2016 NFL Draft Thread - Do NOT spoil picks during Draft, you are warned.....Mods on standby

All the stats a dude named Peyton threw up.. And Eli winning Super Bowls

Carson Palmer just made the NFC championship game







I get Blaine.. But maybe you should look at what Blaine did at mizzou.. You can kinda tell who won't be able to cut it.. Now there are guys who have the tools, but don't have it between the ears
 
itsaboutthattime said:
All the stats a dude named Peyton threw up.. And Eli winning Super Bowls

Carson Palmer just made the NFC championship game







I get Blaine.. But maybe you should look at what Blaine did at mizzou.. You can kinda tell who won't be able to cut it.. Now there are guys who have the tools, but don't have it between the ears
Click to expand...

I can't really outline clear rules to this theory, but to me "Peyton/Eli Manning" is not as much of a goober name as Carson Wentz or Blaine Gabbert :lol: It's pretty arbitrary. I think you can sometimes get away with one of the names being a little questionable sounding, as long as there's a good nickname, a la Big Ben. Brett Favre is a major exception to this rule.

Guys who I'd stay away from drafting high based on goofy names:

-Sage Rosenfels
-Gus Frerotte (I know he made a pro bowl, but still)
-Elvis Grbac (also had a couple good years, but not a franchise QB)
-Matt McGloin
-Tyler Palko
-Jeff Tuel
-Koy Detmer
-Mike Kafka
-Christian Hackenberg (never been sold on his game but he gets a lot of hype, his name pushes me over the edge of not believing in him :lol:)

I had a similar stance about how I'd never use a top 10 draft pick on a guy with Patrick Beverley's haircut because those guys never end up being star players, but that one seems to be falling apart with Okafor and that whole ugly *** Duke starting lineup haircut from last year :lol:
 
Comparing Corners: Florida’s Vernon Hargreaves III vs. Clemson’s Mackensie Alexander

vh333-188x300.jpg


Florida State defensive back Jalen Ramsey is the top secondary player available in the 2016 NFL Draft. Whether you prefer Ramsey at safety or corner, he is a blue chip prospect and clear-cut best DB available.

With that out of the way, the new question is: Who is the second best cornerback in the 2016 class? To answer that, we turn our attention to Florida’s Vernon Hargreaves III and Clemson’s Mackensie Alexander. By comparing them in key areas, the information will decide who the better prospect is between them. First, some background information on the standout corners.

Both Hargreaves and Alexander were highly regarded recruits in the 2013 class as ESPN had them ranked third and fourth overall respectively and rated as five-star recruits. They were destined to be compared to each other and oddly enough, Jalen Ramsey was the 14th rated recruit per ESPN and rated as a four-star prospect that same year.

While most of the analysis you read in this piece is subjective, Hargreaves having a better collegiate career is not. Hargreaves played in 36 career games and racked up 121 tackles, 10 interceptions and 27 pass breakups. Alexander played in 23 games and tallied 44 tackles, 0 interceptions and 11 pass breakups. Hargreaves was a consensus All-American in 2015 and a three time (2013-2015) First-Team All-SEC selection. Alexander was named First-Team All-ACC in 2015. It’s also worth mentioning that despite entering college the same year, there is a fairly significant discrepancy in date of birth between the two players. Hargreaves was born on 6/3/1995 while Alexander was born on 11/12/1993. The experience, resume and age all heavily favor Mr. Hargreaves.

Coverage

The reason I am comparing these two players is because they are both outstanding cover-corners and there is not much discrepancy in their abilities to lockdown their side of the field. Alexander is a better player in off-man coverage and anticipates routes better, particularly on the inside release. Hargreaves has the edge when it comes to press coverage as he is adept at being physical with his hands at the line, remaining balanced through contact, eating up the receivers stem and disrupting the timing of the route. The differentiating skill in this area is which player allows less cushion and is more difficult to complete a pass on. That edge goes to Hargreaves. Overall he remains connected with his opponent and mirrors with better consistency.

Ball Skills/Competing at the Catch Point

While statistics do not generally tell the whole story, in this case they do. Hargreaves has a combined 37 interceptions and pass breakups (1.02/game) compared to Alexander who combined for just 11 pass breakups (.47/game) and did not intercept a pass in college. Hargreaves is a natural ball magnet and he is outstanding at tracking the football down the field and breaking up passes. While it does not appear Alexander has been tested as many times at the catch point as Hargreaves, he is just not as refined in this area. It’s not a weakness for Alexander by any means, it’s just not as much of strength for him as it is Hargreaves.

