Trump advocating universal healthcare

You're not forced to have health insurance and then you get sick and go to the ER, they can't deny you .. guess who paying for it? :rolleyes what you think you just got a medical bill in collections? People selfish as hell
 
This must be Trump's re-up plan in accordance with the Dems that initiated his sabotage and takeover of the Rep party.

First it was just make em look like clowns, never thinking he'd get this far this late in to things. Now that he's thinking he has a chance he's gonna start revealing his democratic ideals and policies :lol: Might make these Trump reporters liberals and they aint even know it.

He did say last week he could shoot somebody on 5th Ave and his supporters would still be loyal. Bet that gives him free reign to be as democratic as he really wants :lol:





Slighted said:
So how would this work? Would people have the choice to be part of universal healthcare?

1.) Lower current healthcare costs
2.) Reduce med school costs
3.) Hire more medical staff

Either way, healthcare is expensive. Good healthcare is even more expensive.
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Seems like even if you declined you'd be paying for it in taxes unless you're state rejects it too.
 
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gamble said:
I believe it's the German system that's set up so that the very rich can opt out if they please. That's really the only scenario where opting out makes sense. Otherwise its idiotic to want to do so. Of course young folks typically need healthcare less than the elderly but just keep living fam.
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heLiumcLinton said:
You're not forced to have health insurance and then you get sick and go to the ER, they can't deny you .. guess who paying for it?
eyes.gif
what you think you just got a medical bill in collections? People selfish as hell
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I agree with both of your points, but let's look at it from a hypothetical view:

For example, if people opt out and then get sick down the line, fair is fair and they have to pay out of their own pockets, no?
 
Slighted said:
Rusty -- is it possible for a healthcare system to exist that can help people who are uninsured + allow everyone to choose whether they want to be part of it?
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Yes.

If you spread out the cost enough.

The complex way:

By deregulating the insurance industry and allowing people to buy plans across state lines, increasing competition. McCain's 2008 Healthcare proposal included this

By having a lower cost public option, giving consumer (citizens and businesses) more options. Obama's original healthcare plan included this

Allowing businesses to group together to negotiate plans, giving them more bargaining power to drive down cost.

Allowing insurance companies to negotiate payments with Medicare, giving insurance companies more bargaining power.

Let Medicare (Medicaid, and the new Public Option agency/whatever) negotiate drug prices.

Let people import drugs from overseas.

Issuing grants for doctors to start their own non profit hospitals, to help alleviate the double marginalization problem.

Undoing the Bush tax cuts for everyone, using that money to help run the public system.

Take preventative care out of the doctors's office. People can and should be able to pay like 150-300 a year (out of pocket) to get a full physical and blood work done. This will lead to less waste, and earlier detection of diseases

*Possible light price controls

If you do all this, is drives the cost of spread out enough, and their will be enough pressure driving down cost.

The moral hazard problem will still be there, but it should be much less, since coverage will be cheaper, that more folk will be willing to come out the pocket for health insurance anyway
 
Trumps plan to pay for all his policies is that the US economy will grow at record rates. Because we all know his tax plan will cause massive deficits
 
trump already has all the idiots conservatives on his side now he's going to win over all the liberals 
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he's out here playing chess while all the other politicians playing checkers 
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I wouldn't mind paying for my insurance if it wasn't such a pain in the *** to get approved for medications I basically depend on or if my plan covered infertility, like son why is it I've paid close to 20k in fertility treatments out of pocket when I pay close to 300$ monthly for medical coverage, HOW SWAY?
 
I'm all for universal coverage but I would be against government ran health insurance covering feritlity treatments.
 
RustyShackleford said:
I'm all for universal coverage but I would be against government ran health insurance covering feritlity treatments.
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ObamaCare covers fertility treatments in some states, up to 60-80% of it.

I'm not asking for the government to cover it, that's a joke itself...if you can't afford to pay for your own insurance, why is a government insurance helping you find a life you can't support?...what I'm asking is employment insurances need to be better....**** is joke.
 
There should be more funds alloted to clinics to help with fertility costs....**** is no joke and it isn't fair, I know for a couple of years clinics were funded by government grants and were able to help couples based on combined income, but those funds ran dry and were never replenished....I don't expect most of you to understand how messed up a situation this is when you are told in order for a chance at conception you have to fork out 15k cash money....infertility needs to be addressed by insurances.
 
Adopt a kid then. Having a child isn't a right. Access to healthcare is. But you don't understand that your emotions always cloud any sort of logic.
 
