Official Programming & Development Thread Vol. ASP.NET, C/C#/C++, HTML, Java, Etc.

[capital sb]

Lucky I agree. Can't do one of these bootcamps and think you are going to land a 65K+ job right after.
Do you think a bootcamp can get you through a technical interview? Do bootcamps prepare you to do software design?

If you are serious about getting into this field pick up the "Cracking the Coding Interview" book. This is pretty much a bible to prepare people for technical software interviews. Use it to gauge and assess your skills.

Here's an example of questions asked during technical interviews.
 

 

[luckyluchiano]

And I`m not trying to derail the thread, I`m just letting dudes know its real in the field, and I rather not have dudes make the same mistakes Me and others made ON TOP of letting dudes know the current state of the industry in general as most of the basic projects that would get guys experience are being outsourced, so chances are you may have to do some free work to get experience OR get into some type of recent grad development program/internship. Many small companies outsource their programming overseas, which is why I said you dont need to know a lick of code to start your own tech company. Literally you provide the vision/business specs and you can get someone overseas to code it for you for pennies on the dollar. Like I said code camps and stuff are cool to get your feet wet to see if this is what you want to do, but they damn sure enough to come out of it and call yourself an actual "programmer"

 

[johnnyredstorm]

How does coding factor into starting a drone business?

 

[luckyluchiano]

How does coding factor into starting a drone business?

probably algorithms and stuff needed for how the drone will operate under specific conditions.

 

[shimmyhendrix]

In 

Bachelors in CS

Currently a Junior Software Developer

Java, JavaScript,  some C++, Learning AngularJS,

ExtJS, GWT, Spring, Hibernate

Maven, Gradle

MySQL, DB2, H2

Websphere, Weblogic, Tomcat, Jetty

Oracle Coherence

Still pretty new in the game, 1.5 years

I recommend Pluralsight for learning, especially for those just starting out.  Very complete courses, very deep catalogue.  Courses range from super beginner to super advanced.  Price isnt bad, and the courses and exercise files can be had by other means 

if needed

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

probably algorithms and stuff needed for how the drone will operate under specific conditions.

And I`m not trying to derail the thread, I`m just letting dudes know its real in the field, and I rather not have dudes make the same mistakes Me and others made ON TOP of letting dudes know the current state of the industry in general as most of the basic projects that would get guys experience are being outsourced, so chances are you may have to do some free work to get experience OR get into some type of recent grad development program/internship. Many small companies outsource their programming overseas, which is why I said you dont need to know a lick of code to start your own tech company. Literally you provide the vision/business specs and you can get someone overseas to code it for you for pennies on the dollar. Like I said code camps and stuff are cool to get your feet wet to see if this is what you want to do, but they damn sure enough to come out of it and call yourself an actual "programmer"

Mark Cuban was mentioned because he himself picked up programming later in his career and did something great with it. Can we just keep this thread about programming and coding and providing information/ guidance to those who might be interested in starting? No need for "dose of reality" posts. Nobody in here can predict what may or may not happen with a person's career in here. And yes there is an SDK for a collision avoidance sensor package for DJI Matrice 100 UAV, but that's not why I'm getting into coding. I'll be developing an app for use in the DoD/Intel communities that pretty much automates what I had to do "manually" when I was in. There's a big push for apps, as a matter of fact my agency had a huge lab dedicated to testing of iOS platforms in the field. I still have contacts there and what I'm going to create hasn't been done yet.

 

[luckyluchiano]

Mark Cuban was mentioned because he himself picked up programming later in his career and did something great with it. Can we just keep this thread about programming and coding and providing information/ guidance to those who might be interested in starting? No need for "dose of reality" posts. Nobody in here can predict what may or may not happen with a person's career in here. And yes there is an SDK for a collision avoidance sensor package for DJI Matrice 100 UAV, but that's not why I'm getting into coding. I'll be developing an app for use in the DoD/Intel communities that pretty much automates what I had to do "manually" when I was in. There's a big push for apps, as a matter of fact my agency had a huge lab dedicated to testing of iOS platforms in the field. I still have contacts there and what I'm going to create hasn't been done yet.

lol I just want to know why setting expectations is an issue? If thats the case I`ll just stick to the IT thread. Best of luck.

