lace them up

It's strange to see the lengths folks will go to disparage someone for no reason or try to split hairs with comparing the greats
 
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Even if I give you Mutombo. None of those other players went on to be remembered for D. Larry Hughes led the league in steals as a Wizard once. A middle of the league offensive team being carried by one man shows just how bad offensively his teammates were.

All the other really good guards of his era out East had better teams. Most never made the Finals. Kidd is the only one I can think of. I don't put Billups in the Kidd/Iverson class FYI.
he made the finals once bro and it was at a time when the east was trash. we say the east is trash nowadays but it could be considered a juggernaut compared to those days.

they were carried by they defense. top d middle of the pack O , but the offense is what got them there. thats backwards. if you have a top offense and no defense you going to say , 

that team was carried by they defense? cmon man. 
 
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