The NBA Draft Thread

I don't know if all of those are valid. It's not like he doesn't have the ability to do it, he just didn't have to or was required to do so at UCLA. Kinda like Ben Simmons last year, he wasn't really forced to do anything else other than what he was great at. Lonzo is a good enough athlete with proper tutelage to be a really effective starter.
 
He has a very high IQ and a pass first mentality i'll give him that. Way too many weaknesses though.
 
From the numbers I was looking at ball is a significantly better shooter than fultz. Not saying he's a better prospect but there are a couple tangible things ball has the advantage in
Definitely! That's why I have Ball as the #2 PG off my board

Been harping on it, but if he can improve his handle that would open up his game so much more. Even without the elite foot speed if he could better navigate and get into the paint... The roof is the ceiling 
 
Last edited:
I don't know if all of those are valid. It's not like he doesn't have the ability to do it, he just didn't have to or was required to do so at UCLA. Kinda like Ben Simmons last year, he wasn't really forced to do anything else other than what he was great at. Lonzo is a good enough athlete with proper tutelage to be a really effective starter.
Literally 93% of his shots were layups or threes. That's a fact, no exaggeration.

Questions about his in-between game & right dribble pullups shouldn't be dismissed. They're legitimate question marks given everything we've seen.
 
It's legitimate concern, but again the league is trending towards that way in general. Much less emphasis on midrange and more on exclusively paint points and 3s. Don't think it's as big of a concern as you guys are making it, especially when Lonzo isn't going to need to be your primary scorer. If Fultz didn't have an in between game it'd be more of an issue.
 
Last edited:
The layups part I'd also like to know how many in the half court and not fast break or transition

With that said, Mamba is correct and I've been saying this forever, for Ball's shot mechanic criticisms, you still can't leave that man open. He's not a score first player nor should he be pegged to be one. If he can't get shots off with defenders up in his grill, it's less big a deal if he's the third scorer...
 
The only red flags I really have for Lonzo is getting his shot off going right, but developing a floater could alleviate that. There aren't that many good to great defenders at the PG position so him getting by guys isn't that much of a concern, he's not as slow as say D'Lo. The other a biggest is his shot mechanics over length. The rest of the stuff can be taught or a put in a system tailored to his stengths which is what should be done anyway with have a playmaker that's as special as he is.

Also he has the physical tools to be a defensive dynamo.
 
Last edited:
The only red flags I really have for Lonzo is getting his shot off going right, but developing a floater could alleviate that. There aren't that many good to great defenders at the PG position so him getting by guys isn't that much of a concern, he's not as slow as say D'Lo. The other a biggest is his shot mechanics over length. The rest of the stuff can be taught or a put in a system tailored to his stengths which is what should be done anyway with have a playmaker that's as special as he is.

Against Kentucky, every time Bam switched on him, he settled for the 25 foot jumper.

I don't know if you can teach a guy creativity off the dribble at this stage. Not saying it can't be done.
 
I disagree wholeheartedly. Kid is 19 and basically has just had only his dad telling him what to do. He already has a high basketball IQ. Get him some real teachers and he's going to flourish.
 
It's legitimate concern, but again the league is trending towards that way in general. Much less emphasis on midrange and more on exclusively paint points and 3s. Don't think it's as big of a concern as you guys are making it, especially when Lonzo isn't going to need to be your primary scorer. If Fultz didn't have an in between game it'd be more of an issue.
In theory, this is correct. However, what legit point guard in the league can't break you down off the dribble and go get you a bucket if need be? He has not shown me that he has the ability do this, and there have been several times this season where UCLA has needed this from him.
 
In theory, this is correct. However, what legit point guard in the league can't break you down off the dribble and go get you a bucket if need be? He has not shown me that he has the ability do this, and there have been several times this season where UCLA has needed this from him.

At least half the ones that are starting right now, can't do this. Several times is not a lot in the totality of a season. And again there's not that many great defensive point guards that he won't have an advantage solely due to his size coming in. He won't have to be the guy to score.
 
Last edited:
In theory, this is correct. However, what legit point guard in the league can't break you down off the dribble and go get you a bucket if need be? He has not shown me that he has the ability do this, and there have been several times this season where UCLA has needed this from him.

At least half the ones that are starting right now, can't do this. Several times is not a lot in the totality of a season. And again there's not that many great defensive point guards that he won't have an advantage solely due to his size coming in. He won't have to be the guy to score.

For the sake of arguing, half?

TJ mcconnell
Bucks PG
Rondo
Rubio

Others?
 
