The NBA Draft Thread

I thought people were behind on Skal mostly to put him into consideration as best in his class. And I could easily be talked into him, but Simmons falls more in line with my type of player. So right now it's Ben and it's inherently biased.
 
The difference between Simmons being really good and being a superstar will come down to his ability to shoot. Plain and simple.
 
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Valentine has been ridiculous so far. Another second round Spartan steal?
 
Not OKB, but from reddit..

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The college basketball season is now a month old, which means it's time for our first Big Board update since the season began.

2016 NBA draft
Get ready for Ben Simmons, Skal Labissiere and the 2016 draft with analysis from Chad Ford and other ESPN experts.

Mock Draft 2.0 | Big Board 2.0
Top 10 Cs | Top 10 PFs
Top 10 SFs | Top 10 SGs
Top 10 PGs | Top 100 rankings
While scouts are still preaching patience, especially with freshmen, stronger opinions are forming on top prospects. Once we begin conference play in January, they'll get even sharper.

This is a more detailed look at the top 30 players in our Top 100. It tracks player movement and stock fluctuation, and gives you the latest intel from NBA scouts.

So here it is: Big Board 3.0.

1. Ben Simmons


Previous rank: No. 1
LSU
Freshman
Forward

Simmons is the prize of this draft. There really isn't a close second right now. His combination of size, athleticism, court vision and rebounding prowess are unique, and he's ultra productive, ranking No. 7 in the country in player efficiency rating.

Yes, his jump shot is a source of concern; he's made just 13 shots away from the rim all season and is shooting just 28.6 percent from there, according to hoop-math.com. But given all the other skills he brings to the table and a solid free throw percentage, scouts don't think it will keep him from being a star.

Simmons video

2. Brandon Ingram


Previous rank: No. 4
Duke
Freshman
Forward

Ingram bounced back from a slow start to the season in early December with a 24-point explosion against Indiana, followed by a 23-point game against Buffalo and a 26-point effort against Georgia Southern. During that three-game stretch he shot 8-for-14 from 3 and 27-for-43 (63 percent) inside the arc.

Obviously, that's a pretty small sample size; two of the three opponents were mid-majors and Indiana is a pathetic defensive team. Still, scouts get excited whenever you talk about a long, 6-10 small forward with athleticism who can shoot. Ingram needs to get stronger and continue to work on his defense, but the tools are there for him to be a star if he can keep it up.

Ingram video

3. Dragan Bender


Previous rank: No. 3
Croatia
Age: 18
Forward/center

After impressing scouts in September with exhibitions in Chicago and Brooklyn, things have quieted down for Bender. In nine Israeli league games, he is averaging just 3.6 PPG and 2.0 RPG in 11 MPG for Maccabi Tel Aviv. In Euroleague play, that number drops to 2.1 PPG and 1.4 RPG in 10 MPG.

Scouts were hoping to see him play a much bigger role. I don't think lack of playing time has hurt his stock at all, but it has kept him from climbing up a board that's wide open after Simmons.

4. Skal Labissiere


Previous rank: No. 2
Kentucky
Freshman
Center/forward

Scouts are preaching patience with Labissiere ... but it's hard to be patient. He dropped a zero-point, zero-rebound game in a win against Arizona State on Saturday and was a complete nonfactor on both ends of the floor. His lack of strength has hurt him to the point where there's been only one game in which which he's grabbed more than five rebounds. But there's still reason to have hope.

Head coach John Calipari is trying to toughen up Labissiere by asking him to play in the post. He's much more comfortable on the perimeter, though (he's shooting 47.6 percent from there and 63 percent of all his shots have been jumpers), and projects as a potential stretch-4 in the NBA. We haven't seen his 3-point shot, but he has one. However, if this keeps up through the entire season, his stock could plummet. He turns 20 in March. That's old for a player with such little production.

5. Jaylen Brown


Previous rank: No. 5
Cal
Freshman
Forward

Brown continues to look the part athletically, but the production has been shaky so far. He's playing out of position at power forward, which explains some of the problem, but it's his shot that has scouts wringing their hands.

He's shooting just 15 percent on his 2-point jumpers this season and just 25 percent from 3.

6. Henry Ellenson


Previous rank: No. 7
Marquette
Freshman
Forward/center

Scouts continue to warm on Ellenson to the point that he might be a hot month away from surpassing both Brown and Labissiere on our board.

