Birth of a Nation sounds INSANE. vol. Nat Turner Slave Rebellion Movie (Teaser Trailer - p. 5)

They should be portrayed as real people, believable characters.

Zik If your master is your father that means he raped your mother. Why would you want anything from him? That would be my question.

Master Zik said:

I mean there were black slave owners during American slavery.

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And those black slave owners were just as f'ed as all the white ones. This idea that some slave masters were "nice" is silly. I don't care if a few of them taught their slaves how to read and write, talked to them respectful. They still participated in the distrution of a people. Whether it was physical or mental. They still were ok with black people building this country, building this economy while getting nothing for it.

gamble said:

Sorry guys there is no lesser evil when it comes to owning humans. Devils are devils & no matter the "lesser treatment" you still or practicing the same devil **** Miss me with this between the line BS

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It's so easy to have this stance when you're centuries removed from that life.

Pretty sure you'd change your tune if you were faced with several former slaves turned slave owners.

gamble said:

Tf should they be betrayed as? Heroes of the world? Like dude is really in here caping for slaves owners. I'm sorry if your ancestors were devils but it is what it is. They were subhumans & deserved extermination. Get over it.

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No I'm not.

I'm just talking about history. Something you're clearly lacking education on.

That's the problem dudes are quick to be mad about something but aren't informed enough to know what they should be about or who they should be directing that anger to.

Are you really gonna say somebody like William "April" Elson Jr. was subhuman and deserved extermination?

Maximus Meridius said:

Zik If your master is your father that means he raped your mother. Why would you want anything from him? That would be my question.

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So let all the other slaves remain slaves until they die? Is that why you don't address the scenario?

Saying why would you want anything from your rapist slave owning father is a loaded distraction question. We talking about slavery. Not accepting inheritance.

I'll assume you'd just go about your way and leave those ppl to their fate.

Master Zik said:

I mean there were black slave owners during American slavery.

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And those black slave owners were just as f'ed as all the white ones. This idea that some slave masters were "nice" is silly. I don't care if a few of them taught their slaves how to read and write, talked to them respectful. They still participated in the distrution of a people. Whether it was physical or mental. They still were ok with black people building this country, building this economy while getting nothing for it.

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So black slave owners that bought slaves and then freed them were just as ****** up as any other slave owners.

Okay.

All I did was present the scenario to yall since I was getting the assumption from most of yall that slave owners were just evil ppl from the outset and nothing they could do could change that but I told yall the different situations and yall have stuck to your stances. Although I'm not sure everybody is comprehending the context I laid out.

We just gonna disagree on this topic.

dudes in here really capin for white ppl in a movie about slavery? 

Know your history

what that doesnt even have anything to do with what i said

Your whole point is a loaded distraction.

"Well what if it was your father"

"Well what if they treated them with respect"

"Well what if they were just going along with it"


C'mon man.

Zik I wasn't even referencing you. But since you engaged miss me acting like you're privy to some special information. Ellison was half devil & just as much deserved extermination as the rest. But nah slave breeding & human trafficking is cool as long as you treat your slaves a bit better than the full out devils. You're not gonna argue a good slave owner. Not gonna happen.

I guess I need more education because I can't agree with your stance Ziks. I see what you are trying to say but it is slavery either way. So yea, I will stick to calling a nice slave master an oxymoronic statement.

Respect to you and your family though

If you were seeing what I was saying you'd know I was never saying it wasn't slavery.

I'll stop there cuz it seems now you're getting in to that make up ****, forget the point, confuse for the sake of arguing territory.

gamble said:

Zik I wasn't even referencing you. But since you engaged miss me acting like you're privy to some special information. Ellison was half devil & just as much deserved extermination as the rest. But nah slave breeding & human trafficking is cool as long as you treat your slaves a bit better than the full out devils. You're not gonna argue a good slave owner. Not gonna happen.

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@ half devil. Clown

It's not special info b. It's just knowledge that is not taught in schools for everyone to know. It's something you have to pursue.

Nobody is talking about slave breeding and this was never well these guys treated their slaves better.