Tackling

Prior to writing this article, I charted five games from the 2015 season for each player. Here are my tackling notes for each player:

Hargreaves (Kentucky, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Alabama, New Mexico State)


  • 15 secure, solo open field tackles
  • 4 missed open field tackles. Reasons noted below:
  • Dove at Tennessee RB Jalen Hurd’s feet and whiffed coming downhill in the boundary
  • Went for a strip of the football and missed the tackle
  • Was backside run defender in a short yardage situation, trailed the play and was unable to bring the ball carrier down from behind
  • Whiffed low coming downhill to tackle a rocket screen in the boundary

Alexander (NC State, North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida State, Alabama)

  • 6 secure, solo open field tackles
  • 3 missed open field tackles. Reasons noted below:
  • Whiffed, diving at ankles in run support in the boundary
  • Took a bad angle and couldn’t reach ball carrier in space
  • Gave too much cushion on comeback route and failed to breakdown in space and make the play

From the five game sample size on each player, Hargreaves was simply more involved by having far more opportunities to make tackles and it wasn’t because he was simply allowing receptions and tackling his man. He was flying up in run support and making tackles on receiver screens. For the most part, it was with excellent technique and he made the play. Both players are physical guys who are willing to take on blocks and are reliable D-gap defenders but the numbers indicate Hargreaves is a better tackler and his overall technique is more consistent.

Reactionary Skills

This is another area where there isn’t much that separates these players but the slight advantage goes to Alexander. Healexander anticipates routes better and is quicker to react to screens/run plays. It’s fair to say that it’s not a weakness of Hargreaves but just as much of a strength as it is to Alexander.

alexander-225x300.jpg


Athleticism/Size

Hargreaves is listed at 5’11’’, 199 pounds while Alexander is listed at 5’11’’, 195 pounds. I highly doubt either player checks in at 5’11’’ in an official measurement and the weight could drop by up to ten pounds when they step on the scale. Alexander has a thicker, stockier frame with long arms while Hargreaves appears to be a bit more lean.

Both players represent fluid athletes with smooth feet and can precisely change directions with ease. They are equally adept in their ability to flip their hips and run with top-end speed. Since I am forcing myself to give an edge, the pendulum swings ever so slightly to Alexander. I see marginally better burst when driving off the back foot and closing distances in short areas. Both players are terrific athletes who will test extremely well and achieve every desirable athletic testing number.

So Who is the Better Prospect?

The information should always make the decision and in this case that is Hargreaves. His blend of cover skills, tackling, and ball skills make him the top defensive back after Jalen Ramsey on my board. He also enters the NFL with a superior resume and is 20 months younger than Alexander. Both players have the upside of high-level starters in the NFL but my preference is Vernon Hargreaves III.
 
5am6oody72 said:
I can't really outline clear rules to this theory, but to me "Peyton/Eli Manning" is not as much of a goober name as Carson Wentz or Blaine Gabbert
laugh.gif
It's pretty arbitrary. I think you can sometimes get away with one of the names being a little questionable sounding, as long as there's a good nickname, a la Big Ben. Brett Favre is a major exception to this rule.

Guys who I'd stay away from drafting high based on goofy names:

-Sage Rosenfels
-Gus Frerotte (I know he made a pro bowl, but still)
-Elvis Grbac (also had a couple good years, but not a franchise QB)
-Matt McGloin
-Tyler Palko
-Jeff Tuel
-Koy Detmer
-Mike Kafka
-Christian Hackenberg (never been sold on his game but he gets a lot of hype, his name pushes me over the edge of not believing in him
laugh.gif
)

I had a similar stance about how I'd never use a top 10 draft pick on a guy with Patrick Beverley's haircut because those guys never end up being star players, but that one seems to be falling apart with Okafor and that whole ugly *** Duke starting lineup haircut from last year
laugh.gif
Click to expand...
LOL I always went by the opposite man. If the guys name is too generic - he ain't gonna be great. 

draft a guy named John Smith, he is gonna be mediocre to the max. 
laugh.gif
 

Because of this....I knew Geno Smith was gonna be a bum... smh...

With this mentality... Bacarri Rambo is supposed to be the GOAT.
mean.gif
 
Last edited:
I thought reggie nelson was going be something special at safety
 
5am6oody72 said:
itsaboutthattime said:
All the stats a dude named Peyton threw up.. And Eli winning Super Bowls

Carson Palmer just made the NFC championship game







I get Blaine.. But maybe you should look at what Blaine did at mizzou.. You can kinda tell who won't be able to cut it.. Now there are guys who have the tools, but don't have it between the ears
Click to expand...

