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Some of the ultra liberalism I'm seeing here is borderline offensive.
meet Terrence Wise, a 36 year old, 2nd-generation fast-food worker
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jchambers
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Question, is 20yrs enough experience to move up the chain at McDonalds?
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personal accountability matters but what im saying is within the context of poverty how is it going to change the fact that he is poor? 5 years into working at McDonalds he could decide to work at shoprite making the same money. he could have had no kids making the same amount of money and he would still be poor. none of those things changes where hes from, or lessens the financial, mental, or socioeconomic impact that comes with being generationally poor and being from an area with high poverty rates. yall are making it sound like he looked the opportunity of becoming middle class in the face and turned around said "nah im gonna work at mcdonalds instead". without opportunity you could be the hardest worker in the world and still stay exactly where you are in this world.
i agree with this but im not too sure why this pertains to this dude and people like him and their situations.
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i agree, there is more one can do than just settling for flipping burgers, and there a lot of jobs you don't need a science degree to get paid a bit more money. but i will say free education shouldn't be something that is a pipe dream. while its not a reality in this country, it should be. it is absolutely insane that colleges can charge upwards of 70K a year for an undergraduate degree. i mean cmon, choosing the right/wrong degree aside, that is downright unethical. education shouldn't be a privilege. it should be an opportunity that is open to anyone willing to work hard and succeed, and should have to come with an almost guaranteed debt post graduation.
im all the business is business, but not with school man. that is cruel, and as a country, we are pathetic when it comes to our youth. period.
nah. not naive. i can feel you on all that. i personally believe a college education leads to better opportunity but i know that that isn't set in stone, and people have made it with just an associates.
jchambers
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I don't really disagree with you. Sometimes hard work doesn't cut it. A little luck is necessary too. There is no magical solution though. Taking money at gunpoint from others who have it, to support this dude and people like him, isn't right either.
Those links just further solidify the idea that the "bootstraps" belief is somewhat of a myth. Most people with money were born with money. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet,Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Cuban, etc.and other supposedly self made millionaire/billionaires were already born into well off families. However, it is possible to make something of yourself and to rise out of poverty, and a lot of poor people are self made scumbags, whether you would like to admit it or not. Life isn't fair. It's survival of the fittest out here. No matter how much power the government has or how much money gets thrown at the problem,this fact will still remain.
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yes.
that exactly what he said.
he didnt directly say it
his CHOICES indirectly said it for him
"if you fail to plan
you plan to fail"
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and all im saying is when crime, poverty, broken homes underfunded and understaffed schooling are whats the norm and have been the norm for generations, your chances of being a self made scum bag rise pretty damn high. Thats the standard and is a reality for so many people. only way i see things getting better is building up the area/community and providing opportunity and resources for the people there.
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A lot of people were never taught the importance of planning, because their parents weren't and their parents werent.
It's why generational poverty is so prevalent. This dude obviously made some bad choices though
But.. Not everybody has that get out and get it mentality because it's not what they know. It's not the norm to them. When you grow up struggling, it's what you know as normal.
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Revisiting this topic, I think Mr. Wise is a bad example if they're serious about raising min. wage.
I have no issue against raising min. wage as long as that raise occurs everywhere. Only question is, would the price of goods go up as well.
There is a certain group of people legitimately scared that people deemed un-american or un-worthy might have a legit chance to become educated. This dude told me it would de-value having a Bachelor degree and it isn't fair someone like him with the means to pay for their kids school. That his kid would be on equal ground with someone coming from a lesser economical situation.
I have no issue against raising min. wage as long as that raise occurs everywhere. Only question is, would the price of goods go up as well.
I spoke with a guy once about the 2 years of community college for free.
There is a certain group of people legitimately scared that people deemed un-american or un-worthy might have a legit chance to become educated. This dude told me it would de-value having a Bachelor degree and it isn't fair someone like him with the means to pay for their kids school. That his kid would be on equal ground with someone coming from a lesser economical situation.
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thank you for saying what i couldnt in so many words.A lot of people were never taught the importance of planning, because their parents weren't and their parents werent.
