Man captures his own shooting while recording video for FaceBook. *WARNING GRAPHIC*

can i ask a question?

if what you say is true, that black communities lack the capital to fix their neighborhoods, better their schools and create opportunities for the youth.

where should/can the capital come from to remedy these issues?

serious question.


From American taxpayers. Especially CORPORATIONS.


More money needs to go towards education initiatives and infrastructure. Not only in Chicago but in many inner-cities in America we need to invest in these neighborhoods.


You see, when gentrification occurs, it takes away literally billions of dollars away from these neighborhoods. If corporations are going to move into these neighborhoods they need to hire locals and pay them LIVABLE wages.
 
In addition it would be nice if we spent less federal dollars on the military complex and more on job creation and education.
 
From American taxpayers. Especially CORPORATIONS.

ok. thats the end game.

how do we start this process?

In addition it would be nice if we spent less federal dollars on the military complex and more on job creation and education.

agreed, it would be nice.

how do we start this process?


You see, when gentrification occurs, it takes away literally billions of dollars away from these neighborhoods. If corporations are going to move into these neighborhoods they need to hire locals and pay them LIVABLE wages.

you keep saying this as if someone disagrees with this.
the disagreement comes from how to fix it.
 
ok. thats the end game.

how do we start this process?


agreed, it would be nice.

how do we start this process?



you keep saying this as if someone disagrees with this.
the disagreement comes from how to fix it.


It starts with voting in the right public officials, all the way up from our president, down to state and city officials.


Again, I'm not from Chicago, I'm from NY and live in AZ. I know however that Rahm Emanuel needs to go. There is no limit on terms in Chicago, the only city in the US without term limits. Illinois is one of 13 US states without term limits.


There needs to be a limit on official terms. If an official inept, then he needs to go. The black community in Chicago vehemently disapproves of Emanuel. A good start would be getting him out of office.


Once we have the right officials in office, deals need to be struck with corporations. If you're a big box corporation moving into a disadvantaged community a certain percent of profits needs to go into improving the community, training/advancement, tuition reimbursement, etc.


On a federal level, Americans tax-dollars need to go back into these inner-cities. On a federal level the right politicians and the right policies, such as marijuana decriminalization, rehabilitation in lieu of lengthy prison sentences for non-violent offenders, MORE rehabilitation for violent-offenders with an emphasis on job training so that these young men who made the wrong choices can make better ones when they get out.
 
Great article on how Los Angeles has made strides to curb violence. While violence is still prevalent in LA, a lot of positive change has been achieved.

Los Angeles to Chicago: What we did to combat murder and violence


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ack-lives-perspec-0709-jm-20150708-story.html

The nightly gunfire sounded like a free-fire zone in Baghdad. Even youngsters were sometimes caught in the crossfire. During one bloody stretch, the year 2002, more than 1,200 persons filled the morgue from gunshots. And in one neighborhood the shooting gallery racked up a scorecard of murders six times the national average.

I'm not talking about the murder carnage that is wracking some neighborhoods on Chicago's South and West sides. The battlefield I just described happened in and around the mostly black South Los Angeles and other nearby predominantly minority neighborhoods. It happened between 2002 and 2004, when Los Angeles came extremely close to winning the nation's hideous murder-capital crown.

The agony of those nightmarish years returns each time I see a screaming headline that essentially says, "Chicago hit by another weekend of murder carnage." It's especially troubling to see a news story punctuated by heartbreaking pictures of an angelic-looking schoolboy or girl gunned down in the madcap violence. I take their deaths personally. Chicago was once my hometown. I played on its streets, and attended elementary and high schools on the South Side, where too many kids are being gunned down.

I recounted the gory body count in Los Angeles, where I now live, for a reason. It lets me tell what I, and other concerned community activists and local civil rights leaders, did about it.

We recognized that screaming for more police, prosecutors and draconian jail sentences wouldn't stop the mayhem. It would take an angered, fearless and proactive community effort. We launched a broad campaign that we called "Get the Killers Off the Streets." We prodded family members, friends and relatives of young men and women gunned down to stand with us in a series of roving neighborhood candlelight vigils and marches. We circulated fliers with a hotline number that witnesses could call to provide information and remain anonymous. We asked callers to provide license plate numbers and car descriptions and, in some cases, to name names.

This information was passed on in confidence to police liaison officials. We knew that getting people, many of whom had information, to shed their fear of retaliation and provide information anonymously was key to making a dent in curbing the violence. In more than a few cases, this resulted in quick arrests.

