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Why be Moral?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
I had a lot typed (wall of text literally) out and this might be waaaaaay to vague but I decided to delete it.


Just want to have a discussion, maybe it can develop and ill throw in what I am getting at.

BTW no I dont mean taking a humans life either or hurting someone. It is def money related though. "If you could you would." maybe....

How many of you feelwe live in a Moral World and followed the path we are taught? Probb a dumb question but many at the upper class of things and higher def arent moral.

I want a discussion to develop just a lot ive been thinking about as of late.....

I guess this is Philosophy
post #2 of 29
I have no idea what you are saying man laugh.gif


But I try to follow my life based on the morals taught by my religion, although I'm no saint by any means
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post #3 of 29
It's a social contract with each other to form a better functioning society. Not all ppl agree to every single clause in it though.

Very few ppl see things as strictly black or white and subscribe to a Kantian approach to morality; if it's wrong you never do it no matter what.

I feel most ppl are egoists (pursuing their own self interest at all times) and fool themselves in to thinking they're something else; utilitarian, altruistic, etc.

I wouldn't say we live in a moral world but most ppl feel we live in a world that ought to be a moral world and that's probably where the disconnect lies. People pretending it's one way when it isn't instead of striving specifically for the goal (that's where some of the "It's 2016…." stuff doesn't apply).

Ppl start following the moral values they are taught but your experiences and how you process it is what really determines if you are moral. Not to mention amorality is also an option not just moral or immoral.

As far as relating this to money and not more serious hypotheticals. A bank robber drops a bag of hundreds, you take it and keep it is that wrong? Can you rationalize it in to being right because of what you will do with the money also keeping in mind the bank is insured? Does it even matter if it's right or wrong?
post #4 of 29
why live?

also, you question kinda falls on the realm of whether or not we have free will...

hmmmm...
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post #5 of 29
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post #6 of 29
Peace of mind > poor morals + money etc

A lot of the rich probably did shady **** to get where they're at though
post #7 of 29
If I beat u in basketball, was i immoral? We did agree to compete, right? I'm supposed to try to win. Or are you talking about cheating?
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post #8 of 29

Just have a balance with the universe. Everyone has a place in the universe. If you have to ask why, then it means you're not being true to yourself.

post #9 of 29
It just feels better.
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post #10 of 29
"For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but forfeits his own soul?"

My belief: we are not all "the same". The world is run by those that look like us, but aren't us. They never had a soul to sell. When we start trying to act like them, we lose what make us, us. And no this isn't coded racism.

If we all lean the same way, things become unbalanced as they are now. It's difficult to find opposing behavior to what has become the norm now. I'm moral, because it's who I am. Have I done immoral things? Of course, but I've never strayed too far for too long.
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post #11 of 29
Morality is such a relative thing man.

Am I immoral for selling drugs if I am unable to get a job but I have starving children at home?

Are boxers/mma dudes immoral because the damage done to their opponents can cause long term brain damage? What about football players?
post #12 of 29

The question itself is entirely too broad, and I can only speak for myself.

 

I choose to live morally because I have the ability to put myself in the shoes of others.  It's the reason I chose to work in healthcare.  I know I'd want a good, moral person caring for me if I was ill.  I feel obligated to act in a caring, compassionate way to others because I realize that they are no more or less special/important than I am.

 

The basis of all morality is empathy...and empathy is guided by reason, not faith.  Morality does not hinge upon religiosity/spirituality/belief in a higher power. 

post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brolic Scholar View Post

"For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but forfeits his own soul?"

My belief: we are not all "the same". The world is run by those that look like us, but aren't us. They never had a soul to sell. When we start trying to act like them, we lose what make us, us. And no this isn't coded racism.

If we all lean the same way, things become unbalanced as they are now. It's difficult to find opposing behavior to what has become the norm now. I'm moral, because it's who I am. Have I done immoral things? Of course, but I've never strayed too far for too long.
What about the ppl that do not believe in souls and that other stuff? Are they the ones that "aren't us"?

I'm trying to figure who is the "them" in this "us" viewpoint you have.
post #14 of 29
I don't think we live in a world driven by morals. I believe we live in a world driven by interests, and while it is often in one's best interest to act morally, people will invariably act to preserve their interests... regardless of their moral character.

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post #15 of 29

Case by case

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post #16 of 29
I just try to be cool.

For example at work, I don't have to worry about layoffs because you don't get laid off as an apprentice, unless you're REALLY bad. But I know that when times slow down, brothers will screw each other over to stay working. That's not right and I will NEVER stoop to that level. I will however do my best to stay on. If the other guy does 500ft of pipe, I'm gonna run 600. If he needs a hand, I will help him.