It's why generational poverty is so prevalent. This dude obviously made some bad choices though
But.. Not everybody has that get out and get it mentality because it's not what they know. It's not the norm to them. When you grow up struggling, it's what you know as normal.
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The point can be disputed with various "well why don't they..." statements but the truth is you can't just change mindset. Especially a generational mindset. People in poverty don't suddenly wake up one day thinking "man I really should do something about this", it's a constant thought that is inescapable.
You can hope and dream for wealth and comfort all you want but without the proper tools and motivation, you will be part of that 70% who stays in the cycle of poverty. Sad reality.
You can hope and dream for wealth and comfort all you want but without the proper tools and motivation, you will be part of that 70% who stays in the cycle of poverty. Sad reality.
jchambers
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Revisiting this topic, I think Mr. Wise is a bad example if they're serious about raising min. wage.
I have no issue against raising min. wage as long as that raise occurs everywhere. Only question is, would the price of goods go up as well.
I spoke with a guy once about the 2 years of community college for free.
There is a certain group of people legitimately scared that people deemed un-american or un-worthy might have a legit chance to become educated. This dude told me it would de-value having a Bachelor degree and it isn't fair someone like him with the means to pay for their kids school. That his kid would be on equal ground with someone coming from a lesser economical situation.
I can see where he is coming from. A Bachelors would become the new high school diploma.More people with the degree definitely lessens its value. He most likely didn't use the terms "un-american" or "unworthy" either, I doubt that he was even implying them. I have a feeling that you assumed that.
On the other hand, not everybody is going to be able to earn a Bachelors, even if the opportunity to obtain it is free. So an opportunity for everyone would hopefully put us in a world where people's situations are based on their abilities, and not the abilities of their parents/grandparents. This would seem to be a step in the right direction. But there are still going to be people who can't do the work or don't want to. We will still need people like Terrence to flip burgers. I find that most of the people who are motivated find a way to go to college anyways. There is certainly no shortage of scholarships/ government programs available.
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they were not.
i agree. 100%
its not an excuse with me though.
its only another hurdle in life, everyone has them to one degree or the other.
This dude obviously made some bad choices though
obviously, right?
atleast you're willing to speak on it.
i also agree with this 100%
and this also is no excuse with me
however this is almost exclusive to the poor. and guess what?
Deal With It.
adapt and overcome
PERIOD.
no one can help you better than you can help yourself
if thats where you end up
and choose to wallow in pity
because you didnt know or werent told?
thats not my problem
you'll get it eventually
...or not
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im no conservative
by all means feed and shelter the poor
take care of the kids
but raising your wages because you wanna have a family on $7.25/hour?
nah man.
by all means feed and shelter the poor
take care of the kids
but raising your wages because you wanna have a family on $7.25/hour?
nah man.
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if youre operating under the assumption that everyone who is poor fits that description then i guess i can see why you would think that, but i dont assume they all fit that description.
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Ohh...You must know this dude than.I can see where he is coming from. A Bachelors would become the new high school diploma.More people with the degree definitely lessens its value. He most likely didn't use the terms "un-american" or "unworthy" either, I doubt that he was even implying them. I have a feeling that you assumed that.
jchambers
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Ohh...You must know this dude than.I can see where he is coming from. A Bachelors would become the new high school diploma.More people with the degree definitely lessens its value. He most likely didn't use the terms "un-american" or "unworthy" either, I doubt that he was even implying them. I have a feeling that you assumed that.
So the dude told you that people who can't afford college educations are "un-american"?
Doubtful. It does fit a certain stereotype that is propagated around here a lot though.I'll emphasize this:
There is certainly no shortage of scholarships/ government programs available
You find me a woman or minority student in this country who is willing to do the work ,and has the grades, who can't find a government program/scholarship to pay for their Bachelors, and I'll find the Loch Ness Monster.
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So the dude told you that people who can't afford college educations are "un-american"?
I'll emphasize this:
There is certainly no shortage of scholarships/ government programs available
You find me a woman or minority student in this country who is willing to do the work ,and has the grades, who can't find a government program/scholarship to pay for their Bachelors, and I'll find the Loch Ness Monster.
Thats not what he or I said though.