Next, we worked hard to build community support for a CeaseFire coalition made up of former gang members and community activists. They brokered tenuous truces between warring gang factions. The instant a shooting occurred, the members would gather at the scene to talk with the gang members who called the shots and the violence-prone young men in the area. The aim was to squash any move toward retaliation for the shooting and to tap down rumors of more attacks. We continued to hound city officials to expand the city's gang monitoring and anti-violence network. The network also included former gang members who would attend dialogue sessions with gang members who were assured that their names and faces would not wind up on another police surveillance or profile sheet.

We relentlessly challenged local officials to take a hard look at the deeper reasons for the black-on-black carnage. Despite the pet theories of liberals and conservatives, blacks aren't killing each other because they are violent or crime-prone by nature, or solely because they are poor and oppressed. Or even because they are acting out the obscene and lewd violence they see and hear on TV, films and in gangsta rap lyrics.

The violence results from a combustible blend of cultural and racial baggage many blacks carry. In the past, crimes committed by blacks against other blacks were often ignored or lightly punished. The implicit message was that black lives didn't matter. This perceived devaluation of black lives has encouraged disrespect for the law and has forced many blacks to internalize anger and displace aggression onto others, almost always those perceived as weaker and more vulnerable.

We knew that far too many young black males have become especially adept at acting out their frustrations at white society's denial of their "manhood" by adopting an exaggerated "tough guy" role. They swagger, boast, curse, fight and commit violent, self-destructive acts.

With that in mind, we challenged city officials, educators, health professionals, drug counselors, violence prevention specialists and gang-intervention activists, to devise and coordinate short- and long-term strategies and programs to expand recreation programs, increase spending on job and skills, training and at-risk mentoring programs. More people signed on to this approach than expected, and positive results were soon evident. The murder rate in South LA plunged dramatically, and it has stayed down. Just knowing that our efforts spared a family from grieving over the murder of a son or a daughter made all of our efforts worth it. It's worth it in Chicago too.

Earl Ofari Hutchinson is a political analyst and co-host of "The Al Sharpton Show" on American Urban Radio Network. He is the author of "How Obama Governed: The Year of Crisis and Challenge."
 
It starts with voting in the right public officials, all the way up from our president, down to state and city officials.


Again, I'm not from Chicago, I'm from NY and live in AZ. I know however that Rahm Emanuel needs to go. There is no limit on terms in Chicago, the only city in the US without term limits. Illinois is one of 13 US states without term limits.


There needs to be a limit on official terms. If an official inept, then he needs to go. The black community in Chicago vehemently disapproves of Emanuel. A good start would be getting him out of office.


Once we have the right officials in office, deals need to be struck with corporations. If you're a big box corporation moving into a disadvantaged community a certain percent of profits needs to go into improving the community, training/advancement, tuition reimbursement, etc.


On a federal level, Americans tax-dollars need to go back into these inner-cities. On a federal level the right politicians and the right policies, such as marijuana decriminalization, rehabilitation in lieu of lengthy prison sentences for non-violent offenders, MORE rehabilitation for violent-offenders with an emphasis on job training so that these young men who made the wrong choices can make better ones when they get out.

i appreciate your honesty.

you still have faith in a system that you yourself agree is and has been stacked against us for decades.

i no longer share that same faith.

i say its time we stop relying on that corrupt system to work in our favor

i say its time for us to take control and use the only resources currently available to us.

however, we can agree to disagree

sadly, we are rarely able to get to that point of discourse without name calling, be it stupid, dumb, c**n, or SWS. (in general, not talking about you.)

thank you again for your honest answer without sarcasm.
 
And what do you mean by "take control and use the only resources currently available to us?"
 
And what do you mean by "take control and use the only resources currently available to us?"

In short, African Americans have $1.1 Trillion in annual buying power.

imagine if we circulated that money within our own communities?

aside from money, when it comes to education i believe our best resource is us.
if the parent is truely involved in thier childs education, the quality of the school wont matter.

my state is always within the last 3 places in education in the nation.
thats dead last
second to last
or third from last
every. single. year.
but my 9yo son is reading at a 7th grade level
and doing math at a 6th grade level

why?
because i dont wait on the schools to teach my son anything.
if my sons school introduces him to something first, i look at that as a failure on my part. thats how ive always approached his education.



we HAVE the money

we have the means to educate or seek help with education

but we settle for excuses
 
Spare me the revisionist history. In the 60s and 70s black inner cities faced even higher crime rates. The number of murders has dropped since then in Chicago.
How TF is it revisionist history?
I said the schools were wrose then than they are now, the teachers were paid less, there were less opportunities for black youth and there was less money in the black community. Literally NONE of that is revisionist history. All of those are factual statements. WTF are you talking about?
And then your rebuttal to that is crime and murders are down. When someone already posted in this thread that there were MORE murders back then.
So even that point that you tryed to make is BS

Random years homicides rates

2015: 488
2009: 459
2003: 601
1996: 796
1992: 943
1986: 744
1980: 863
1974: 970

Poor Chicago?

