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post #55561 of 93193
Not sure if posted but TWolves fans may get their wish nerd.gif


Tom Thibodeau, Timberwolves make 'contact'

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/7/71/1319825/report-tom-thibodeau-timberwolves-contact


If I'm Thibs I'm taking the Minny job over NY, it's not even close.
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post #55562 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by CP1708 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carver View Post

@CP1708
 be honest bro how many Wolves games have you caught this year and last laugh.gif

I've watched damb near all of them.. I am a big Wiggins fan, I just don't see him being much more than a good scorer.. that's not even a knock on him. He's not going to magically become someone who can create for others.. he has the ball in his hands A LOT no reason he can't at least get 3 a game. Don't get me started with his rebounding.

He's a kill only player, ain't eem mad. I just don't see a superstar. But that's just my opinion. 

Probably a dozen or so last year, maybe 15-20 so far this year.

And I don’t have any issue with the kid.

You guys wanna use stats and shooting percentages, and pi squared divided by 16 footers, that’s all glorious, but that doesn’t tell you jack **** about what he’s asked to do.

You, nor I, knows what Sam Mitchell asks him to do. Or what they practice, and tell him they want from him. Or Rubio. Or Towns, etc. Maybe they want him ISO’ing all the time. Maybe they want him to focus on scoring, now, and later on down the line they will ask him to distribute, once the double/triple teams start coming.

Maybe “regress” is just for lack of a better term or something, and not really indicative of how he’s actually growing in his own game. Which you can’t put a damn stat on. Kobe’s 3 point shooting got worse his first 3 years. Then it leveled off again 2 years later. In his SEVENTH year, he jumped big time with his long range shooting. Both in volume, and accuracy. Seven. Years. He added a nice weapon to his arsenal. Thru work. Wiggins, from what I can tell, will work. As hard as Kobe? I dunno, none of us do, maybe he’ll work even harder. Kobe wasn’t locking anyone down in 96-97-98-99, and then suddenly he started working on defense over the all-star break with Payton and suddenly he started to become proficient at it. Within a year he was really good.

Magic in the late 80’s would come back each year with a new skill, or much improved one. Be it simple things like free throws, or adding the 3 to his game.

I would think a Timberwolve fanbase would remember KG in year 1-2 wasn’t much, and 2-3 years later, boom. I guess if it were today, February of KG’s second year, we’d be saying KG hit his peak, he’s just a nice talented player, never gonna be much more than an ok scorer, or decent rebounder, blah blah blah.

Wiggins may just be focused on scoring this year. Maybe next year he’ll focus on passing out of double teams. The year after defense. Year after that, 3 ball. The next year rebounding better. It’s adding to your game as you go along. Age 20-21-22-23 etc. It’s what the coaching staff asks him to work on, and improve on. You don’t just go into an offseason and say focus on improving everything. You focus on an area and work on that area, year after year. Add it to your repertoire. To already be calling him Rudy Gay, or DeMar DeRozan (is DeMar not having a career best year, now, years into his career? nerd.gif ) Players add to their game, it takes time, it takes work, it takes years. It doesn’t just show up on basketball reference the day he starts working on it.

You guys wanna run around and call him regressed, and lower his ceiling, and he’s Rudy G 2.0, go on ahead. I see a talented as hell kid learning on the fly and now adding another super baby to his team to work and grow with. If he has the hunger in him to be in the gym non-stop during the off-season, he’ll be just fine. And you guys and your readymade labels will look absolutely foolish. If he doesn’t work like that, and just wants to gun and no coach(es) will get thru to him, then I’ll look foolish.

