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post #45271 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakersman3000 View Post

him and harden aint going to cut it against the other elite squads regardless if howard has been balling lately.  ....

right coach and better system. okay , another excuse word to scott brooks being the reason okc couldnt win. 

Bruh take it from someone who watches the Rockets play every week. Mchale was trash...JB is better but not much. Still too much Iso ball and James dominating the shot clock. The Rockets have more talent than most teams in the league (Top 5 SG, elite defensive big man, good role players, good young talent). How many teams can say that? They can make what they have work better than what it is now. No way they should be hovering around .500
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post #45272 of 93193

Basketball is a team sport, simple.

 

Chris Paul had like 33 and 13 or something like that against Houston in a closeout game 6.

 

The Clippers losing in the playoffs falls beyond him. He has his moments where he comes up short individually, but he has a lot of moments where he comes up huge.

 

Basketball is a team sport. Chris Paul can play great, and the Clippers still not be good enough because AS A TEAM, (i.e. Matt Barnes, Reddick, the other 10 guys) collectively failed to win. 

 

I know it isn't kosher but that's actually how basketball is won and lost.

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post #45273 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea manup View Post
 

the clippers are not going to win a championship because chris paul is not good enough. simple as that.

 

put lebron, kobe, mj, magic, bird on this clippers team and they have a good shot at winning a championship

 

it's why the same players win championships almost every year

 

if chris paul is your best player you're not winning a champinship 

You can't comprehend that having a PG as your best player doesn't really put you in the best position to win a ring.

post #45274 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican View Post
 

I am saying that you can't say, "So and So didn't win a ring, it is his fault." When that team isn't even the most talented team in the league. That makes sense to you?

 

Melo and CP3 not being part of championship TEAMS is not due to their production.

 

It is due to the lack of championship talent on their TEAMS

Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying. That's why I asked you that question about LeBron 

 

He gets hate every day for his past failures, but his first 7 years in Cleveland he had much worse talent than Melo and CP3 had

post #45275 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Van Ho View Post
 

So, we going to pick and choose which teams should NOT have won a championship due to the teams he played on? Lebby should be on that list for as much hate as he gets

I am saying that you can't say, "So and So didn't win a ring, it is his fault." When that team isn't even the most talented team in the league. That makes sense to you?

 

Melo and CP3 not being part of championship TEAMS is not due to their production.

 

It is due to the lack of championship talent on their TEAMS

so everytime someone wins a championship it's because they were on a championship team?

 

jordan is just lucky because there were no other teams with championship talent in the 90s 

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post #45276 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickmaz96 View Post

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post #45277 of 93193
NBA Basketball is sport where the better team wins most of the time. The best of 7 series makes its almost impossible to hide deficences.

I can only think of handful of times when if a superstar played better his team may have won( 2004 Kobe Finals, 2011 Lebron Finals)?

So blaming the superstar for his team's shortcomings all the time is kinda silly.
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post #45278 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea manup View Post
 

the clippers are not going to win a championship because chris paul is not good enough. simple as that.

 

put lebron, kobe, mj, magic, bird on this clippers team and they have a good shot at winning a championship

 

it's why the same players win championships almost every year

 

if chris paul is your best player you're not winning a champinship 

You can't comprehend that having a PG as your best player doesn't really put you in the best position to win a ring.

i have been saying this for years now :lol

 

which is exactly why cp is overrated, he gets mentioned with all time greats when he doesnt have nearly the same impact on the game

 

because he's a pass first pg

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post #45279 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by JinKazama View Post


Bruh take it from someone who watches the Rockets play every week. Mchale was trash...JB is better but not much. Still too much Iso ball and James dominating the shot clock. The Rockets have more talent than most teams in the league (Top 5 SG, elite defensive big man, good role players, good young talent). How many teams can say that? They can make what they have work better than what it is now. No way they should be hovering around .500

there is such thing as player dna. no coach is going to make harden play differently , thats who he is . Same with the excuses that okc used to play iso ball cause of scott brooks. 

post #45280 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Van Ho View Post
 

Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying. That's why I asked you that question about LeBron 

 

He gets hate every day for his past failures, but his first 7 years in Cleveland he had much worse talent than Melo and CP3 had

I never blamed LeBron for his TEAMS not winning a ring. I think to blame LeBron is worse than blaming CP3 because of everything he does for teams he is part of.