There are groups that march in protest of these killings and work to better these neighborhoods. So your argument is overly facile. It's going to take a systematic overhaul from local government, education, law enforcement and businesses to make a difference.
That was never my argument so again WTF are you talking about? I said it gonna take MORE than marching in protest and holding rallies. Its gonna take an effort like what we saw with the BP. And I said it could be done because they did it in worse conditions. You on the other hand want to do exactly what I was saying, which is wait for the very people that set up the systemic racism to help black people overcome it. THAT IS STUPID. They WILL NOT EVER help us overcome the systemic racism that they worked so hard to set up.

If black communities had the capital to fix their neighborhoods, better their schools and create opportunities for the youth, what your proposing might be feasible.

The links I provided tell us that is not the case. There just isn't enough money. That's why teachers are on strike and youth groups are having meetings trying to find ways to fix the unemployment problem in south side Chicago.
There is enough money. Blacks have tremendous spending power. Its just what we choose to spend our money on. The system has no control over the money we have already made. All we have to do is make a conscious effort to redistribute the wealth into our own neighborhoods. Support each others businesses, etc.

The spending power of blacks has exceed 1 trillion dollars but what do we spend it on?
1. Ethnic hair and beauty aids- Our dollars make up 85.8% of the industry.
2. Hot sauce- Hot sauce takes up 25.4% of the black dollar. Hot sauce. ( And we are the only group who takes up a significant share of the molasses, table syrup, and sweetener industry. The black dollar accounts for about 14% of that industry)
3. Hygiene products and toiletries- 17% of the black dollar goes to these items.

We have the money. We just have to redistribute our wealth back to ourselves.

Big businesses do continue pushing out and pricing out smaller businesses and they fail to hire enough local black youth.

No money is coming out of these neighborhoods and therefore no money is going back in, thus schools suffer.
None of this means the kids have to be killing each other.

Historical ramifications of redlining has many black children being born into incredibly dire circumstances where their mothers have an incentive to remain on welfare else lose their benefits of they go over an income threshold.
The ultimate goal is to get off of welfare after it has helped you get back on your feet, not to remain on it forever. I myself have had food stamps before. And I loved how it reduced my grocery bill to virtually zero each month. But when I got a job I had to give it up. I didnt enjoy the fact that I was gonna have to pay for food now and pay the tax, but complacency is the enemy of progression and I wanted to progress. Not stay in the same rut I was in. Maybe the mother should place more value on there being a father figure in the home and progressing than trying to stay on government assisstence( which in most cases is barely enough or not enough to live on anyway).

And a focus on incarceration instead of rehabilitation ensures a pattern of imprisonment and redivism for those in the system. How can people hope to re-enter society when they were never apart of it in the first place?
The focus here should be to not get locked up in the first place. Yes, the system is set up for us to fail in this regard. Especially with the unconstitutional methods like stop and frisk being used to disproportionately incarcerate blacks. But that just means that we cant be doing the stupid things that will get us harassed or locked up quicker. Stop riding around in your car smoking weed, and when you are riding wear a seat belt and stop at stop signs. Stop the pointless *** gang banging. If you know that the police stop and frisk heavy in your neighborhood, dont walk around with weed in your pocket. Have the weed man assume all the risk and have him bring it to you. Obtain LEGAL carry permit fir your weapons. You know, common sense **** like that.

No these kids don't have to be killing one another, they don't know anything else however. This is their reality. They were born in it, they were molded by it and they weren't shown another way.
FINALLY, you get around to actually answering my question. And the answer is NO. NONE OF THOSE FACTORS that you originally posted means that these kids HAVE to be out here killing each other. But then you follow it up with the common dumb *** excuse of "We are too stupid to learn or know any better"
And I really hate that dumb *** excuse that black people use as a crutch to not have to look at themselves in the mirror and decide to be better people.
"I dont know nothin else. All I grew up around was killas and drug dealers" But yet there are always kids that grow up in those same conditions and go on to achieve greatness through their own drive and determination. Even facing all of the SAME EXACT roadblocks as the other kids. Same hood, same gunshots, same redlining, same gentrification, same everything. But you go on beleiving black people are too stupid to learn how to not kill each other. Im sorry but I have a more optimistic view of our people's intelligence level than to believe that BS.