TY



Regression is the most misused word when it comes to young athletes like this. I use the example with young quarterbacks all the time, but when you see a guy struggle in years 2 and/or 3, it is not always that the player get worse. Stats may "regress," but when you start asking a quarterback to read certain things in a defense, call his own plays, run check with me's at the line and overall take on a heavier and different load, it takes time and slows the instincts as there is more thinking involved as practice starts to get implemented in gametime action. To what CP said, we have no idea what Wiggins is really being told and what he's trying to implement in year two, let alone all the other factors that come along with his circumstance. I would chill and wait a few more years. Regression talk in year 2 makes little sense. You aren't more polished as a rookie and that's in almost every case.
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post #55563 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abematic View Post

Rockets have contacted 8 teams to trade Dwight howard. 

Is one of them the Lakers?

Just to troll, I would if I was Morey
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post #55564 of 93193
The next step for these young T-Wolves players is now going to be to learn how to win in this league.

Ricky Rubio has played in 250 games, he's 102-148 (.408)
Andrew Wiggins has played in 136 games, he's 33-103 (.242)
Towns thus far is 17-37

This is close to 100% on the Timberwolves blame though I will say that.
post #55565 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragicon View Post

^ I don't understand why teams don't just go crazy at the trade deadline. If you aren't the cavs, Warriors, Spurs, or thunder, (maybe Toronto or heat), you really have no shot at the finals. Why not just start trading superstars for superstars and see how it goes. Blake, cp3, melo, Dwight, and others should just be on the block and send them to other teams.

And trade guys just for the sake of trading them? Teams make trades to try and get better, not just because they can. If the Clippers were to trade either Blake or CP it means they're giving up on their core and starting over. No reason for them to do that in the middle of the season. They can just let things play out and see where they're at in the Summer.

They'll be right back in the same spot. Rinse and repeat. An owner's dream of having large amounts of revenue. That's the reason they don't do it, job security for the gm, and revenue for the owner.


Cp3 hasn't won a thing, and he's getting up there in age... Why not try to trade him while his value is high?

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post #55566 of 93193
Originally Posted by Abematic

Pau Gasol for Howard, Do it !

Great for Houston, but Dwight ain't trying to play the gritty Chicago defense they've been known for the last few years.

 

No way. :lol 

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post #55567 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainSneakerhead23 View Post

Not sure if posted but TWolves fans may get their wish nerd.gif


Tom Thibodeau, Timberwolves make 'contact'

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/7/71/1319825/report-tom-thibodeau-timberwolves-contact


If I'm Thibs I'm taking the Minny job over NY, it's not even close.

i'd be shocked if Phil even offers him a job, let alone hire him laugh.gif

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post #55568 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeking2102 View Post

That's fine and great, and he could turn the corner because he is young.

But he has regressed from year one to year two. It is what it is. You can blame it on system, what Sam is asking him to do, etc. but they've put the ball in his hands more this season, and he's passed less, shot worse, and has shown a general apathy or disregard rather, for making plays for others. 

Maybe he improves his handle and can play P&R and start making plays more in the future, but don't let Kobe's improvements throughout his career be a guide. In general, young players don't go from having no creative offensive skills to having even good offensive skills. In general, players don't go from shooting 24% from 3 to being league average with volume. It just doesn't happen that often. 

So he could absolutely improve like I said, but to expect a HUGE jump because of his age is kind of naive. 

Ok, I'll go off your basis.

He's playing 1 minute less per game. His rebounds per game are down .8. Did Minny happen to add a pretty good rebounder to the team?
His assists per game are down by .3
His steals are down by .2

Again, in 1 fewer minute on average, per game. Kinda explainable, no? .8, .3, .2 are all kinda marginal differences.

His scoring is up. His PER is up. His overall FG% is up. His TS% is up. His shooting %'s from 3-10 feet are up, his shooting %'s from 10-16 feet are up, his shooting %'s from 16<3 are up. Only his shooting %'s from 3 are down.

At age 20.

THAT'S regression? laugh.gif
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post #55569 of 93193

Dan Woike @DanWoikeSports

If I were a GM, I'd be asking about Patrick Beverly

 

Jonathan Feigen @Jonathan_Feigen

With @WojVerticalNBA reporting Rockets have looked into dealing Dwight Howard, would have to take back nearly $24 million and ....