I gotta be the change I wanna see.
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post #17 of 29

Morality evolved for the greater good of the species. If murder were ok, that puts my life in danger. Do you know how anxiety provoking that would be?

Deus est mortuus, logica obtinet.

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post #18 of 29
I think he's more concerned on why be moral in the micro sense not the macro sense. Not that the two aren't connected.
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Zik View Post

I think he's more concerned on why be moral in the micro sense not the macro sense. Not that the two aren't connected.


In the micro-sense it becomes a cost benefit analysis. The cost of losing your freedom vs. what's to be gained by committing crime.

 

 

 

This is too complex a topic because people have different motives for "immorality". But if we're talking simple stuff like stealing, killing, extortion, etc

 

 

 

Yes they are both connected. 

Deus est mortuus, logica obtinet.

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Deus est mortuus, logica obtinet.

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post #20 of 29
what did you do OP?
post #21 of 29
He brought up money. So I kept out the big stuff like killing. I think he even mentioned it's not about killing.

So if it's money, I just thought about stealing, cheating ppl and scenarios where you wouldn't be caught. To me I thought he was wondering if the factor of risk wasn't in play why be moral? and place on one individual in a situation not make it something that can be witnessed and then copied and then everybody is doing it.

It's those small moments you know?
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Zik View Post

What about the ppl that do not believe in souls and that other stuff? Are they the ones that "aren't us"?

I'm trying to figure who is the "them" in this "us" viewpoint you have.

Us = most people that do mostly good and aren't out strictly in the pursuit of power and wealth over all else, no matter the cost to others. Those people have souls imo, whether or not they are spiritual, religious or care about that sort of stuff.

Them = serial killers, child molesters, people that turn humans against humans, manipulators, war mongers, enslavers, etc. They are fully aware that they aren't like the others and hate or only use people to satisfy their wants.

I believe that people with souls can be manipulated and/or seduced into thinking they can be like soulless beings and in the end have a lot of regret.
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post #23 of 29

because god tells me that i should be moral 

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post #24 of 29

Following the rules rarely gets you what you want....

What I hate is that small percentage of ppl that actually do follow the rules and get their way & act like anybody can do it...

This life **** mad tricky....All I can tell you is stay on your toes, you'd be surprised on who's waiting for you to slip up

post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeester View Post
 

Following the rules rarely gets you what you want....

What I hate is that small percentage of ppl that actually do follow the rules and get their way & act like anybody can do it...

This life **** mad tricky....All I can tell you is stay on your toes, you'd be surprised on who's waiting for you to slip up

if more people understood how the rules work they would find life easier 

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post #26 of 29
tbh though, when it comes to anger, morals are out. I'm talking like, someone hurts my family type of deal.
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post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea manup View Post
 

if more people understood how the rules work they would find life easier 

 

Honestly man the rules change from individual to individual...No two ppl are treated alike in this world of ours

We can go even further into it and start comparing races, but nah we not gon turn this into one of those threads....

post #28 of 29

At the end of the day I'm sure we've all come to the conclusion on life not being fair, so why not rig it to your advantage while you can? If you can? 

Peep history, Chris Rock spoke on it in one of his standups on how the rules change once ppl who did it first have already accumulated some type of wealth...All these wealthy families in the world started out as nothing more than criminals when you break it down...bootleggers, slave trade, etc...fast forward to the future when others(People of color) want to come up and make a name for themselves and build wealth for their families and all of a sudden you see ppl going to prison for the remainder of their lives and watching families crumble because of it. 

post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brolic Scholar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Zik View Post

What about the ppl that do not believe in souls and that other stuff? Are they the ones that "aren't us"?

I'm trying to figure who is the "them" in this "us" viewpoint you have.

Us = most people that do mostly good and aren't out strictly in the pursuit of power and wealth over all else, no matter the cost to others. Those people have souls imo, whether or not they are spiritual, religious or care about that sort of stuff.

Them = serial killers, child molesters, people that turn humans against humans, manipulators, war mongers, enslavers, etc. They are fully aware that they aren't like the others and hate or only use people to satisfy their wants.

I believe that people with souls can be manipulated and/or seduced into thinking they can be like soulless beings and in the end have a lot of regret.
Ok going with this frame work, you gotta know the us greatly outnumbers the them. Take out the clear sick in the head criminals (pedophiles, enslavers) and those that lack a conscience or most emotions (sociopaths, psychopaths/serial killers) the rest tend to end up in positions of power (manipulators, war mongers, etc.)

Still unclear what this soul entails of but it kinda makes sense that if you approach things with logic how the "us" can be convinced by the "them" before you even get to manipulating their emotions when it comes to a philosophical viewpoint on morality. It's really just about how you view society and where it's going and what you decide your role is when interacting with them.
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