 

[4318michaeljohnson4318]

I don't get why you guys are talking down on bootcamps. Many top languages aren't taught in depth in academia. Ruby/Rails, PHP, Modern JS frameworks (client or server side) can get you a paying job with out a degree. Obviously depends on the quality but bootcamps have been a part of IT for a while just look at the MS cert bootcamps.

 

[Mark Antony]

Dipped out of programming in college at c++, but I wanna learn a bit again. Worlds changing with a lot of SaaS, AWS, cloud etc.


Wait, what exactly is wrong with bootcamps? a focused course over a few days vs a spread out semester. If you have the knowledge, you have the knowledge. You guys must be thinking of knowledge dumps, which you can't really do for programming. Sounds a lot like a bit of envy from the guys who sat through college courses, which is unneccessary. Matter of fact you start a job that requires you to learn a new language, they will put you through a boot camp. I actually I would have grasped it much better in one of those than in college.

 

[luckyluchiano]

Dipped out of programming in college at c++, but I wanna learn a bit again. Worlds changing with a lot of SaaS, AWS, cloud etc.


Wait, what exactly is wrong with bootcamps? a focused course over a few days vs a spread out semester. If you have the knowledge, you have the knowledge. You guys must be thinking of knowledge dumps, which you can't really do for programming. Sounds a lot like a bit of envy from the guys who sat through college courses, which is unneccessary. Matter of fact you start a job that requires you to learn a new language, they will put you through a boot camp. I actually I would have grasped it much better in one of those than in college.

bootcamps doesnt = Now your a skilled programmer.

Once again, Experience Trumps ALL. This isn't 1995 where all you need is a HS Diploma and a few certs and you will get an entry level gig and be good money because the industry is so underpopulated.


My question is how many of you are actually in the industry? Because if you were you would understand a HUGE chunk of the entry level jobs are being filled by h1B employees who will work for half the cost of a US citizen or 2. being outsourced overseas.

Companies are trimming the fat in their companies, where most of the "hot jobs" require a TON of experience, being that only a few people have the experience and the entry level jobs dont exist anymore for people to get experience in mass.

Bootcamps get your feet wet, and certs are only gate keepers, only people who think otherwise are people not in the industry.

Avg entry level programmer job is asking for 2-3 yrs experience lol. And like I said before if your goal is an entrepreneur you can outsource the coding part of what you need to do for less than the amount you will spend paying for some of these bootcamps.

Either way get it how you live.

 

[Mark Antony]

I get what ya'll are saying, experience trumps all, even a degree. But for that initial introduction to the language, nothing wrong with a bootcamp as long as your expectations are set correctly.

 

[luckyluchiano]

I get what ya'll are saying, experience trumps all, even a degree. But for that initial introduction to the language, nothing wrong with a bootcamp as long as your expectations are set correctly.

which is what my comments are trying to do.

 

[Based Jesus]

Bootcamps will not make you a good programmer. A few online courses will not make you a good programmer. College will not make you a good programmer. Like anything else in life, practice and experience will. Yall arguing over nothing.

 

[Belgium]

Subscribed

 

[polymerase]

I feel like anyone can learn to code, its just a different language, and bootcamps and online courses help you expedite the process. A lot of people are getting into it because of all the advertisements that say "IN 10 WEEKS YOU CAN MAKE 108K AVERAGE SALARY". But in my opinion it takes a certain type of person to make programming their career. You have to really want to learn constantly and not think "Well, now that I learned how to code I can just sit back and collect my paycheck". You probably might get an entry level position at a company, but how far you progress really depends on you and how well that company teaches you. 

I can't speak for how mentorship is in a large company (where you only really have one job function), but working as a full stack person and having to do so many different things within a smaller company, I think its very important to have a good mentor to help you advance. Coding on a small scale level in your home and making a simple todo list app and deploying it to heroku isn't complex, if you go through any coding tutorials with 0 prior knowledge you can have it up and running in a couple of hours. But once you start working on something bigger, its extremely difficult to learn all by yourself because there are so many components to making a scaleable system. 