 
Jonathan Feigen @Jonathan_Feigen

Rockets would also have to find a team with trade assets needed also willing to make move with Howard almost certain to be a free agent.

 

Jonathan Feigen @Jonathan_Feigen

If they are looking, however, it could be a clear signal that they expect Howard to walk as a free agent if they keep him.

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post #55570 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by CP1708 View Post
 

 

 

This has been visited several times over the past month. I've already talked about why he's regressed.

 

(sigh)

 

But Okay he hasn't regressed. Fine lol

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post #55571 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by 651akathePaul View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP1708 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carver View Post

@CP1708
 be honest bro how many Wolves games have you caught this year and last laugh.gif

I've watched damb near all of them.. I am a big Wiggins fan, I just don't see him being much more than a good scorer.. that's not even a knock on him. He's not going to magically become someone who can create for others.. he has the ball in his hands A LOT no reason he can't at least get 3 a game. Don't get me started with his rebounding.

He's a kill only player, ain't eem mad. I just don't see a superstar. But that's just my opinion. 

Probably a dozen or so last year, maybe 15-20 so far this year.

And I don’t have any issue with the kid.

You guys wanna use stats and shooting percentages, and pi squared divided by 16 footers, that’s all glorious, but that doesn’t tell you jack **** about what he’s asked to do.

You, nor I, knows what Sam Mitchell asks him to do. Or what they practice, and tell him they want from him. Or Rubio. Or Towns, etc. Maybe they want him ISO’ing all the time. Maybe they want him to focus on scoring, now, and later on down the line they will ask him to distribute, once the double/triple teams start coming.

Maybe “regress” is just for lack of a better term or something, and not really indicative of how he’s actually growing in his own game. Which you can’t put a damn stat on. Kobe’s 3 point shooting got worse his first 3 years. Then it leveled off again 2 years later. In his SEVENTH year, he jumped big time with his long range shooting. Both in volume, and accuracy. Seven. Years. He added a nice weapon to his arsenal. Thru work. Wiggins, from what I can tell, will work. As hard as Kobe? I dunno, none of us do, maybe he’ll work even harder. Kobe wasn’t locking anyone down in 96-97-98-99, and then suddenly he started working on defense over the all-star break with Payton and suddenly he started to become proficient at it. Within a year he was really good.

Magic in the late 80’s would come back each year with a new skill, or much improved one. Be it simple things like free throws, or adding the 3 to his game.

I would think a Timberwolve fanbase would remember KG in year 1-2 wasn’t much, and 2-3 years later, boom. I guess if it were today, February of KG’s second year, we’d be saying KG hit his peak, he’s just a nice talented player, never gonna be much more than an ok scorer, or decent rebounder, blah blah blah.

Wiggins may just be focused on scoring this year. Maybe next year he’ll focus on passing out of double teams. The year after defense. Year after that, 3 ball. The next year rebounding better. It’s adding to your game as you go along. Age 20-21-22-23 etc. It’s what the coaching staff asks him to work on, and improve on. You don’t just go into an offseason and say focus on improving everything. You focus on an area and work on that area, year after year. Add it to your repertoire. To already be calling him Rudy Gay, or DeMar DeRozan (is DeMar not having a career best year, now, years into his career? nerd.gif ) Players add to their game, it takes time, it takes work, it takes years. It doesn’t just show up on basketball reference the day he starts working on it.

You guys wanna run around and call him regressed, and lower his ceiling, and he’s Rudy G 2.0, go on ahead. I see a talented as hell kid learning on the fly and now adding another super baby to his team to work and grow with. If he has the hunger in him to be in the gym non-stop during the off-season, he’ll be just fine. And you guys and your readymade labels will look absolutely foolish. If he doesn’t work like that, and just wants to gun and no coach(es) will get thru to him, then I’ll look foolish.

