RIP New York Hip-Hop? (Need Some Feedback)

Spouting his multiplatinum "pay style" over a funkdafied backdrop, Todd Shaw spoke volumes for a West Coast rap community that, way back in the B.C. (before 'Chronic') age, grew sick and tired of trying to earn respect in the towering concrete jungle that was rap's birthplace. There's a new attitude out West. You can almost hear it in Too Short's simple dope-fiend bass line: Who really cares whether our records sell in New York? They sell everywhere else -Atlanta, Houston, Detroit, Cleveland- all them places where Ns really buy records instead of snatchin' up a bootleg. Let them fools make Walkmen beats for the subway; my **** is booms for people who ain't got no train. Laugh all you want, but one day the West Coast is going to rule hip-hop.
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Los Angeles has its own copyrighted style: hard thump bass with balmy, cursive melodies on top to level sound. If New York makes beats for the heads, L.A. is strictly for that ***. That's the one reason West now outsells the East: The grooves are better suited to the wide-open spaces of the South and Midwest, as opposed to the claustrophobic beat collages emanating from - Queensbridge,
Bushwick, and Staten Island-to say nothing of Roxbury and West Philly. On a linguistic level, New York has always been it's own universe. Any person not from the tri-state is considered "country" an attitude that leaves the rest of the country feeling left out.
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New Yorkers will give you a million and one reasons why the East is artistically superior. They'll tell you the West leads on SoundScan charts only because, as New York Times theorized, "it's violence-filled lyrics and danceable melodies make is accessible to the casual listener" But the truth is much more complex.

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Master Zik said:

I'll say it again Nay, if you're right and NY simply no longer has talented young artists on the come up then it truly is RIP.

There's nothing you can do with the problem of none of these ****** are talented. You can't go out and create a talented artist. You can manufacture a movement and try to live off w/e that person(s) learn skill wise but if they talentless and don't work hard it's like using one orange to quench the thirst of millions. Aint happening.

You literally gonna have to wait for the next generation and hope there's a huge improvement.

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Trill Nimley said:

If the 3 biggest (New-er rappers) are Kendrick, Drake and Cole (that's according to sales) can we REALLY say all the hip-hop fans want is party music? Kendrick and Cole are seen as pseudo conscious and Drake is more or less a emo rapper. Fans want party music when they're partying, that's ALWAYS been the case within hip-hop. But what about the other 4-5 days of the week?

And creatively, musically and culturally speaking, the west coast RULES hip-hop.

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SkurrtSkurrt29 said:

I feel like NY dudes use that party music excuse to downplay the fact that their region is subpar at putting out music in this day and age. It's like saying NY puts out "real rap" while everybody else is making turn up music so that's why they get recognition over them. When that couldn't be further from the truth.

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SkurrtSkurrt29 said:

And you're fooling yourself if you think the West Coast never ran rap music at any point in time.

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Trill Nimley said:

If the 3 biggest (New-er rappers) are Kendrick, Drake and Cole (that's according to sales) can we REALLY say all the hip-hop fans want is party music? Kendrick and Cole are seen as pseudo conscious and Drake is more or less a emo rapper. Fans want party music when they're partying, that's ALWAYS been the case within hip-hop. But what about the other 4-5 days of the week?

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Trill Nimley said:

And creatively, musically and culturally speaking, the west coast RULES hip-hop.

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Trill Nimley said:

No region will dominate hip-hop ever again?

So what has the south been doin for the better part of the past 17 years? Cause if that's not considered domination then there has never been a dominate region in the history of the art. Cause all things considered NY reigned supreme because it was the only place making hip-hop for the first decade for the most part. The minute NWA came out NYC started looking flabby and sick.

The west is winning right now, the south has remained consistent for a decade and a half producing psuedo rap stars and expanding its sound, the Midwest is in 3rd, and competitive to an extent, NY is nowhere to be found. This is the first time in the history of the art that NY has been the worst region creatively for almost a decade.

