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THE 2015 NBA PRE SEASON THREAD: BEST WISHES TO LAMAR ODOM
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lawdog1
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Conley isn't better than Kyrie, he's overratted as a defender and Kyrie's offense is so much more elite that the gap between them on that side doesn't matter.
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*gathers OMAF and other notes to prepare for lengthy argument*
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There isn't going to be a lengthy argument. Conley is what he is. He's the western conference Kyle Lowry.
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What makes him overrated as a defender?
He had one down year last season as a defender, which was more so due to his injuries and he carried a larger scoring load as well. He's still one of the better on ball defenders at his position when healthy.And please....this guy still doesn't have any help on the perimeter and still manages to be the difference in the Grizz being a top 5 team in the West compared to not even making the playoffs. I've seen how well Cleveland's offense runs with Kryie running the show. Iso city. With the list of duties a PG carries, Kyrie is great at the one thing most PG's are not necessarily required to do. Scoring. Conley is better at everything else.
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It's subjective.
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Kyrie's elite offense with that sky high usage rate.
I don't think Conley is underrated anymore, however, I think his offensive production is underappreciated when comparing him to his peers considering who he plays with and his role.
I don't think Conley is underrated anymore, however, I think his offensive production is underappreciated when comparing him to his peers considering who he plays with and his role.
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29th in the league is sky high
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29th in the league is sky high
Comparing his career average being 28%, I'll say that's pretty damn high
.This explains it perfectly.
People take this as him "not being better" or as him "not being able to do compete at the higher level"
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All those top five finishes for the Grizz.
Not a single WCF victory.
Not a single WCF victory.
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What makes him overrated as a defender?
And please....this guy still doesn't have any help on the perimeter and still manages to be the difference in the Grizz being a top 5 team in the West compared to not even making the playoffs. I've seen how well Cleveland's offense runs with Kryie running the show. Iso city. With the list of duties a PG carries, Kyrie is great at the one thing most PG's are not necessarily required to do. Scoring. Conley is better at everything else.
What makes him overrated as a defender?
And please....this guy still doesn't have any help on the perimeter and still manages to be the difference in the Grizz being a top 5 team in the West compared to not even making the playoffs. I've seen how well Cleveland's offense runs with Kryie running the show. Iso city. With the list of duties a PG carries, Kyrie is great at the one thing most PG's are not necessarily required to do. Scoring. Conley is better at everything else.
Conley isn't better at everything else though and he was terrible as a defender last season even when he was healthy, even worse than Kyrie who had injury problems as well.
Kyrie is better in the pick and roll, better shooter and its not even close in isolation since he's best in the league. He also had a higher assist % than Conley before Bron got there, so what exactly does he do better than Kyrie?
Idk where you guys get this myth that's the pg doesn't have to score, it's a new game look at Steph.
Conley isn't an elite shooter that can stretch an offense out like Kyrie, that effect as way more valuable than you give it credit for.
I bet if you put Kyrie on the Grizz in that defensive scheme they are a better team with him just because he would provide that gravity.
Kyrie is the quintessential PG going forward, he doesn't need to be the primary playmaker with Lebron out there but thats just because of team construction not because he couldn't.
He's also 5 years younger than Conley and has been better at every age, I don't even know how this is an argument.
I got love for Conley and his game but any GM who would take him over Kyrie should be fired.
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this could be said for another pg that is rated above himAll those top five finishes for the Grizz.
Not a single WCF victory.
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Steph Curry is a playmaker and runs that team. Unless you're talking about elite shooting from guys under 6'4", him and Kyrie should never be mentioned together.
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There's quantitive evidence that says Kyrie is better though.
Are we ranking who's actually best or preference? Because then I could understand.
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Kyrie is better in the pick based on what? His ability to score out of it or making the best decision to pass, attack or shoot? Conley may not be the best pick and roll scorer in the league, but he's definitely one of the better PG's in terms of making the correct decision in the pick and roll. Conley/Gasol pick n roll was one of the most effective and probably one of the more difficult things to stop last season when the team was in tune and healthy. Everyone probably saw this in the few games against Portland in the playoffs, despite playing a weaker defensive team. More evidence would show within the regular season as well.