TY



Regression is the most misused word when it comes to young athletes like this. I use the example with young quarterbacks all the time, but when you see a guy struggle in years 2 and/or 3, it is not always that the player get worse. Stats may "regress," but when you start asking a quarterback to read certain things in a defense, call his own plays, run check with me's at the line and overall take on a heavier and different load, it takes time and slows the instincts as there is more thinking involved as practice starts to get implemented in gametime action. To what CP said, we have no idea what Wiggins is really being told and what he's trying to implement in year two, let alone all the other factors that come along with his circumstance. I would chill and wait a few more years. Regression talk in year 2 makes little sense. You aren't more polished as a rookie and that's in almost every case.

And as you know, I fight that same fight in terms of QB's and the "regressed" crap everyone throws around nowadays.

Remember, Andrew Luck "regressed" this year. Maybe it's an Andrew thing. laugh.gif
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post #55572 of 93193
Dwight is such a wreck
O-H-I-O

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post #55573 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by CP1708 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeking2102 View Post

That's fine and great, and he could turn the corner because he is young.

But he has regressed from year one to year two. It is what it is. You can blame it on system, what Sam is asking him to do, etc. but they've put the ball in his hands more this season, and he's passed less, shot worse, and has shown a general apathy or disregard rather, for making plays for others. 

Maybe he improves his handle and can play P&R and start making plays more in the future, but don't let Kobe's improvements throughout his career be a guide. In general, young players don't go from having no creative offensive skills to having even good offensive skills. In general, players don't go from shooting 24% from 3 to being league average with volume. It just doesn't happen that often. 

So he could absolutely improve like I said, but to expect a HUGE jump because of his age is kind of naive. 

Ok, I'll go off your basis.

He's playing 1 minute less per game. His rebounds per game are down .8. Did Minny happen to add a pretty good rebounder to the team?
His assists per game are down by .3
His steals are down by .2

Again, in 1 fewer minute on average, per game. Kinda explainable, no? .8, .3, .2 are all kinda marginal differences.

His scoring is up. His PER is up. His overall FG% is up. His TS% is up. His shooting %'s from 3-10 feet are up, his shooting %'s from 10-16 feet are up, his shooting %'s from 16<3 are up. Only his shooting %'s from 3 are down.

At age 20.

THAT'S regression? laugh.gif

This I can roll with. Wiggins is still doing some damn nice things for this crap team.

And as a Timberwolves fan when he was first drafted if you would have told me he'd be a 21 PPG scorer by year two (and nothing else) I would have said sign me up. laugh.gif
post #55574 of 93193

I would rather have Asik back in Chicago than Dwight

post #55575 of 93193
Shoeking don't waste your time bruh they ain't getting it b mean.gif

Thibs to da wolves pimp.gif
post #55576 of 93193
laugh.gif ya never fail NTNBA Thread, "Wiggins has regressed" mean.gif give me a break.
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post #55577 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Daddy View Post

I would rather have Asik back in Chicago than Dwight

I would pull the trigger on a Pau Asik trade so hard man
post #55578 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by leemelone View Post

Quote:
You can become a better basketball player but it may not translate to a better TS%, Assist rate, PER, rebound rate, etc.

This.

facts. You can become a better hooper by just making less bonehead decisions. And honestly, the worse you starting off, the higher the jump when you play better. think Mike Conley.

Lakers tho...

Lakers tho...

post #55579 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carver View Post

Shoeking don't waste your time bruh they ain't getting it b mean.gif

Thibs to da wolves pimp.gif

Oh I get it. YOU two want it to be a certain way, and don't want to just sit back and let the kid develop. You want flat out jumps in numbers to prove what he is or isn't learning. You want some sort of semi-finished product, already, at the age of 20 instead of sitting back and sayin, hey, lot of his stuff is trending up, even if slightly, while his minutes have actually come down a tick. Under a new coach no less, while incorporating yet another young stud onto the team.