Also I think having to be good at math really depends on what you're doing. Right now there are so many front end positions available that really just care about the frameworks React/Ember (Angular seems to be dying down since 2.0 hasn't released yet), so you don't even really need to learn the fundamentals of computer science, you just have to learn how to use those tools. The danger of that though is that these frameworks have short life cycles so unless you understand JavaScript very well, you're gonna be scrambling to learn a new framework and be out of a job.

TLDR:

Anyone can code.

You might get a job, but you might not be able to make it a career.

Currently math isn't super important if you do front end work only.

If you are interested in computer science principles and basics of how to do web development: https://cs50.harvard.edu/

Stuff I know:

Python/Django/Flask, Ruby/Rails, C, Go, JavaScript, HTML5/CSS3, and a bunch of random devops stuff like Ansible and AWS.

 

[capital sb]

I'm not arguing or posting anything off topic not sure if that was directed towards me @Yeah

All I am saying is know what to expect when it comes time for interviews.

Which is why I posted the example interview and Cracking the Coding Interview book.

These are tools me and my peers used when we started interviewing heavy during our senior year.

@Yeah  add Sublime Text 3 to the IDE list.

 

[luckyluchiano]

Exactly. And anyone "in the industry" will tell you that even programmers with experience can be lacking, that's why consultants exist.

I reported a bunch of the posts because they're off topic, and I'm going to report this one to request it be deleted as well. Yall are ridiculous.

meh, Consultants are not programmers and tend to focus on strategic business decisions not coaching "entry level programmers", so I assume you mean SMEs on a team or something.

Either way expectations need to be set for anyone looking to get into something point blank, and I dont think anyone in this thread is arguing, more so giving advice to the few dudes saying they were looking to get into programming. "Learning to Code" is the easy part.

 

[lewshus75]

 
Lucky I agree. Can't do one of these bootcamps and think you are going to land a 65K+ job right after.
Do you think a bootcamp can get you through a technical interview? Do bootcamps prepare you to do software design?

If you are serious about getting into this field pick up the "Cracking the Coding Interview" book. This is pretty much a bible to prepare people for technical software interviews. Use it to gauge and assess your skills.

Here's an example of questions asked during technical interviews.
 

Ive been a programmer for 18 years and 4 different jobs.   Ive never had an interview like this.

 

[lewshus75]

I don't get why you guys are talking down on bootcamps. Many top languages aren't taught in depth in academia. Ruby/Rails, PHP, Modern JS frameworks (client or server side) can get you a paying job with out a degree. Obviously depends on the quality but bootcamps have been a part of IT for a while just look at the MS cert bootcamps.

exactly.  School teach alot of the main languages.  But when you get into the "niche" areas you have to find some kind of tutorial or bootcamp because they just arent taught in schools.

 

[capital sb]

 
Ive been a programmer for 18 years and 4 different jobs.   Ive never had an interview like this.

Things have changed a lot over the years they only do these weed out interviews for entry level. I have had multiple interviews like this (graduated 2014), they only do this nonsense for entry level jobs. Once you get about 3-5 years of experience and start interviewing for mid level positions these kind of interviews don't happen, unless its Google, FB, Apple, etc.

Since this thread is about people trying to get their foot in the software world, this is what they will experience for entry level position interviews.

 

[luckyluchiano]

Things have changed a lot over the years they only do these weed out interviews for entry level. I have had multiple interviews like this (graduated 2014), they only do this nonsense for entry level jobs. Once you get about 3-5 years of experience and start interviewing for mid level positions these kind of interviews don't happen, unless its Google, FB, Apple, etc.

Since this thread is about people trying to get their foot in the software world, this is what they will experience for entry level position interviews.

After about 5 yrs experience your resume tends to speak for itself.

I said before the best way to avoid headache is getting your foot into the door via an internship that transforms into a full time offer/role or a graduate development program.

Like I said before learning to code is the easy part, I think after 1-2 yrs of doing projects and going through the entire SDLC, that is what beefs you up to have stuff to actually talk about, and sharpen your swords to know how to handle/ approach various scenarios.

I've worked with numerous Entry Level programmers who had no experience outside of school and the 6 month development program at my old job, and I was a BA but still had to help them in regard to the stuff they dont teach you in a classroom.