 

Blaming LeBron for his team for not winning a ring would be like a child blaming his single mother, that has 2 jobs, for not being able to afford him a 2nd pair of shoes in a given month. Completely disregard she just spent $230 on some Foams for you, but she is a horrible mother because she can't buy you another pair.

 

Come on man.

post #45281 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Friendly View Post

NBA Basketball is sport where the better team wins most of the time. The best of 7 series makes its almost impossible to hide deficences.

I can only think of handful of times when if a superstar played better his team may have won( 2004 Kobe Finals, 2011 Lebron Finals)?

So blaming the superstar for his team's shortcomings all the time is kinda silly.

basketball is the sport where one player can have the most impact on the game

 

so having a better superstar has a HUGE impact on how good a team is 

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post #45282 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea manup View Post
 

i have been saying this for years now :lol

 

which is exactly why cp is overrated, he gets mentioned with all time greats when he doesnt have nearly the same impact on the game

 

because he's a pass first pg

THAT doesn't make HIM overrated. That simply means when constructing a team from a GM perspective, if you chose to make your best player your PG, chances are you will NOT win.

 

That has NOTHING to do with the "ratedness" of the PG that the GM chose to put on that team

post #45283 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican View Post
 

I never blamed LeBron for his TEAMS not winning a ring. I think to blame LeBron is worse than blaming CP3 because of everything he does for teams he is part of.

 

Blaming LeBron for his team for not winning a ring would be like a child blaming his single mother, that has 2 jobs, for not being able to afford him a 2nd pair of shoes in a given month. Completely disregard she just spent $230 on some Foams for you, but she is a horrible mother because she can't buy you another pair.

 

Come on man.

I never said you did, I was wondering where you stood on that. Don't assume man, I was asking you a simple question lol

post #45284 of 93193

lebron has a top 5 pg top 5 pf and got to pick his coach and teammates

 

how much more help does he need? 

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post #45285 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickmaz96 View Post

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Just gonna leave this here on my way out - http://niketalk.com/t/626875/the-elite-chris-paul-thread
" . . . what a long, strange trip its been . . . " The Grateful Dead, "Truckin'" (and a good summary of my life as an LA Clippers fan)
" . . . what a long, strange trip its been . . . " The Grateful Dead, "Truckin'" (and a good summary of my life as an LA Clippers fan)
post #45286 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Friendly View Post

NBA Basketball is sport where the better team wins most of the time. The best of 7 series makes its almost impossible to hide deficences.

I can only think of handful of times when if a superstar played better his team may have won( 2004 Kobe Finals, 2011 Lebron Finals)?

So blaming the superstar for his team's shortcomings all the time is kinda silly.

agreed on boths finals series . some times player can and should be blamed for not winning. both kobe and lebron lost those series for there teams in my eyes.

 

 im a kobe fan but i call em how i see em. 

 

 

it might be silly or unfair but thats the way the world works and see its . In the nfl quarterback get all the glory , but when they dont succeed they take most of the blame as well and football is the ultimate team sport. 

post #45287 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea manup View Post
 

basketball is the sport where one player can have the most impact on the game

 

so having a better superstar has a HUGE impact on how good a team is 

Sure it is but when you are in the Finals and you are probably playing against a team with 2-3 other superstars, it takes more than just having a Superstar as being the difference in winning/losing a playoff/conference series

post #45288 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea manup View Post
 

lebron has a top 5 pg top 5 pf and got to pick his coach and teammates

 

how much more help does he need? 

He played against a great team. A historically GREAT team.

 

Why are we blaming the most productive person on a team? Do you hear yourself? Think about how illogical that sounds. 

 

Blame the person that does the MOST for us when WE don't succeed.

 

That sounds flat out STUPID

post #45289 of 93193
Laker fans in here full of negativity. Settle down guys jeez. We need to restart that Free throw discussion.
post #45290 of 93193

CP3 game 6, 31 7 and 11 on 10/19

 

Crawford 4-13

 

Rivers 2-8

 

Reddick 4-13

 

Barnes 4-12

 

CP3 should have done more because it's his fault |I

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post #45291 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Van Ho View Post
 

I never said you did, I was wondering where you stood on that. Don't assume man, I was asking you a simple question lol

I can't logically blame the most productive person on a team for his team not being successful.

post #45292 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakersman3000 View Post
 

agreed on boths . some times player can and should be blamed for not winning. both kobe and lebron lost those series for there teams in my eyes.