I can't really outline clear rules to this theory, but to me "Peyton/Eli Manning" is not as much of a goober name as Carson Wentz or Blaine Gabbert :lol: It's pretty arbitrary. I think you can sometimes get away with one of the names being a little questionable sounding, as long as there's a good nickname, a la Big Ben. Brett Favre is a major exception to this rule.

Guys who I'd stay away from drafting high based on goofy names:

-Sage Rosenfels
-Gus Frerotte (I know he made a pro bowl, but still)
-Elvis Grbac (also had a couple good years, but not a franchise QB)
-Matt McGloin
-Tyler Palko
-Jeff Tuel
-Koy Detmer
-Mike Kafka
-Christian Hackenberg (never been sold on his game but he gets a lot of hype, his name pushes me over the edge of not believing in him :lol:)

I had a similar stance about how I'd never use a top 10 draft pick on a guy with Patrick Beverley's haircut because those guys never end up being star players, but that one seems to be falling apart with Okafor and that whole ugly *** Duke starting lineup haircut from last year :lol:
Click to expand...

:rofl: I thought I was the only one who thought like this! I would hear a prospects name and if it doesn't sound easy on the ears, I would assume he'd be a bust haha
 
^ I know.. But I expected him to come in and be a difference maker right away.. Ed reed type of all over the place type safety

Maybe not THAT great in coverage, but better against the run


Like I said, something special
 
dreClark said:
Comparing Corners: Florida’s Vernon Hargreaves III vs. Clemson’s Mackensie Alexander

vh333-188x300.jpg


Florida State defensive back Jalen Ramsey is the top secondary player available in the 2016 NFL Draft. Whether you prefer Ramsey at safety or corner, he is a blue chip prospect and clear-cut best DB available.

With that out of the way, the new question is: Who is the second best cornerback in the 2016 class? To answer that, we turn our attention to Florida’s Vernon Hargreaves III and Clemson’s Mackensie Alexander. By comparing them in key areas, the information will decide who the better prospect is between them. First, some background information on the standout corners.

Both Hargreaves and Alexander were highly regarded recruits in the 2013 class as ESPN had them ranked third and fourth overall respectively and rated as five-star recruits. They were destined to be compared to each other and oddly enough, Jalen Ramsey was the 14th rated recruit per ESPN and rated as a four-star prospect that same year.

While most of the analysis you read in this piece is subjective, Hargreaves having a better collegiate career is not. Hargreaves played in 36 career games and racked up 121 tackles, 10 interceptions and 27 pass breakups. Alexander played in 23 games and tallied 44 tackles, 0 interceptions and 11 pass breakups. Hargreaves was a consensus All-American in 2015 and a three time (2013-2015) First-Team All-SEC selection. Alexander was named First-Team All-ACC in 2015. It’s also worth mentioning that despite entering college the same year, there is a fairly significant discrepancy in date of birth between the two players. Hargreaves was born on 6/3/1995 while Alexander was born on 11/12/1993. The experience, resume and age all heavily favor Mr. Hargreaves.

Coverage

The reason I am comparing these two players is because they are both outstanding cover-corners and there is not much discrepancy in their abilities to lockdown their side of the field. Alexander is a better player in off-man coverage and anticipates routes better, particularly on the inside release. Hargreaves has the edge when it comes to press coverage as he is adept at being physical with his hands at the line, remaining balanced through contact, eating up the receivers stem and disrupting the timing of the route. The differentiating skill in this area is which player allows less cushion and is more difficult to complete a pass on. That edge goes to Hargreaves. Overall he remains connected with his opponent and mirrors with better consistency.

Ball Skills/Competing at the Catch Point

While statistics do not generally tell the whole story, in this case they do. Hargreaves has a combined 37 interceptions and pass breakups (1.02/game) compared to Alexander who combined for just 11 pass breakups (.47/game) and did not intercept a pass in college. Hargreaves is a natural ball magnet and he is outstanding at tracking the football down the field and breaking up passes. While it does not appear Alexander has been tested as many times at the catch point as Hargreaves, he is just not as refined in this area. It’s not a weakness for Alexander by any means, it’s just not as much of strength for him as it is Hargreaves.