He's big, mobile, rebounds and can really shoot the basketball. His 3-point shot hasn't really been falling, but he's shooting a red-hot 51 percent on 2-point jumpers. He's the prototypical stretch-4 in the new NBA.

7. Jakob Poeltl


Previous rank: No. 12
Utah
Sophomore
Center

It looks like Poeltl made a great decision to go back to Utah for his sophomore season. He got stronger over the summer and it's paid off big time on the court. He's averaging 20 PPG and 10 RPG on 70 percent shooting from the field, adding in 2.2 blocks per game -- and he leads the NCAA in PER at 39.11.

While the league doesn't obsess over big men they way it once did, Poeltl has a lot of fans in the NBA ranks at the moment.

8. Jamal Murray


Previous rank: No. 6
Kentucky
Freshman
Guard

A little bit of that shine Murray picked up over the Nike Hoop Summit and FIBA Americas tournament seems to be wearing off. He is the Wildcats' leading scorer, but turnovers and poor shooting have haunted him. And there's still a raging debate among scouts about whether he's a 1 or a 2.

Still, Murray's talent keeps him strongly in the top 10.

Murray video

9. Kris Dunn


Previous rank: No. 13
Providence
Junior
Guard

Most of the scouts I've spoken with love Dunn, and there are plenty of reasons why. He's an athletic assist machine averaging a whopping 3.4 steals per game. But he's actually regressed in a key area this season: His 3-point shooting is down to just 23 percent.

Scouts want to see major improvement going forward, and with just a couple months before he turns 22, I'm not sure Dunn's got much of a ceiling left.

10. Furkan Korkmaz


Previous rank: No. 11
Turkey
Age: 18
Forward

Korkmaz's minutes off the bench have been slipping. He's averaging just 2.6 PPG in nine MPG for Anadoulu Efes Istanbul in the Euroleague. His numbers jump up to 6.9 PPG in the Turkish league. Nothing to wow you, with the exception of his 48 percent shooting from deep.

Without a lot of elite 2-guards in the draft, Korkmaz's value should continue to hold steady, even if his playing situation doesn't improve.

11. Ivan Rabb


Previous rank: No. 19
Cal
Freshman
Forward/center

After the top 10 are off the board, the draft drops off pretty rapidly in terms of talent. Scouts were skeptical that Rabb would be so productive so quickly, but his early returns are encouraging. He's shooting nearly 80 percent in the paint and a very impressive 50 percent on his 2-point jumpers. His rebounding rate is just a little less than Poeltl's and he's been a terrific shot-blocker early.

Teams covet mobile bigs who can defend the rim and stretch the defense, and Rabb shows early signs he can do a little of both. Scouts hope he follows Poeltl's lead and stays for another year to add strength, but if he does declare, he's looking more and more like a legitimate lottery pick.

12. Demetrius Jackson


Previous rank: No. 18
Notre Dame
Junior
Guard

While most of the early point guard discussion has centered on Murray versus Dunn, don't count out Jackson, who is having a terrific junior season. His ability to shoot at a high percentage from anywhere on the floor and some major toughness are his biggest selling points.

13. Cheick Diallo


Previous rank: No. 9
Kansas
Freshman
Forward/center

The NCAA finally gave Diallo the green light. Bill Self? Not so much.

In KU's two games that were close, Diallo played just seven minutes in each. The energy is there, but his offensive awareness is still a work in progress. Teams love his long-term potential, but right now he looks pretty far away from contributing in the NBA.

14. Caris LeVert


Previous rank: No. 23
Michigan
Senior
Guard/forward

With the exception of one horrific 1-for-13 shooting performance against SMU, LeVert has been terrific for Michigan. He's shooting the ball well, has three games with seven or more assists and has been relentless getting to the line. Seniors typically struggle to crack the lottery, but remember, LeVert is a year younger than most of the players in his class.

15. Timothe Luwawu


Previous rank: No. 28
France
Age: 20
Guard/forward

Luwawu is currently the starting small forward for Mega Vizura in the Adriatic League. He's averaging 15 PPG, 4.4 RPG and shooting 37.6 percent from 3. His defense is ahead of his offense, but if his shots keep falling, he's got a chance to crack the lottery.