If it was year 2, exact same coach, exact same roster, that's one thing to expect, but adding KAT, and changing coaches, and numbers are still trending upwards, that's not regression. He may not be doing exactly what you two want him to do, but don't slap him with regression label when it's not the case. You set expectations, and he's not working on what you guys want, and that disappoints you.

He very well may not be passing enough, or defending well enough, I'm sure you guys are right about that, but he's a ways away from being finished learning and growing into his overall game, and playing with Towns over the next several years will only help him get even more out of himself. But that takes time.
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post #55580 of 93193
Lakers really lost out by Dwight bailing on them, right . lol.
post #55581 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyGuy45 View Post

This I can roll with. Wiggins is still doing some damn nice things for this crap team.

And as a Timberwolves fan when he was first drafted if you would have told me he'd be a 21 PPG scorer by year two (and nothing else) I would have said sign me up. laugh.gif

Yeah. If he's "just" a scorer is it really such a bad thing? Some guys just aren't good playmakers. Just not a part of their game. Doesn't mean they can't be great players by maximizing what they are good at. Maybe Wiggins is just more Nique than MJ. With the other pieces Minnesota has, that should be perfectly fine.
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" . . . what a long, strange trip its been . . . " The Grateful Dead, "Truckin'" (and a good summary of my life as an LA Clippers fan)
post #55582 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by CP1708 View Post


Ok, I'll go off your basis.

He's playing 1 minute less per game. His rebounds per game are down .8. Did Minny happen to add a pretty good rebounder to the team?
His assists per game are down by .3
His steals are down by .2

Again, in 1 fewer minute on average, per game. Kinda explainable, no? .8, .3, .2 are all kinda marginal differences.

His scoring is up. His PER is up. His overall FG% is up. His TS% is up. His shooting %'s from 3-10 feet are up, his shooting %'s from 10-16 feet are up, his shooting %'s from 16<3 are up. Only his shooting %'s from 3 are down.

At age 20.

THAT'S regression? laugh.gif

 

 

By the way, Let me get this off...

 

what you cited isn't close to why I said he's regressed. I've watched probably 20 minny games this season in full.

 

Points, assist per game, steals? That's all surface ****. He's a good player. I wouldn't measure regression of a good player from those basis.

 

1) The fact that he took a steep decline on 3 point percentage when his 3 point attempts have gone up a bit is regression to me.

 

2) The fact that his usage rate has taken a big jump this year and is creating less for others is regression to me.

 

3) The fact that he isn't defending as well as he did as a rookie is regression to me

 

4) The fact that he shoots more 16 to 22 footers this year and still barely takes 3's and when he does, is ice cold from there. That may not be regression per say, but it's certainly not improvement.

 

5) The fact that he still can't put the ball on the floor well enough to play P&R efficiently. Again, not regression per say, but it isn't improvement either.

 

And his age suggest that he may improve, but these are areas that don't necessarily improve for players considerably when they already sport the usage rate that wiggins does.

 

If you can't see even a slight regression from wiggins from year 1 to year 2, from the eye test alone, then I mean...Idk lol

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post #55583 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakersman3000 View Post

Lakers really lost out by Dwight bailing on them, right . lol.
I mean, the team is 59-208 since he bailed. laugh.gifohwell.gif
post #55584 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMatic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakersman3000 View Post

Lakers really lost out by Dwight bailing on them, right . lol.
I mean, the team is 59-208 since he bailed. laugh.gifohwell.gif

does +20 more wins really make a difference?

Lakers tho...

Lakers tho...

post #55585 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMatic View Post

I mean, the team is 59-208 since he bailed. laugh.gifohwell.gif
and he's on the trading block.. We wouldn't be contending with him .

So you your saying you wish he would've stayed with the Lakers?
post #55586 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeze View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMatic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakersman3000 View Post

Lakers really lost out by Dwight bailing on them, right . lol.
I mean, the team is 59-208 since he bailed. laugh.gifohwell.gif

does +20 more wins really make a difference?
Probably not, but he would have made the team better in any case.