It's not all on the black community, America has a debt to pay. We need to inject money and resources into these neighborhoods.
Nobody owes us ANYTHING. Get that through your head. WE OWE IT TO OURSELVES!!!!
We didnt even get basic civil rights until we demanded and took it for ourselves. The government CANNOT be trusted to one day just come out and denounce all of the systemic racism and roadblocks that were purposely placed in our way in the first place. To them that's hustling backwards.
It never going to happen, so get it out of your skull. The proof of it is that in all time we have been here, has it happened?
So why in TF do black people hold on to this fantasy that one day the establishment is just gonna hand over power, money and resources to us?
Stop lying to yourself.
 
Right....Because these kids have computers at home and know what LinkedIn is. :rolleyes

SMH.
No they have computers in their pockets and they all know how to use them to get the information they want to consume.
Our job is to get them to want to consume the right media.


Right because these kids know how to properly research, create and format resumes/cover letters and job search.


These schools are not properly equipping kids to survive in society.
So a kid know how to Youtube/Google a drill video but doesnt know how to Youtube/Google tips for resume writing?
No, they know how to do it. They just dont place in value in looking up those things.
We have to educate our children on WHY these things are important and how it will help them achieve greatness.
WE have to do it. NOT the schools.



It seems like alot of your points revolve around someone else doing something for us that we can do for ourselves.
If you already know the schools doesnt teach these things, then guess what? As a parent, it is YOUR job to teach them
 
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Before I respond let me preface this post by pointing out I'm not black. Thought that was known by now but you address me as such a few times in this post, so let me clear that up before I go on.

How TF is it revisionist history?
I said the schools were wrose then than they are now, the teachers were paid less, there were less opportunities for black youth and there was less money in the black community. Literally NONE of that is revisionist history. All of those are factual statements. WTF are you talking about?
And then your rebuttal to that is crime and murders are down. When someone already posted in this thread that there were MORE murders back then.
So even that point that you tryed to make is BS



When you fail to see that people in these communities TODAY are actively organizing and working to better their neighborhoods, and just brush aside the exacerbating factors such as inept local officials, lack of resources and a broken justice system you fail to grasp the entirety of the issue at hand. Which is why your argument regarding this matter is facile and continues to be so.

Activism isn't some antiquated long-forgotten concept. People have been trying to bring change for the past 60 years, it takes the cooperation of federal, state and local government and its officials to truly foster change. Period.


That was never my argument so again WTF are you talking about? I said it gonna take MORE than marching in protest and holding rallies. Its gonna take an effort like what we saw with the BP. And I said it could be done because they did it in worse conditions. You on the other hand want to do exactly what I was saying, which is wait for the very people that set up the systemic racism to help black people overcome it. THAT IS STUPID. They WILL NOT EVER help us overcome the systemic racism that they worked so hard to set up.
There is enough money. Blacks have tremendous spending power. Its just what we choose to spend our money on. The system has no control over the money we have already made. All we have to do is make a conscious effort to redistribute the wealth into our own neighborhoods. Support each others businesses, etc.

The spending power of blacks has exceed 1 trillion dollars but what do we spend it on?
1. Ethnic hair and beauty aids- Our dollars make up 85.8% of the industry.
2. Hot sauce- Hot sauce takes up 25.4% of the black dollar. Hot sauce. ( And we are the only group who takes up a significant share of the molasses, table syrup, and sweetener industry. The black dollar accounts for about 14% of that industry)
3. Hygiene products and toiletries- 17% of the black dollar goes to these items.



We have the money. We just have to redistribute our wealth back to ourselves.

The ultimate goal is to get off of welfare after it has helped you get back on your feet, not to remain on it forever. I myself have had food stamps before. And I loved how it reduced my grocery bill to virtually zero each month. But when I got a job I had to give it up. I didnt enjoy the fact that I was gonna have to pay for food now and pay the tax, but complacency is the enemy of progression and I wanted to progress. Not stay in the same rut I was in. Maybe the mother should place more value on there being a father figure in the home and progressing than trying to stay on government assisstence( which in most cases is barely enough or not enough to live on anyway).