Who are you guys to dictate what we NEED?...by this logic we don't need anything but O2 to breath....how is procreation NOT a need?...is not about my emotions...infertility is a disease, is not some cosmetic treatment...it's a diagnosed DISEASE and more often than not you are on your own...there should at least be partial coverage for families.

You fools bring up adoption as if that's any cheaper or easier :rofl:

Do me a favor fam, if you don't know **** about it and jut want to take an opportunity to throw shots at me, just don't say anything at all instead of making yourself look like an ***
 
ksteezy said:
RustyShackleford said:
I'm all for universal coverage but I would be against government ran health insurance covering feritlity treatments.
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ObamaCare covers fertility treatments in some states, up to 60-80% of it.

I'm not asking for the government to cover it, that's a joke itself...if you can't afford to pay for your own insurance, why is a government insurance helping you find a life you can't support?...what I'm asking is employment insurances need to be better....**** is joke.
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First off before you read this, Imma need you to make sure your jimmies are fully contained. I'm not typing any of this just to argue, or to shade you, I'm simply going to disagree with you and argue my point.

Ok

-------

First off, let us stop using the term "Obamacare", there is no Obamacare. Obamacare is a nickname for the ACA (or PPACA), used mostly by conservatives as a negative nickname. And it has developed into a colloquial term for the law now, because more people have gotten used to calling it that

Medicaid doesn't cover fertility treatments, Medicare doesn't cover fertility treatments either

"Marketplace" plans, which came into being because of the ACA do apparently, and so do many other plans offered through employers. The major things that differentiate marketplace plans and employer plans is that with marketplace plans, subsidies are direct and as apposed to indirectly as they are with employer provided plans.

So yes, some health insurance plans that are subsidized by the government cover fertility treatments, some don't. But most important, the two major government health insurance programs DON"T.

All working people get a subsidy for the health insurance, including you. So don't even imply that the government is treating you unfairly unfairly because you don't get that service in the plan you employer provided to you. Be mad at your employer then

-------

Now this might be tough, but gamble is right, you don't need a child. But most importantly, society doesn't need you to have one

The government, and taxpayers, shouldn't prioritize paying for you and your wife trying over and over. Sorry, I got a soft heart, but there are much more pressing public health issues out there than fertility treatments

It is not a emergency treatment, it is not a mandatory treatment, it is a voluntary one. And of all the "voluntary" treatments the government can and should cover, fertility treatments are still lower on the list.

If we as a nation is going to spread out the cost, and providing universal coverage, we have to consider that the money pool is not infinite. There are so many more important health programs I can think of that would be more pressing fertility. We have a heroin epidemic raging right now, HPV is bumping up cancer diagnosis, Truvada might be the key to reducing HIV infections, asthma medicine for be breaking parents. All these things probably should be put over fertility procedures.

Maybe if we can get cost low enough, and get everyone covered, then we can look at covering the more voluntary stuff. Even then, I might not be wit couples trying over and over again. Maybe folk just one shot. I'm always down with stretching the margin on things like these. But once again, the thing is that it is not high priority to society to behind with

I'm not trying to be cold blooded, I understand your situation, and how hard it has been. But you have another option, that you and you wife and unwilling to explore. Yet you are outraged that the government won't pay/subsidize for you guys to try IVF over and over.

I would be supportive of plenty of stuff to help couples like you

-Offering low interest, long payment option,loans to pay for IVF
-Private donations to non profits that they could offer these services to folk
-Tax breaks for clinic that offer the service at lower cost
-A larger tax break for couples that had fertility problems, and chose to adopt
-And I'm all for state, local and private plans offering the services

Hell, if you put up a go fund me I will happily throw in some money to help.

But I don't think federal dollars should be going to this right now. There are much more pressing issuing in the health care sector.

---------

Lastly, gloves off for a second. Stop with the "I paid so much out of pocket......" steez. We know for a fact you have bought clothes, shoes, and went on vacation during that time. You had your wife stop working during that time. These were choices you made. So stop acting like you been getting such a raw deal from the system

Add most importantly, you did get some government assistance for IVF, for over 10K already.

Peep the OP, in the thread you made.

http://niketalk.com/t/582010/hey-guys-we-are-starting-ivf-trying-to-join-the-nt-dads-club

decided against it, did more research and i found out there are government grants clinics were given to help couples who met the criteria....something a clinic wont tell you to stash their money eyes.gif

anyways, i brought this up and they had us apply and we were approved, so the 15k came down to 5k smokin.gif and we took the plunge
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I'm not trying to attack you with any of this. But please keep your emotions in check, and stop acting like you're getting a raw deal because the system is not set up in your favor on this issue
 
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I had over 250k in medical bills with insurance.