Conley isn't an elite shooter because he's not Curry? He shot 38% from 3 on 4 attempts a game in a slow paced offense. You're talking as if he's Rondo or somethinig
. He's a very good shooter and probably the most consistent shooter on that team. If you take Conley off the Grizz and add Kyrie, then you lose the one player that's capable of running that team. Kyrie will provide the scoring and shooting. I would like to see how well Kyrie performs with Tony Allen and Jeff Green as his 2 perimeter guys and he's forced into operating in halfcourt sets as the primary passer. What's Kyrie's Ast/TO ratio? Conley lats season had a 2.4 assist to turnover ratio and averaged 8.1 assists per 48 mins compared Kyrie's 2.09 and 6.8.
I like Kyrie as a player, but when conversations usually ensue about Conley as it relates to guys like Kyrie and Lillard, its always based on what the box score says. I think you would be shocked at the amount of coaches who would take Conley over both players and you probably get the elite coaches choosing Mike. Conley has proven he can do what's ask of him to do as a player, he rarely makes mistakes and he gives the team what it needs. Very few PG's in the NBA today are capable of even doing that.
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Kyrie is better in the pick based on what? His ability to score out of it or making the best decision to pass, attack or shoot? Conley may not be the best pick and roll scorer in the league, but he's definitely one of the better PG's in terms of making the correct decision in the pick and roll. Conley/Gasol pick n roll was one of the most effective and probably one of the more difficult things to stop last season when the team was in tune and healthy. Everyone probably saw this in the few games against Portland in the playoffs, despite playing a weaker defensive team. More evidence would show within the regular season as well.
Conley isn't an elite shooter because he's not Curry? He shot 38% from the field on 4 attempts a game in a slow paced offense. You're talking as if he's Rondo or somethinig
If you take Conley off the Grizz and add Kyrie, then you lose the one player that's capable of running that team. Kyrie will provide the scoring and shooting. I would like to see how well Kyrie performs with Tony Allen and Jeff Green as his 2 perimeter guys and he's forced into operating in halfcourt sets as the primary passer.
Better in the pick and roll as in he produces more points whether shooting or passing.
Conley makes good decisions out of the pick and roll but if they don't lead to more points they are irrelevant.
38% on 4 attempts a game is not elite, 41% on 5 a game is though.
And yea put Kyrie next to Tony Allen and Jeff Green, he's the perfect person for that because he has no one to compete with for perimeter touches.
You speak as if it's hard to play pick and roll with Marc Gasol and dump the ball to Zbo on the block.
Gasol makes just as many plays as Conley.
Like I said he's a good player but he's not touching Kyrie on a talent level, that's not an indictment against him, Kyrie is just that good and is only getting better while Conley is what he is.
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This was through February, but I'm sure the majority of it didn't change much.
And at thinking running the Grizz offense is a piece of cake. You know better awwesome. If its that simple, you would think professional teams could shut it all down and the Grizz would playing for the lottery with the personnel they have. At some point last season, their offense was top 10 in efficiency and teams struggled to stop them. I agree that Gasol does a lot of playmaking for the Grizz as well, but he's not the man of the show.
From 2013-14 season:
And
at thinking running the Grizz offense is a piece of cake. You know better awwesome. If its that simple, you would think professional teams could shut it all down and the Grizz would playing for the lottery with the personnel they have. At some point last season, their offense was top 10 in efficiency and teams struggled to stop them. I agree that Gasol does a lot of playmaking for the Grizz as well, but he's not the man of the show.From 2013-14 season:
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I have yet to see Kyrie dictate the pace and set the tone on a regular basis like Conley does. (Not including Kyrie's explosion against the Spurs.)
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Kyrie pre-LeBron was like watching IG Dame
I don't buy that him going to Memphis is an automatic upgrade over Conley. Not sure how Irving looks with two heavy footed bigs, in a slowed down pace. If you think Conley is overrated defensively, Irving must be Laker Nash level
I don't buy that him going to Memphis is an automatic upgrade over Conley. Not sure how Irving looks with two heavy footed bigs, in a slowed down pace. If you think Conley is overrated defensively, Irving must be Laker Nash level
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Kyrie graded out as a better defender than Conley in every aspect, he's still not that good but Conley was worse, he just plays on a better defensive team.
Kyrie does his best work in the half court so I don't see how a slow pace hurts him.
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Darko 
It's a shame that he didn't stay highly motivated.
It's a shame that he didn't stay highly motivated.
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Darko
It's a shame that he didn't stay highly motivated.
I heard Darko's predraft workouts had him looking like Dirk with rim protection.
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