Tackling

Prior to writing this article, I charted five games from the 2015 season for each player. Here are my tackling notes for each player:

Hargreaves (Kentucky, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Alabama, New Mexico State)


  • 15 secure, solo open field tackles
  • 4 missed open field tackles. Reasons noted below:
  • Dove at Tennessee RB Jalen Hurd’s feet and whiffed coming downhill in the boundary
  • Went for a strip of the football and missed the tackle
  • Was backside run defender in a short yardage situation, trailed the play and was unable to bring the ball carrier down from behind
  • Whiffed low coming downhill to tackle a rocket screen in the boundary

Alexander (NC State, North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida State, Alabama)

  • 6 secure, solo open field tackles
  • 3 missed open field tackles. Reasons noted below:
  • Whiffed, diving at ankles in run support in the boundary
  • Took a bad angle and couldn’t reach ball carrier in space
  • Gave too much cushion on comeback route and failed to breakdown in space and make the play

From the five game sample size on each player, Hargreaves was simply more involved by having far more opportunities to make tackles and it wasn’t because he was simply allowing receptions and tackling his man. He was flying up in run support and making tackles on receiver screens. For the most part, it was with excellent technique and he made the play. Both players are physical guys who are willing to take on blocks and are reliable D-gap defenders but the numbers indicate Hargreaves is a better tackler and his overall technique is more consistent.

Reactionary Skills

This is another area where there isn’t much that separates these players but the slight advantage goes to Alexander. Healexander anticipates routes better and is quicker to react to screens/run plays. It’s fair to say that it’s not a weakness of Hargreaves but just as much of a strength as it is to Alexander.

alexander-225x300.jpg


Athleticism/Size

Hargreaves is listed at 5’11’’, 199 pounds while Alexander is listed at 5’11’’, 195 pounds. I highly doubt either player checks in at 5’11’’ in an official measurement and the weight could drop by up to ten pounds when they step on the scale. Alexander has a thicker, stockier frame with long arms while Hargreaves appears to be a bit more lean.

Both players represent fluid athletes with smooth feet and can precisely change directions with ease. They are equally adept in their ability to flip their hips and run with top-end speed. Since I am forcing myself to give an edge, the pendulum swings ever so slightly to Alexander. I see marginally better burst when driving off the back foot and closing distances in short areas. Both players are terrific athletes who will test extremely well and achieve every desirable athletic testing number.

So Who is the Better Prospect?

The information should always make the decision and in this case that is Hargreaves. His blend of cover skills, tackling, and ball skills make him the top defensive back after Jalen Ramsey on my board. He also enters the NFL with a superior resume and is 20 months younger than Alexander. Both players have the upside of high-level starters in the NFL but my preference is Vernon Hargreaves III.
Click to expand...

Gonna be interesting following these two because I've seen such strong beliefs each way. This guy says VH3 easily, lot of others say Alexander easily. And of course you have Ramsey to boot.

I'm hopin we pull one of them, I don't really care which at this point. All of them are upgrades over the crap we have currently. :smh:
 
I don't think either of them will be around when the Dolphins pick. I personally like Alexander way more than Hargreaves but it's still really early in the process. So much could change after the combine.
 
3 corners ain't goin in the first 7. Least, I don't think so. With Bosa, Tunsil and 1-2 QB's to boot. One of them should be there.
 
CP1708 said:
3 corners ain't goin in the first 7. Least, I don't think so. With Bosa, Tunsil and 1-2 QB's to boot. One of them should be there.
Click to expand...

Damn I did not realize you guys actually pick ahead of us. Figured you were around 12 or so. Yeah, at least one of them will definitely be available.

One guy who the Bucs have their eye on at 9 if he interviews well and everything else checks out is Noah Spence. They also love Jalen Ramsey but would probably have to trade up to get him.
 
I think Buckner is gonna jump in there too with Spence.

OT, DE, CB, QB the 4 crown jewels. They take 8-9 of the top 10 spots every year.
 
Hoping ATL can get a good DE/OLB to play opposite of Beasley, S or ILB in the first. I don't get to watch college ball a lot so aside from the obvious names, I'm not sure who to look at.
 
1. Ramsey
2. Ramsey
3. Hargreaves
4. Ramsey
5. Dolphins just not messing up another top 10 pick
 
I think he goes top 5 as well.

Doesn't mean that's not who I would want.

Plays FS, paired with Reshad Jones. Helps corners with everything over top.
Can drop down into the slot to play corner on sub packages. Two stones, one player.
 
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