Insurance company put a lien against me for 54k.

I'm not mad to be honest, this is common if you don't know btw. Btw my insurance was VERY good. I can't imagine if I had crappy insurance when this happened or even worse none at all.

Right now I'm on Connect Care Husky plan and pay zero because I'm unemployed.
 
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bro that's crazy man. My stuff just got paid no problem and it was more than that. I had insurance through the state at the time.
 
Bro I'm not disagreeing with you AT ALL, like I said I don't want Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare or whatever other federal program is in place to help uninsured citizens to cover IVF costs....that's ridiculous, even though like I said some states do cover it, at least partially....I feel if you can't afford insurance you have no reason to want a child...that's simple math.

Now of course I'm livid with my employer and my BS plan, but there is nothing I can do about it, I'm not gonna quit my job...is my livelihood...but is unfortunate that IVF is something a lot of employer based insurances wipe their hands clean off....what I think the government can do is put grants in place like they used to, don't ignore what's become more common than you think, infertility is a serious issue and ya can all shrug it off, but imagine the day we are all infertile?...

Grants, low interest loans, write offs for clinics, some sort of government based prescription coverage for fertility drugs, these are the things in my opinion should be place forth...have criterias in place and give people a chance to qualify...our first round was partially covered by a government grant...so for the actual procedure I paid 5k but then close to 7k in drugs which there was no coverage for....our second round ran us about 12k total...

I understand is hard for you guys to put yourselves in my shoes because well, having a child is something that often comes so easy that you guys think simply when you want a kid, you'll have one....for you it may not be a "need" but please don't tell me I don't "need" to have a child...that's unfair.
 
Slighted said:
I agree with both of your points, but let's look at it from a hypothetical view:

For example, if people opt out and then get sick down the line, fair is fair and they have to pay out of their own pockets, no?
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what you mean though? if you go into a ER bleeding profusely you advocating them saying? "sorry sir you don't have insurance figure it out" that goes against ethics

even if you got billed and have to pay out pocket lets be serious no one is paying a 20K out of pocket, but guess who paid for your immediate medical assistance?
 
-41- said:
I wouldn't mind paying the $300 a month no problem if, i got it all back or at least half of what i paid if i didn't use my insurance plan that year. They already tax the **** out of me in federal taxes. I'm not trying to pay an extra $3600.
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I'm assuming you feel the same about all insurances across the board?
 
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I'm hoping once my wife graduates she can get in with the BOE, they cover up to 3 rounds of Invitro....that's pretty sweet....till then we decided to not dig ourselves deeper in debt over this....just gonna try to have drunken wild sex at least once a week :lol:
 
ksteezy said:
Bro I'm not disagreeing with you AT ALL, like I said I don't want Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare or whatever other federal program is in place to help uninsured citizens to cover IVF costs....that's ridiculous, even though like I said some states do cover it, at least partially....I feel if you can't afford insurance you have no reason to want a child...that's simple math.

Now of course I'm livid with my employer and my BS plan, but there is nothing I can do about it, I'm not gonna quit my job...is my livelihood...but is unfortunate that IVF is something a lot of employer based insurances wipe their hands clean off....what I think the government can do is put grants in place like they used to, don't ignore what's become more common than you think, infertility is a serious issue and ya can all shrug it off, but imagine the day we are all infertile?...

Grants, low interest loans, write offs for clinics, some sort of government based prescription coverage for fertility drugs, these are the things in my opinion should be place forth...have criterias in place and give people a chance to qualify...our first round was partially covered by a government grant...so for the actual procedure I paid 5k but then close to 7k in drugs which there was no coverage for....our second round ran us about 12k total...

I understand is hard for you guys to put yourselves in my shoes because well, having a child is something that often comes so easy that you guys think simply when you want a kid, you'll have one....for you it may not be a "need" but please don't tell me I don't "need" to have a child...that's unfair.
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You're employer plan is subsidized with federal tax dollars though, a lot of tax dollars.

All those grants are subsidized with tax dollars also. And if infertility became a public health crisis, then of course things change. But it is not right

I think it is fair for dudes to say "I don't it we need to be using tax dollars to cover this, these couple have other options, lets tackle these issues first"

Because if you're asking for the next man's tax money to be used on something, they have the right to question it.

I sympathize with you position, but still
 
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