I haven't really thought about it since he left for Houston, but if he had re-signed the Lakers could have traded Pau for supplemental pieces to help build up the team.
post #55587 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeking2102 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP1708 View Post

Ok, I'll go off your basis.


He's playing 1 minute less per game. His rebounds per game are down .8. Did Minny happen to add a pretty good rebounder to the team?

His assists per game are down by .3

His steals are down by .2


Again, in 1 fewer minute on average, per game. Kinda explainable, no? .8, .3, .2 are all kinda marginal differences.


His scoring is up. His PER is up. His overall FG% is up. His TS% is up. His shooting %'s from 3-10 feet are up, his shooting %'s from 10-16 feet are up, his shooting %'s from 16<3 are up. Only his shooting %'s from 3 are down.


At age 20.


THAT'S regression? laugh.gif


By the way, Let me get this off...

what you cited isn't close to why I said he's regressed. I've watched probably 20 minny games this season in full.

Points, assist per game, steals? That's all surface ****. He's a good player. I wouldn't measure regression of a good player from those basis.

1) The fact that he took a steep decline on 3 point percentage when his 3 point attempts have gone up a bit is regression to me.

2) The fact that his usage rate has taken a big jump this year and is creating less for others is regression to me.

3) The fact that he isn't defending as well as he did as a rookie is regression to me

4) The fact that he shoots more 16 to 22 footers this year and still barely takes 3's and when he does, is ice cold from there. That may not be regression per say, but it's certainly not improvement.

5) The fact that he still can't put the ball on the floor well enough to play P&R efficiently. Again, not regression per say, but it isn't improvement either.

And his age suggest that he may improve, but these are areas that don't necessarily improve for players considerably when they already sport the usage rate that wiggins does.

If you can't see even a slight regression from wiggins from year 1 to year 2, from the eye test alone, then I mean...Idk lol

Quote:
He very well may not be passing enough, or defending well enough, I'm sure you guys are right about that, but he's a ways away from being finished learning and growing into his overall game,

wink.gifnerd.gif

Again, you don't know what Mitchell is asking him to do, or focus on. Maybe they asked him to carry a heavier workload on offense, and back off on defense.

The shooting from 16-22 may not be great, but it's still better than year 1. That's not stepping back.

Maybe he focused on mid-range moreso than 3 point. Right or wrong way to work, that might have been his goal. Or the team asked him to, whatever. Maybe he adds reps behind the arc in the summer. Just giving him a flat out "he's regressed" label, 1.5 years into his career, is just poor form, imo. You wanna roll with it, that's fine. I just don't buy into stuff like that.

Not joking, 10 minutes ago a guy asked me what I was typin, and I said fussin online with some folks that Wiggins has regressed. And he was like "oh yeah, absolutely he has, never roster that guy........" Draft Kings. The dude is talking about his damn fantasy team and tellin me Wiggins has cost him money. laugh.gifmean.gif I know that's not where you're comin from SK, but I just sat here like maaaaaaaannnnn, what the **** today. laugh.giflaugh.gif
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post #55588 of 93193
the best part of this season is rosgo making it to TNT smokin.gif
either you step up or you step off.
either you step up or you step off.
post #55589 of 93193
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakersman3000 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMatic View Post

I mean, the team is 59-208 since he bailed. laugh.gifohwell.gif
and he's on the trading block.. We wouldn't be contending with him .

So you your saying you wish he would've stayed with the Lakers?
He also helped the Rockets get to the WCFs nine months ago.

You're right the Lakers wouldn't be contending, but they'd be better. I wanted the Lakers to re-sign him in 2013, because I didn't think it was good to lose his talent for nothing in return. I don't know if I want him now though.
post #55590 of 93193
Cavs should trade Mozgov and Varajaro for Dwight.
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