16. Thomas Bryant



Previous rank: No. 16
Indiana
Freshman
Center

Bryant struggled at the Maui Invitational, and the general consensus was he was still too raw on both ends of the ball to seriously consider jumping to the NBA. However, given the dearth of top-end talent this late in the draft -- along with Bryant's scintillating 72-percent field goal percentage (nearly 90 percent of shots are at the rim) -- someone will take him on as a project and give him time to grow.

17. Jonathan Jeanne

Previous rank: N/A
France
Age: 18
Center/forward

I wrote about Jeanne in the last mock draft and the response from NBA scouts was telling -- the cat is now out of the bag. He's the young European that virtually every team hopes will slide to them. He's super thin, but his size and versatility are both coveted in the league right now. Given the lack of depth in this draft, he is a project that teams could gamble on early.

18. Wade Baldwin IV


Previous rank: No. 29
Vanderbilt
Sophomore
Guard

Baldwin continues to lure scouts with his scoring ability and court vision. He's shooting 50 percent from 3 and 61 percent at the rim, but his midrange game is still a major work in progress. Baldwin doesn't particularly wow, but he's one of the most stable point guards on the board.

19. Stephen Zimmerman



Previous rank: No. 17
UNLV
Freshman
Center

Zimmerman is selling himself as a mobile big who can face the basket and protect the rim. He's been a solid shot-blocker for UNLV, but his back-to-the-basket game still needs work and teams question his toughness right now.

20. Damian Jones


Previous rank: No. 14
Vanderbilt
Junior
Center/forward

Jones hasn't taken the big leap scouts thought he'd take this season. He's roughly the same player he was last season. His size and athleticism continue to make him an intriguing prospect, though scouts seem to be lowering their expectations on what he could be in the NBA.

21. Diamond Stone


Previous rank: No. 15
Maryland
Freshman
Center

Ten years ago, Stone probably would rank 10 spots higher on this list. He's an old-school center with a knack for scoring with his back to the basket and he's off to a very solid start for Maryland. However, with the new emphasis on bigs that stretch and protect, he's not quite as valuable.

22. Grayson Allen


Previous rank: No. 22
Duke
Sophomore
Guard

Allen has been a dominant scorer for Duke and a lights-out shooter from 3 this season. However, his one bad game against Kentucky highlighted the major concerns. He's undersized to play the 2 at the next level and his decision-making as a point guard leaves a lot to be desired. If he were two inches taller, his stock would be much higher.

23. Denzel Valentine


Previous rank: N/A
Michigan State
Senior
Forward/guard

Valentine doesn't check the normal boxes scouts are typically looking for in a wing. He lacks elite size and athleticism for the position. However, he's been a triple-double threat for the Spartans all season, and given the NBA's recent emphasis on versatility, he's drawing significant interest from scouts.

24. Zhou Qi



Previous rank: No. 21
China
Age: 19
Center

Zhou is our fifth international prospect. It's his elite size and versatile skill set that have NBA teams intrigued.

He's averaging 18.8 PPG, 10.2 RPG, 4.2 BPG while shooting 68 percent from the floor for Xinjiang this season. He's even 4-for-6 from 3 this season. He just needs to add a lot of strength to handle the rigors of the paint in the NBA.

25. Isaiah Briscoe


Previous rank: No. 25
Kentucky
Freshman
Guard

Briscoe has been a strong defender for Kentucky and has been aggressive getting to the basket. With Tyler Ulis out, he's shown signs of being able to handle the point guard spot. But his poor shooting, both from 3 and the foul line (39 percent!), gives scouts pause.

26. Malik Newman


Previous rank: No. 10
Mississippi State
Freshman
Guard

Newman is off to a disappointing start for Mississippi State. Billed as a hybrid point guard with elite scoring ability coming out of high school, he's struggled to hit shots and run Mississippi State's offense so far. His numbers don't really warrant him this high, but teams still are intrigued with his talent if he figures things out.

27. Domantas Sabonis



Previous rank: No. 26
Gonzaga
Sophomore
Forward

Sabonis continues to dominate the paint as both a rebounder and low-post scorer. But his lack of elite athleticism and 3-point shot make him a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to the modern NBA power forward.

28. Carlton Bragg



Previous rank: No. 27
Kansas
Freshman
Forward

Bragg is playing just 12 minutes a night for the Jayhawks, but every time he steps onto the court, good things happen. He most likely will spend at least one more year in Lawrence, but NBA teams love versatile forwards like Bragg who thrive both inside and outside the paint.