The Black Panthers? Dude you're all over the place. The Panthers were a self-defense revolutionary organization that took up arms against police-brutality. They also provided food and clothing for kids in the community.

Which is all fine and necessary, but we're talking about violence within the community. Free breakfasts and clothing drives isn't going to foster change if POLICY remains the same. POLICY needs to change, schools NEED to be better funded, and police need to reevaluate HOW they police these neighborhoods. These things HAVE to change.

You keep pointing out the 1.1 trillion black Americans have in buying power and how people are spending money on relatively frivolous things instead of investing in their futures. While that's true and isn't something I'd contend, black people are subject to unscrupulous corporations that set-up shop in their neighborhoods and use such statistics to further target black people.


People SHOULDN'T patronize such establishments but when such establishments are pushing out and pricing black-owned businesses people are left little choice. I agree that folks should taper back on unnecessary goods, but at the same time, these corporations should be FORCED to contribute to these communities.


Your final "point" in this part of your long-winded soliloquy, yeah, black single-mothers "SHOULD" place greater value on their children's fathers. Just like governments and the policies they make "SHOULD" be practical and shouldn't sabotage people.


Reality is this, since child-support is not taxable, many single-black mothers stand to lose more than they gain if they marry their children's father. Being on welfare isn't just about the grocery tab, it's about being under the threshold so they can qualify for free medical coverage for their children. Reality is that if these women did have their children's father in their life, they'd be even more hard out with all the things they'd have to foot the bill for themselves.


You can absolutely attribute that to the fact that

1. Poor education did not equip these folks with the tools they need to thrive in the job market.

2. The businesses in these neighborhoods are not paying people livable wages.

Again, people cannot let corporations off the hook.


The focus here should be to not get locked up in the first place. Yes, the system is set up for us to fail in this regard. Especially with the unconstitutional methods like stop and frisk being used to disproportionately incarcerate blacks. But that just means that we cant be doing the stupid things that will get us harassed or locked up quicker. Stop riding around in your car smoking weed, and when you are riding wear a seat belt and stop at stop signs. Stop the pointless *** gang banging. If you know that the police stop and frisk heavy in your neighborhood, dont walk around with weed in your pocket. Have the weed man assume all the risk and have him bring it to you. Obtain LEGAL carry permit fir your weapons. You know, common sense **** like that.

Right, but for those who are trying to re-assimilate back into society, those with records, it isn't that simple. If people aren't getting hired because of their records they're going to eventually fall into a cycle of recidivism.

That's why we need policy-makers take a look at these issues and why people need to work to change laws and policies that just further damage people's lives. A misdemeanor or certain felonies shouldn't be death sentence. Again, beyond decriminalizing certain schedule 1 substances, there needs to be a focus on rehabilitation, education and job-training. A young man who committed a crime at 17, 18, is going to be ill-equipped to do better without the proper guidance at 22, 23.

The system is a trap, you acknowledge that. It's not that easy for a lot of people to just "know better". Troubled youths are exactly that, troubled. They aren't sensible enough to make the right decisions ESPECIALLY when alternatives aren't made readily apparent. We look at other models in other nations, and time and again we see that people are far less likely to fall subject to recidivism with the right education/job training and rehabilitation.

FINALLY, you get around to actually answering my question. And the answer is NO. NONE OF THOSE FACTORS that you originally posted means that these kids HAVE to be out here killing each other. But then you follow it up with the common dumb *** excuse of "We are too stupid to learn or know any better"
And I really hate that dumb *** excuse that black people use as a crutch to not have to look at themselves in the mirror and decide to be better people.
"I dont know nothin else. All I grew up around was killas and drug dealers" But yet there are always kids that grow up in those same conditions and go on to achieve greatness through their own drive and determination. Even facing all of the SAME EXACT roadblocks as the other kids. Same hood, same gunshots, same redlining, same gentrification, same everything. But you go on beleiving black people are too stupid to learn how to not kill each other. Im sorry but I have a more optimistic view of our people's intelligence level than to believe that BS.

Nobody owes us ANYTHING. Get that through your head. WE OWE IT TO OURSELVES!!!!
We didnt even get basic civil rights until we demanded and took it for ourselves. The government CANNOT be trusted to one day just come out and denounce all of the systemic racism and roadblocks that were purposely placed in our way in the first place. To them that's hustling backwards.
It never going to happen, so get it out of your skull. The proof of it is that in all time we have been here, has it happened?
So why in TF do black people hold on to this fantasy that one day the establishment is just gonna hand over power, money and resources to us?
Stop lying to yourself.