Maximus Meridius said:

Your whole point is a loaded distraction.

"Well what if it was your father"

"Well what if they treated them with respect"

"Well what if they were just going along with it"


C'mon man.

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These ppl actually existed and did those things though.

It's why laws were put in place in many states that slave owners couldn't immediately free their slaves after buying them and there was a whole process put in place for a slave to buy their freedom.

All I did was pose the hypothetical as what if it was you and these were your options. Instead of addressing that you got distracted with something else but it's not surprising yall can't put yourselves in that situation without all the fluff and bs.

I wasn't implying that you weren't calling it slavery. I was saying, either way it is slavery so EYE can't subscribe that there is a "nice" element to it.

Somebody having to buy their freedom is still wrong bruh.

Master Zik said:

Maximus Meridius said:

Zik If your master is your father that means he raped your mother. Why would you want anything from him? That would be my question.

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So let all the other slaves remain slaves until they die? Is that why you don't address the scenario?

Saying why would you want anything from your rapist slave owning father is a loaded distraction question. We talking about slavery. Not accepting inheritance.

I'll assume you'd just go about your way and leave those ppl to their fate.

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And to answer the question... If you're placed in that situation you should let them choose their fate. It shouldn't be up to you. If you do choose to be their "inherited owner" no matter how good you treat them it's still f'ed up.

So no matter how well you treat someone the fact that you own(ed) them means you're a piece of ****? No grey, just straight up black & white like that?

Maximus Meridius said:

Somebody having to buy their freedom is still wrong bruh.

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At this point I gotta assume you're purposely being dense.

We are not disagreeing about slavery being wrong. The entire thing is wrong. That's not what's being discussed.

Where do you get in any of my posts that a slave having to buy their freedom is right and okay?

I think the problem here is you're having trouble grasping the reality for slaves during this time. Aint no individual black person is just gonna up and say slavery is wrong, this has to stop. I'm not gonna be a slave anymore. That's not an option. In this reality your option is to work and save money in order to buy your freedom (if that's even an option for you based on your slave owner).

You got this defiant stance about it like if you were living in that time you'd have an option

Maximus Meridius said:

And to answer the question... If you're placed in that situation you should let them choose their fate.

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Choose what fate? These are slaves. Many uneducated. What you mean let them choose their fate. Have some common sense when you think about what their options are.

Exactly what are you saying you would let them free? Cuz that's a process to free them. You can't just wake up and tell them go do what you want and dip. If that happens they gonna leave the plantation and the white folk from the plantation over yonder or any ol white ppl looking for work gonna beat em to death or capture them or since it's the only life they know end up going working on a different plantation.

You don't consider any responsibility you might have in that situation for them when you just free them? Not gonna send them on their way with a good deal of money? A ticket up North at least? I mean we talking mid to late 1700s/early 1800s. No consideration on educating them a bit so they can be fit to fend for themselves and possibly their family?

Leave those ppl to their fate sounds vague as ****. Almost sounds like let them die in the south to me.

It shouldn't be up to you.

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Again I don't think you're grasping the situation.

Ideally, yes, no person should be able to control the lives of other grown ppl. However, this is not an ideal situation.

If you do choose to be their "inherited owner" no matter how good you treat them it's still f'ed up.

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Yes, in general it would be ****** up but the intent matters in this situation. You're not just remaining their owner for your benefit. You'd be trying to better the lives of a group of ppl (cuz you see them as ppl not property) as best you can cuz you know if you just cut em loose not many are gonna make it. Is that cool with you? Cold ****** up world? That's it?

And again I'm not saying there were thousands of these kinds of slave owners but it's not like they didn't exist. Not to mention black slave owners who had to try and buy their children and spouses so they could be together and due to laws couldn't immediately free them.

Is a father trying to buy his son ****** up too?

We can take it to Django if what I'm talking about can be clearer. His whole plan with Schultz was to buy his wife from Candy. Technically she would've still been a slave only this time with an owner that did not plan on treating her like a slave at all. The situation was ****** up obviously but is DJango and Schultz?