29. Buddy Hield


Previous rank: N/A
Oklahoma
Senior
Guard

Hield has been on the NBA radar for a while, but scouts always have been concerned about his inconsistency. As a senior he's putting it all together, shooting 50 percent from 3, getting to the line six times a game (shooting 90 percent from the stripe) and scoring a career-high 22.7 PPG.

He's undersized for his position, but scouts love his moxie.

30. Isaac Haas


Previous rank: N/A
Purdue
Sophomore
Center

Haas has been incredibly efficient both as a low-post scorer (73 percent shooting at the rim) and facing the basket (57 percent shooting on 2-point jumpers). He's not an elite athlete, but at 7-2, 297 lbs. he doesn't have to be. Plus, he ranks second among all college players in PER.

Next five in
 
DX updated their mock draft; Simmons, Ingram, Bender, Dunn and Labissiere.

It's still early, but I thought it was laughable the Providence coaches were selling Dunn on being a top five pick last April. Now here we are.





 
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The duke starting 5 haircut has taken over college ball is my main takeaway from watching a couple highlights of prospects
 
pums said:
The duke starting 5 haircut has taken over college ball is my main takeaway from watching a couple highlights of prospects
Click to expand...

Basketball, football, college, high school, pro......they all have the same damn haircut now.
 
Is Duke's Brandon Ingram the NBA's next great wing?
By Chad Ford and Kevin Pelton
Print and Go Back ESPN.com: NBA [Print without images]

Tuesday, December 22, 2015
Is Duke's Brandon Ingram the NBA's next great wing?
By Chad Ford and Kevin Pelton
ESPN Staff Writers


For the past several years, ESPN Insider's Chad Ford and Kevin Pelton have simulated the kind of discussions that are taking place in front offices around the NBA -- where scouts and statistical experts break down NBA prospects using their "eyes, ears and numbers."

Is Brandon Ingram the best prospect after Ben Simmons?

Chad Ford: Ben Simmons has been No. 1 on my Big Board since it debuted in July. I'll be shocked if he doesn't stay there through draft night in 2016.

But figuring out who will be the No. 2 pick in the draft has proven more challenging. There are several players with the physical upside or skill set to be considered No. 2.

A little more than a month into the college season, NBA scouts seem to be leaning toward Duke's Brandon Ingram as the second-best prospect in the draft. I moved him to No. 2 on Big Board 3.0 on Friday.
2016 NBA draft

Get ready for Ben Simmons, Skal Labissiere and the 2016 draft with analysis from Chad Ford and other ESPN experts.

Mock Draft 2.0 | Big Board 3.0
Top 10 Cs | Top 10 PFs
Top 10 SFs | Top 10 SGs
Top 10 PGs | Top 100 rankings
Where does he stand on your statistical Big Board, Kevin?

Kevin Pelton: In part because of his move to No. 2 on your Big Board, Ingram is also second in my consensus projections that factor in subjective rankings.

Purely in terms of the statistical projection, Ingram ranks seventh, but that's partially because freshmen tend to have more conservative projections early in the season as I regress their stats to the mean. For example, Simmons isn't yet No. 1 in the statistical projections despite being far and away the top prospect when I remove the regression factor.

So I'd say so far Ingram's numbers agree with what scouts are seeing from him. Now what is that exactly, Chad?

What are Ingram's strengths?

Ford: There are a couple of things that scouts love about Ingram.

First, he has elite size for his position. Ingram stands 6-foot-10 as a perimeter player with a crazy 7-foot-3 wingspan. His length makes him especially intriguing as it lets him get off his shot against anyone, allows for him to be more creative finishing at the basket and makes him a menace on defense -- both in passing lanes and protecting the rim.

Second, Ingram has the potential to become a good shooter for a player his size. He's shooting nearly 49 percent on his 2-point jumpers, according to Hoop-Math.com, and 36 percent from 3-point range. If you subtract a pretty slow start for Ingram as he adjusted to his role at Duke and focus on his last five games, he looks even better.

What do the numbers say are his strengths, Kevin?

Pelton: Ingram's wingspan certainly stands out statistically as well. At this point, probably his best attribute is his combination of steal and block rates. He had three of each Monday and is now averaging 2.2 blocks and 2.0 steals per 40 minutes. That kind of combo usually translates into a quality NBA defender.