Dude said it wasn't fair that people who couldn't afford it (poor) and/or un-american (immigrants, foreigners) get to go to school for free/discounted putting them on equal ground with his kids and their education in which he pays for.
He was a former co-worker and had no shortage of hatred toward Hispanics and "Indians". He was mainly referencing immigrants which is a hot topic in Texas. Dude was a bigot and the closest bigot I've ever had interaction with, he slowly revealed his true colors. Let go because of it.
Being in GA, surprised you've never encountered this type of bigotry.
jchambers
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So the dude told you that people who can't afford college educations are "un-american"?
I'll emphasize this:
There is certainly no shortage of scholarships/ government programs available
You find me a woman or minority student in this country who is willing to do the work ,and has the grades, who can't find a government program/scholarship to pay for their Bachelors, and I'll find the Loch Ness Monster.
Thats not what he or I said though.
Dude said it wasn't fair that people who couldn't afford it (poor) and/or un-american (immigrants, foreigners) get to go to school for free/discounted putting them on equal ground with his kids and their education in which he pays for.
He was a former co-worker and had no shortage of hatred toward Hispanics and "Indians". He was mainly referencing immigrants which is a hot topic in Texas. Dude was a bigot and the closest bigot I've ever had interaction with, he slowly revealed his true colors. Let go because of it.
Being in GA, surprised you've never encountered this type of bigotry.
So he was upset that others got for free what he had to work hard for? This goes back to the conversation we had about people who work hard, yet can't get the same benefits as those who don't work at all. As far as illegal immigrants getting free/discounted school/government loans, etc., that is something that I am also against completely.
I will take your word for it that the dude was a bigot, but not just based off of those specific opinions of his.
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Revisiting this topic, I think Mr. Wise is a bad example if they're serious about raising min. wage.
I have no issue against raising min. wage as long as that raise occurs everywhere. Only question is, would the price of goods go up as well.
I spoke with a guy once about the 2 years of community college for free.
There is a certain group of people legitimately scared that people deemed un-american or un-worthy might have a legit chance to become educated. This dude told me it would de-value having a Bachelor degree and it isn't fair someone like him with the means to pay for their kids school. That his kid would be on equal ground with someone coming from a lesser economical situation.
I can see where he is coming from. A Bachelors would become the new high school diploma.More people with the degree definitely lessens its value. He most likely didn't use the terms "un-american" or "unworthy" either, I doubt that he was even implying them. I have a feeling that you assumed that.
On the other hand, not everybody is going to be able to earn a Bachelors, even if the opportunity to obtain it is free. So an opportunity for everyone would hopefully put us in a world where people's situations are based on their abilities, and not the abilities of their parents/grandparents. This would seem to be a step in the right direction. But there are still going to be people who can't do the work or don't want to. We will still need people like Terrence to flip burgers. I find that most of the people who are motivated find a way to go to college anyways. There is certainly no shortage of scholarships/ government programs available.
i think if the quality of education was significantly improved from the ground up, early on, i think more people would be motivated to seek higher education, and i daresay even STEM degrees, if the math and science education was robust enough. i'd bet money on this, and i wish there was a study on this
but from my observation, most people who shy away from higher education, let alone hard degrees like engineering, is because they don't feel confident in their academic abilities and feel they will not succeed. and that's not right.
and as for bachelors vs associates...idk, but all i'd say is that there def needs to be a restriction on what degrees people can graduate in. there are way too many people graduating in ******** that won't land them a job, but universities see fit to rake in the profits from said education...which kind of defeats the purpose of getting the college education in the first place.
i will also concede that we do need lower level workers because, **** someone has to do the job. and that's all right.
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yall are making it seem like he hasn't switched jobs in 20 years and instead settled for flipping burgers.
yall are acting like he can't get financial aid and go to community college and get a better job.
yall are acting like it's our fault he decided to have 3 children with a minimum wage job.
yall are acting like its other peoples responsibility to help this man make more money
yall are acting like he didn't see the example of his mother working fast food that it wasn't the best career choice.
i don't pity laziness. i worked my *** off to get where i am.
20 years and not another job. 20 damn years. you could be a waiter and make more than he does.
i have plenty of friends with no education with better jobs than him.
jchambers
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the heck is going on in this thread