 

[shimmyhendrix]

 

Things have changed a lot over the years they only do these weed out interviews for entry level. I have had multiple interviews like this (graduated 2014), they only do this nonsense for entry level jobs. Once you get about 3-5 years of experience and start interviewing for mid level positions these kind of interviews don't happen, unless its Google, FB, Apple, etc.

Since this thread is about people trying to get their foot in the software world, this is what they will experience for entry level position interviews.

After about 5 yrs experience your resume tends to speak for itself.

I said before the best way to avoid headache is getting your foot into the door via an internship that transforms into a full time offer/role or a graduate development program.

Like I said before learning to code is the easy part, I think after 1-2 yrs of doing projects and going through the entire SDLC, that is what beefs you up to have stuff to actually talk about, and sharpen your swords to know how to handle/ approach various scenarios.

I've worked with numerous Entry Level programmers who had no experience outside of school and the 6 month development program at my old job, and I was a BA but still had to help them in regard to the stuff they dont teach you in a classroom.

I can agree with this.  I came outta school with no experience other than coursework, and it was like starting from scratch.  The first thing they did was put me on some beginner online courses before I even touched any real work.  And that was just to bring me up to a level where I could start to catch on to what was going on 

I've been in the industry for over a year and a half and still feel like I know nothing compared to even the mid-level dudes on my team.  The amount of stuff I have learned on the job is outrageous and i'm still a newbie lol.  

Hands-on is the only way to really get into it.  Every company has a different stack, different practices, etc.  The key is learning the basic principals.  Once you have a firm grasp on the basic principals, the syntax and design patterns of different languages and frameworks are easy to pick up.

The hardest part is getting a foot in the door.  Once you are in, you will be fine as long as you can pick up quickly and push yourself to learn.  There are so many technologies that you will never be ahead of the learning curve honestly.  Thats why alot of people dont stay in the field.  You have to constantly sharpen your skills to stay valuable in software development.

I cant wait until I get to that 5 year + experience level where I dont have to feel so insecure at times lol.  Right now I feel that if I lost my job it would be crazy hard trying to get into another position. Most of the openings nowadays are for 5+ year experience.  Companies arent trying to deal with the entry-level cats like that 

 

[truth-serum]

So you dudes are stating a CS degree is not required in order to have a career coding?

 

[luckyluchiano]

I can agree with this.  I came outta school with no experience other than coursework, and it was like starting from scratch.  The first thing they did was put me on some beginner online courses before I even touched any real work.  And that was just to bring me up to a level where I could start to catch on to what was going on 

I've been in the industry for over a year and a half and still feel like I know nothing compared to even the mid-level dudes on my team.  The amount of stuff I have learned on the job is outrageous and i'm still a newbie lol.  

Hands-on is the only way to really get into it.  Every company has a different stack, different practices, etc.  The key is learning the basic principals.  Once you have a firm grasp on the basic principals, the syntax and design patterns of different languages and frameworks are easy to pick up.

The hardest part is getting a foot in the door.  Once you are in, you will be fine as long as you can pick up quickly and push yourself to learn.  There are so many technologies that you will never be ahead of the learning curve honestly.  Thats why alot of people dont stay in the field.  You have to constantly sharpen your skills to stay valuable in software development.

I cant wait until I get to that 5 year + experience level where I dont have to feel so insecure at times lol.  Right now I feel that if I lost my job it would be crazy hard trying to get into another position. Most of the openings nowadays are for 5+ year experience.  Companies arent trying to deal with the entry-level cats like that 

Yup this is why i STRESS setting expectations, lol you will feel sick to your stomach when you reallize all the work you put in in college was only a gatekeeper because once you step foot in your first real job they will have to mold you into what they want anyways.

Biggest thing is real world will humble you because even though you THOUGHt You were that dude in undergrad you havent done anything real yet and its impossible to know everything so you then have to learn how to work SMART not hard.

 

[luckyluchiano]

So you dudes are stating a CS degree is not required in order to have a career coding?

This aint 1994 lol, even dor jobs like help desk they prefer degrees, but you arent getting a software develop gig whether your a BA,PM, or programmer without a degree.