If we agree that the whole thing is wrong then what is your point in tryna bring up these rare scenarios where slave masters were "nice" or "respectful"? All of them can catch the sword.


If a black father is tryna buy his son back of course that ain't wrong. That's a whole different story. You went from saying a slave owner in 12 Years A Slave was nice to a father wanting to free his son. Those are 2 totally different things. Just talking in circles now.

the rare scenarios are the point

that way they can justify making the slavemasters in the movie seem less evil because "they werent ALL bad"

I mean the movies not out...we haven't....actually seen....how the slave masters are portrayed.

am I missing something?


What are y'all arguing about?

that is what they were arguing about 

someone said they hope the slavemasters arent cartoon characters

then discussion turned into well some slavemasters were "nice"/black slavemasters etc

meaning that the desired portrayal must include these "nice" slavemasters because they actually did exist

when others are saying there is no such thing as a "nice" slavemaster and that these "nice" slavemasters were a rare occurrence

Hand2HandKing said:

that is what they were arguing about 

someone said they hope the slavemasters arent cartoon characters

then discussion turned into well some slavemasters were "nice"/black slavemasters etc

meaning that the desired portrayal must include these "nice" slavemasters because they actually did exist

when others are saying there is no such thing as a "nice" slavemaster and that these "nice" slavemasters were a rare occurrence

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okay my bad carry on.

US slavery wasn't as bad as slavery in brazil/south america, does that mean US slavery is nice? when you are engadged in something as morally obscene as slavery arguing about the degrees of seems strange to me especially in the context of a film.

but again carry on.

Maximus Meridius said:

If we agree that the whole thing is wrong then what is your point in tryna bring up these rare scenarios where slave masters were "nice" or "respectful"?

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My point was specifically bringing that it wasn't across the board like that which is what I was initially speaking on.

All of them can catch the sword.

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What?

If a black father is tryna buy his son back of course that ain't wrong.

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A father buying back his son is a slave owner. That aint wrong okay.

So now a former slave buying a slave in order to free them at a later point is what? Are you saying it's only okay if they're related?

That's a whole different story. You went from saying a slave owner in 12 Years A Slave was nice to a father wanting to free his son.

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That's cuz there's more than one example that I can bring up. I didn't go from this to that. I listed more than one scenario or instance in several following posts.

I brought up the slave owner in 12 Years A Slave cuz in that scenario it led us to believe he would've believed Northup's story about being kidnapped and forced in to slavery and thus free him for being enslaved.

Those are 2 totally different things. Just talking in circles now.

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We're talking about the slave owner though. How is it 2 different things?

If anything you've just made it clear that one instance is wrong while the other is not regardless of intent.

Hand2HandKing said:

that is what they were arguing about

someone said they hope the slavemasters arent cartoon characters

then discussion turned into well some slavemasters were "nice"/black slavemasters etc

meaning that the desired portrayal must include these "nice" slavemasters because they actually did exist

when others are saying there is no such thing as a "nice" slavemaster and that these "nice" slavemasters were a rare occurrence

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Well speaking on the film, the movie does not have to include nice slave masters (the term slave masters is two words btw).

If you know Nat Turner's story, you can figure out if any nice slave masters figure in the story. Especially when it comes to the part where they revolt and kill a bunch of white ppl. Highly doubt we're gonna be seeing the deaths of nice white ppl caught in the revolt

It was just about depicting the white ppl in the movie for what they were, people. Not 2 dimensional one note caricatures.

Son you just saying a whole bunch of nothing now.


Went all over the place to point out so called "nice" slave owners.

I list several different examples all about the same topic and it's a whole bunch of nothing and all over the place?

Okay.

Maximus Meridius said:

If we agree that the whole thing is wrong then what is your point in tryna bring up these rare scenarios where slave masters were "nice" or "respectful"? All of them can catch the sword.


If a black father is tryna buy his son back of course that ain't wrong. That's a whole different story. You went from saying a slave owner in 12 Years A Slave was nice to a father wanting to free his son. Those are 2 totally different things. Just talking in circles now.

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