Last edited:
It's legitimate concern, but again the league is trending towards that way in general. Much less emphasis on midrange and more on exclusively paint points and 3s. Don't think it's as big of a concern as you guys are making it, especially when Lonzo isn't going to need to be your primary scorer. If Fultz didn't have an in between game it'd be more of an issue.
I mean the only (good) lead guards who shun that area are Harden Steph & Dame. The only offenses that largely ignore that area is.... Houston. Being a threat from every spot on the floor is kinda important.

Not only that, meant to add this to the last post, but almost 75% of his threes were assisted.

So his jumper distribution was severeley unbalanced, and the vast majority of those jumpers were assisted.

And he hasn't played in pnr for an extended period at any point in his life.

He just can't be the first lead-guard I take if everyone is still available.
 
For the sake of arguing, half?

TJ mcconnell
Bucks PG
Rondo

Others?

The ones who can:
Kyrie
Steph
Russ
Beard
Wall
Dame
CP0
IT2
Lowry
Kemba
Conley
Dragic
Bledsoe
Dennis

The ones that I can name off the top of my head. And are ya'll saying Lonzo has never broken down anyone off the dribble before? Or just that he didn't do it with frequency against UK. Cause I feel like that is what's being said here. Those guys I listed can do it but with varying frequencies and again some still look to pass after breaking down their man.
 
The ones that I can name off the top of my head. And are ya'll saying Lonzo has never broken down anyone off the dribble before? Or just that he didn't do it with frequency against UK. Cause I feel like that is what's being said here. Those guys I listed can do it but with varying frequencies and again some still look to pass after breaking down their man.
I haven't seen him to do this on any kind of consistent basis whatsoever, and I probably watched 3/4 of his games. 75% of his 3s came in catch and shoot situations and the majority of his 2s were layups/dunks in transition or backdoor cuts.
 
Look at the players that he has broken down off the dribble. They're a bunch of trash college players who won't even sniff an overseas job yet alone an NBA one.

There is no zone in the NBA. How are you a PG with no go to moves or the ability to break down a man to man defense. I dont get it.
 
Last edited:
John Wall lacks dribble moves and "shakies".....but lucky for him.....he's faster than everyone. So he breaks the defense with his speed. Lonzo is quick, and has a long stride....but I've yet to see him break or bend the defense.

It's hard to learn how to break your man off the bounce. That's something that's really innate. Watching the Wizards on a daily basis....you can see Wall get stuck in the half court when he can't get past his man....and settle into a predictable right to left cross....that ends in a contested long two.

I'm really not worried about Lonzo though. Kid just knows how to play. I'm fully confident he'll figure it out.
 
Look at the players that he has broken down off the dribble. They're a bunch of trash college players who won't even sniff an overseas job yet alone an NBA one.

There is no zone in the NBA. How are you a PG with no go to moves or the ability to break down a man to man defense. I dont get it.

D'Lo can do it at times. And he's a subpar athlete. Again where are all these great defenders he's going up against that this will be an issue? You got CP3, Rubio, Beverly, Wall. Everybody else is pretty much food in 1 on 1. Hell Fox comes in and he's maybe a top 5 defender from jump.

Breaking your man down becomes important if you're looked at being the number 1 scoring option. Pretty much anywhere Ball gets drafted that's not going to be the case. And I'll keep harping on this has he NEVER done it before or just not as much as y'all would like him to.
 
Last edited:
Plenty of pass first PGs break down the defense, are great in the pick and roll, or are great finishers around the rim.

I like the kid's attitude. I want him to succeed, but he's really not good at any of that.
 
This discussion makes me a firmer believer in a D'Lo-Ball pairing (offensively anyways), if the Lakers are given the opportunity and are patient enough.
 
Last edited:
Or maybe I should ask it this way. How many dudes in the league 1 on 1 at the PG position are going to be able to stop him from getting to his spots on the floor where he's comfortable? Cause ultimately that's all that matters.
 
I said it before but Lonzo in Philly is the perfect match. He fills a need and they don't need him to do anything he can't do.

I could see it making our offense extremely entertaining and the best passing team in the league between him, Simmons and Dario but Lonzo's red flags scare me more than any prospect at the top of the draft
 
Ball doesn't have the greatest "quicks" but if he can go north-south in an open court, good things will ensue for his team. His vision, anticipation and decision making is just too good. If he can be paired with a guard that can handle the offense (D'Lo), I think a lot of half court offensive load pressure will be alleviated.
 
Back
Top Bottom