Teenagers don't care about 80s NY legends. They barley care about the 90s guys. 50 Cent is old school to the average consumer. NY will become what Indiana is to basketball. In 20 years fans won't feel obligated to pay homage, artists barley do. NY is living in its past glory.

How does a city of 10 million go 8 years without producing a legit rap star or producer? That's like the Texas/Florida not producing a great football player.

And Fetty (who's 25) is a great example a kid from right across the river idolized Gucci Mane, instead of any NY rappers. Where as Cole (who's 30) from NC idolized NaS. The tide has turned NY will more than likely never matter again in hip-hop.

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Magic1978 said:

Trill Nimley said:

And creatively, musically and culturally speaking, the west coast RULES hip-hop.

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The south has run hip hop for nearly 20 years.

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Master Zik said:

That's not adding up. Since '95 b?

Don't get me wrong they were releasing imo some of their best music in the 90s and catching steam back in the 2000s but definitely not running ****. **** was way more open back then for a midwest dude like Nelly to thrive around '05. The mid to late 90s was still seesawing between the East and West. NYC dudes were still doing it.

I'm not sure if you're counting that whole No Limit, 504 Boys, rise of Cash Money, Trick Daddy, Mystikal did I do that turned to solo success as the south running ****. Out of that Southern batch to me Outkast and Goodie Mob were still the best doing it.

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Magic1978 said:

Master Zik said:

That's not adding up. Since '95 b?

Don't get me wrong they were releasing imo some of their best music in the 90s and catching steam back in the 2000s but definitely not running ****. **** was way more open back then for a midwest dude like Nelly to thrive around '05. The mid to late 90s was still seesawing between the East and West. NYC dudes were still doing it.

I'm not sure if you're counting that whole No Limit, 504 Boys, rise of Cash Money, Trick Daddy, Mystikal did I do that turned to solo success as the south running ****. Out of that Southern batch to me Outkast and Goodie Mob were still the best doing it.

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for nearly 20 years.

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Master Zik said:

That's still WRONG

South didn't become big until around '05. So it's more like nearly 10 years. Unless we just ignoring what the east coast and midwest were doing the entire time.

To say the south was running rap for nearly 20 years is a lie.

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Master Zik said:

That's still WRONG

South didn't become big until around '05. So it's more like nearly 10 years. Unless we just ignoring what the east coast and midwest were doing the entire time.

To say the south was running rap for nearly 20 years is a lie.

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Magic1978 said:

The south didn't become big until 2005?

Outkast and The Dungeon Family?
What about Ludacris?
What about Nelly?
Lil Jon?
Mystikal?

So you're going to totally ignore No Limit or Cash Money? Juvenile going multi platinum? Those platinum albums Snoop was putting out. How he gave Master P and No Limit credibility beyond the dudes with the corny album covers putting out albums every week.

And how can it be a lie when it is my opinion? Do you know the difference in an opinion and a lie?

In the late 90's rap started transitioning from Bad Boy/Def Jam to the south. That's why there was a Def Jam South, not a Def Jam West or Mid West. When was Def Jam South founded? 2005? No. It's not a coincidence that probably the last hot New York artist who had movements(Diplomats and 50) were the ones who fully embraced the south without compromising themselves. And Volume 3 from Jay was definitely south influenced. Not just with UGK, but by the production of Timb and Swizz. J**** My N?

I just listened to Swizz on Rap Radar say how much he was influenced by moving down to Georgia during high school and he put it in to his production

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numbah1grimey said:

Master Zik said:

That's still WRONG

South didn't become big until around '05. So it's more like nearly 10 years. Unless we just ignoring what the east coast and midwest were doing the entire time.

To say the south was running rap for nearly 20 years is a lie.