Ingram's other biggest strength might not be found anywhere on the box score -- his age. Most of the nation's top freshmen, including Simmons, are already 19. Ingram won't turn 19 until next September, making him the youngest prospect ranked in your top 50.

Given the importance of age in projecting future development, that's a huge plus in Ingram's favor.

Brandon Ingram
Brandon Ingram's youth is one of his biggest strengths, but it also makes him a bigger question mark.

What are Ingram's weaknesses?

Ford: And his age gives him a few drawbacks as well. Ingram's body looks like it's 18. He's painfully thin. He put on 20 pounds since he got to Duke and he's still weighing in at less than 200 pounds. His lack of strength affects his ability to get much done in the post offensively, hurts his rebounding numbers and means he can get bullied by stronger players on both sides of the ball.

One other concern for me is his free-throw shooting. Though pegged as a good-to-very-good shooter by scouts, he's shooting just 60 percent from the line. That number is worth watching going forward. What do the stats say about his weaknesses right now, Kevin?

Pelton: Spot on, Chad.

My biggest concern at this point would be Ingram's defensive rebounding. While he has been a presence on the offensive glass, Ingram is pulling down 12.1 percent of available defensive rebounds, which is below average for an NCAA small forward -- let alone an NBA-bound one. Playing at the top when the Blue Devils zone may be a factor in that.

As for foul shooting, as we discussed last year, it's a slightly better predictor of NBA 3-point percentage than college 3-point shooting.

That's playing out with another Duke forward, Justise Winslow. He hit 42 percent of his 3s from the college line, but his 64 percent foul shooting suggested that overstated his true ability. And indeed Winslow is shooting just 26.5 percent beyond the arc in the NBA this season.

So Ingram's free throw percentage should be something of a concern.

Ingram the next KD? PG? Giannis?

Ford: Comps are always especially difficult when you talk about players at the top of the Big Board.

At the top end of Ingram's potential, I've heard scouts compare him to a young Kevin Durant and Paul George. Both were skinny, long, athletic forwards with jump shots.

I see the similarities in style and skill, but it might be a bit optimistic to compare an 18-year-old to a pair of NBA MVP candidates. But in terms of his traits as an 18-year-old, the George comp isn't a bad one.

On the bottom end, I hear Tayshaun Prince a lot. Prince has had a solid NBA career, but he doesn't exactly scream No. 2 pick. What do the stats say?

Pelton: George does come up as one of Ingram's top four comps by my SCHOENE projection system, along with Luol Deng, Otto Porter and Khris Middleton as the closest match.

Watching Ingram play, however, another name comes to mind -- Giannis Antetokounmpo of the Milwaukee Bucks, who isn't a potential SCHOENE match because he didn't play college basketball. Like Antetokounmpo at the start of his NBA career, Ingram is relying heavily on his athleticism and wingspan with the potential to become a star as he builds his skills around those tools.

Ingram's NBA projections from my system compare closely to what the Greek Freak did as a rookie at age 19:

Antetokounmpo and Ingram

Player 2P% 3P% FT% Reb% Stl% Blk%
Antetokounmpo .440 .347 .683 10.4 1.6 2.6
Ingram (projected) .459 .343 .662 8.6 1.8 1.7
Ford: I like the Antetokounmpo comp, Kevin. Similar body type and athleticism. Giannis had a little better frame and was a better ball handler and playmaker, but Ingram is probably a little better shooter. If he's George or Giannis in four years, then I think he's worthy of the No. 2 pick.
 
Wait...what? Did that article really say Ingram put on 20 pounds at Duke and is still under 200? You telling me this ***** was 6'9 and in the 160s?
 
pretty tony said:
Wait...what? Did that article really say Ingram put on 20 pounds at Duke and is still under 200? You telling me this ***** was 6'9 and in the 160s?
Click to expand...
Definition of frail :x ....good to see he put on some weight in a few months tho , he should be over 200 in no time :lol:
 
pretty tony said:
Wait...what? Did that article really say Ingram put on 20 pounds at Duke and is still under 200? You telling me this ***** was 6'9 and in the 160s?
Click to expand...

complete lie made up by duke training staff that chad ford bought.:lol:

weighed 196 at hoop summit before duke.
 
Yeah, for these sort of athletes you can't just put on 20lbs over a summer :lol:
 
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