 

 im a kobe fan but i call em how i see em. 

 

Y'all would have won that if Kobe got out of the way man.

 

Ben had no answer for Shaq

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post #45293 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea manup View Post
 

i have been saying this for years now :lol

 

which is exactly why cp is overrated, he gets mentioned with all time greats when he doesnt have nearly the same impact on the game

 

because he's a pass first pg

THAT doesn't make HIM overrated. That simply means when constructing a team from a GM perspective, if you chose to make your best player your PG, chances are you will NOT win.

 

That has NOTHING to do with the "ratedness" of the PG that the GM chose to put on that team

if people are ranking him above (for example) someone like tmac, then yes that is the very definition of overrated

 

when people talk about him being a top 3 all time pg when others have actually led their teams to championships, yes it does make him overrated

 

when people need to put "pure" infront of "pg" just so they can call him the best pure pg when they know guys like steph are clearly better point guards, yes it does make him overrated

 

the only way he can change this and NT's love for slandering the little fraud is to win in the playoffs, deal with it 8)

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post #45294 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican View Post
 

 

Why are we blaming the most productive person on a team? Do you hear yourself? Think about how illogical that sounds. 

 

Blame the person that does the MOST for us when WE don't succeed.

 

 

 

Valid

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post #45295 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea manup View Post
 

lebron has a top 5 pg top 5 pf and got to pick his coach and teammates

 

how much more help does he need? 

He played against a great team. A historically GREAT team.

 

Why are we blaming the most productive person on a team? Do you hear yourself? Think about how illogical that sounds. 

 

Blame the person that does the MOST for us when WE don't succeed.

 

That sounds flat out STUPID

a L is a L

 

lose in the playoffs and its a wasted season, no one cares about or will remember you

 

sorry, but thats how it is and always will be 

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post #45296 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican View Post
 

I can't logically blame the most productive person on a team for his team not being successful.

so if the best player on the team , has a horrible series /doesnt show up or gets shut down he shouldnt be blamed ? i think it depends on circumstances. its not just black and white. sometime  they do deserve blame as i point out kobe in 04 and lebron in 11 and other times it isnt valid. 

post #45297 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea manup View Post
 

if people are ranking him above (for example) someone like tmac, then yes that is the very definition of overrated

 

when people talk about him being a top 3 all time pg when others have actually led their teams to championships, yes it does make him overrated

 

when people need to put "pure" infront of "pg" just so they can call him the best pure pg when they know guys like steph are clearly better point guards, yes it does make him overrated

 

the only way he can change this and NT's love for slandering the little fraud is to win in the playoffs, deal with it 8)

I personally don't compare across positions. I mean how can you honestly compare CP3 to TMAC when they have been asked to do different things for their teams.

 

You seem to be the only person using the PURE label in this discussion, what are you trying to do man? :lol

 

I don't recall anyone saying he was a Top 3 PG. Who said that? Name names. I can't agree with that at all. That isn't the consensus so check who is saying that before you use THAT (Him being Top 3) as the general thought of him for you to be calling him overrated.

post #45298 of 93193

dudes like cp0 and lebrun get praised all year for "making their teammates better" why do they suddenly stop doing that in the playoffs? 

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post #45299 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakersman3000 View Post
 

so if the best player on the team , has a horrible series /doesnt show up or gets shut down he shouldnt be blamed ? i think it depends on circumstances. its not just black and white. sometime  they do deserve blame as i point out kobe in 04 and lebron in 11 and other times it isnt valid. 

 

You're right

 

 

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post #45300 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakersman3000 View Post
 

so if the best player on the team , has a horrible series /doesnt show up or gets shut down he shouldnt be blamed ? i think it depends on circumstances..... 

It does depend on the circumstance but chances are, without that best player, the team wouldn't even be there.

 

Also, we have to look at why a best player struggles. Is he a perimeter player that is seeing a lot of double teams in a finals series? What if his teammates don't step up and the opposing team doesn't have to play THEM honestly and continue doubling the star player.

 

Is that HIS fault or is it the fault of the teammates for not being productive enough that the opposing team has to stop doubling the star.

 

So yes, it depends on the circumstance but being a coach, I can never blame a loss on one play and/or one player. I just can't. So I am not looking at it as a FAN or the media where a finger is pointed at one player or one play. That isn't how a 48 minute game between two teams work

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