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Ummm, Geto Boyz dropped "Mind Is Playing Tricks on Me" in 1991. Outkast Dopped albums in 94, 96, 98. 2 Live Crew, mid and late 1980s. UGK, 3-6 Mafia, So So Def, Rap-A-Lot was the first independent label to garner attention. All in the early and mid 90s. No Limit and Cash Money were making waves in the late 90s. Heck, Hot Boyz were at the tunnel in the 90s/2000s. Trick Daddy dropped like 2 albums in the late 90s, early 20s. JT Money, T.I.'s first album was in 2001. Ludacris had albums in 99/2000. Arrested Developements "Tennessee" was one of the classic tracks from the 90s. Pastor Troy had a run too. South Always been relevant

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Magic1978 said:

Master Zik said:

That's still WRONG

South didn't become big until around '05. So it's more like nearly 10 years. Unless we just ignoring what the east coast and midwest were doing the entire time.

To say the south was running rap for nearly 20 years is a lie.

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The south didn't become big until 2005?

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What about Ludacris?
What about Nelly?
Lil Jon?
Mystikal?

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So you're going to totally ignore No Limit

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or Cash Money?

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Juvenile going multi platinum?

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Those platinum albums Snoop was putting out. How he gave Master P and No Limit credibility beyond the dudes with the corny album covers putting out albums every week.

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And how can it be a lie when it is my opinion? Do you know the difference in an opinion and a lie?

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Trill Nimley said:

In my opinion the south became a major in 98. To the point Def Jam was buying copies of 'Hard Knock Life' to make sure it beat out 'Aquemini' on the Billboards. That's when the tide began to turn, at that point hip-hop was as even as a playing field as it had ever been since its inception. In many ways 1998 was the most important time in hip-hop. The 2 biggest rappers from the mid 90s were dead, the other 2 (NaS and Snoop) were more or less at career crossroads. NaS hadn't had a solo album since 96, and Snoop had parted ways with Death Row and was working on his 2nd straight album with no production from Dre or writing from DOC. Not sure if we can score the point for the south with Snoop signing with No Limit, but it is quite telling. Snoop was less than 5 years removed from being the most popular rapper in the country. Off of two consecutive #1 albums, he could have signed pretty much anywhere, or built his own empire, the fact that he chose to sign with No Limit should be noted if nothing else. It's quite telling.

Not to focus to much on Snoop, just building on the dialogue in here. Snoop ended up scoring his 3rd consecutive #1 with No Limit, all with an absolutely horrible album cover (he never did the No Limit styled album artwork after that). He sold more records with his No Limit debut than he did with his final album on Death Row. For all intents and purposes, Snoop rode the southern wave, and it allowed him to expand his career. He reestablished his working relationship with Dr Dre and moved towards more traditional West coast music with his final 2 albums on No Limit.

But back to 98, if my memory serves me correct, the East coast had 3 multi platinum albums released that entire year, from 2 different artists. Both on Def Jam. The fact that Big Pun is considered one of the best MCs/artists in hip-hop history, was selling less units than Master P and Juvenile should be noted. Silk Tha Shocker was selling much more units than Cam and Nore's debut. Kane and Abel (who I've never intentionally heard a track from) were outselling the majority of middle of the pack east coast artists.

Of the Top 10 biggest 1st week sales of 98, 4 of those albums came out on No Limit. Mystical's 1st week sales were higher than Jay's for 'Hard Knock Life'. There are 3 artists from the south, Mystical, Silk and P. 3 from the East, X, Jay and Meth (not counting Beastie Boys and Lauryn Hill who are #1 and 5 on the list). In my opinion, southern album sales are more of a slow burn, where East/West albums have a 3-4 week strong run then they die out, so the #s No Limit was doin are significant. It's rare to see an album from an east coast artists not do well in its initial month of release that picks up steam later, of course there are exceptions but that's mostly been the rule when it comes to hip-hop and SoundScan.

When we use the term "Running" hip-hop, that applies to non stars/non talented artists being successful. There was a time when Mack 10 was considered a success. His song "Backyard Boogie" was a top 40 hit. That's when the west coast was beginning to fade. The south was making rap stars out of a lot of guys that nobody would consider supremely talented. More so than said supremely talented artists on both the East and West. More than half of No Limit had several artists going gold and moving over 300K copies every trip. To make that relative, Mr Serve On was selling more units than guys signed to Boot Camp Click.

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