Nobody "HAS" to do anything but if you're just going to dismiss environmental factors that contribute to these issues, you're just detracting from the bigger picture. It's a buildup, killers and criminals are products of their environment. When people are born in environments where violence and economic despair is so pervasive, people don't really believe that there is another way.

It's not that people are "stupid", I never said that. Underprivileged and undereducated sure, but people in these neighborhoods aren't stupid. The capacity is there, the potential is there. The facilities and opportunities are simply not.

You seem to think that I have "faith" in the government, and the systems in place. Again, that's not the case. However nobody "took" civil rights for themselves. Sure activism galvanized and mobilized the black community so that their collective voice was that much more powerful but ultimately It was a process, a legislative one that ushered in policy change.


Many policies which are flawed and impractical, I mean it was Lyndon B. Johnson who signed into law the Civil Rights act if '64. He also was the one who declared the aforementioned "war on poverty". That same war on poverty has given rise to many complications within the black community.


If you don't believe that legislative action/tweaking needs to occur to fix hurtful policies, then I don't know what to tell you really. You're going to be hard-pressed to find people who are currently on the front-lines of these issues, teachers, activists, organizers etc, that agree with your sentiment.


Policy change goes hand in hand with community change. It's not a matter of faith, it's a matter of practicality or rather reality.
 
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So a kid know how to Youtube/Google a drill video but doesnt know how to Youtube/Google tips for resume writing?
No, they know how to do it. They just dont place in value in looking up those things.
We have to educate our children on WHY these things are important and how it will help them achieve greatness.
WE have to do it. NOT the schools.



It seems like alot of your points revolve around someone else doing something for us that we can do for ourselves.
If you already know the schools doesnt teach these things, then guess what? As a parent, it is YOUR job to teach them



I'd wager no. It's pretty easy to google "Chief Keef", I'd imagine it'd be pretty difficult for someone with no guidance to properly format a resume.


I know this because I've actually wrote up resumes and cover letters for people I grew up with that are high-school drop-outs and former juvenile offenders.


It was a shock to me when I literally had to help a couple guys apply for jobs, especially when they both are pretty bright quick-witted individuals. They're not stupid by any means, they just were never properly taught. Spending time in a juvenile detention center will do that.


Parents should have a vested interest in their kid's education. Reality is, it's a cycle, as most of these issues are. Many of these parents are uneducated themselves who had kids when they themselves were teenagers, They don't have the skills to help their kids.



How about this, instead of disagreeing with me like you've been doing from the outset of this thread, maybe you should step back and realize that a lot of what you're saying is echoing my very sentiments, you're just being unreasonable about how things should be fixed.


Don't argue for the sake of arguing, it's a waste of time. Be realistic.
 
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Until most of these young black kids realize it's more out there at our reach besides sipping lean all day, going to the nba, rapping, etc it's going to be hard to convince them otherwise.

When they cannot see or interact with Black surgeons, scientist, lawyers, legit business owners, etc then to them it's unattainable and far fetched. They flock to selling weed, crime, banging, etc because it's very prevalent, right outside their door, and to them very attainable especially without much effort made. This will always be more attractive to the ignorant mind.

Re train their thoughts, turn off that tv, and expose them to other attainable positive lifestyles and they will probably change. Walking around talking in these dumb sounding southern drawls, speaking Ebonics all the time isn't cute especially when you have no moderation or grey area, when it's all you know. We have to learn how to stop trying to make everything cool. Some things such as eating pig intestines, remixing the N racial slur to sound hip, eating salty foods all day, shooting each other, etc are not meant to be made cool. They all lead to our demise. Let stupid stuff go!

Grow TF up mentally. I'm sick of seeing my people out here zombied out and wasting life away to fit in or seem cool! Smdh
 
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Until most of these young black kids realize it's more out there at our reach besides sipping lean all day, going to the nba, rapping, etc it's going to be hard to convince the otherwise.

When they cannot see or interact with Black surgeons, scientist, lawyers, legit business owners, etc then to them it's unattainable and far fetched. They flock to selling weed, crime, banging, etc because it's very prevalent, right outside their door, and to them very attainable especially without much effort made. This will always be more attractive to the ignorant mind.

Re train their thoughts, turn off that tv, and expose them to other attainable positive lifestyles and they will probably change. Walking around talking in these dumb sounding southern drawls, speaking Ebonics all the time isn't cute especially when you have no moderation or grey area, when it's all you know. We have to learn how to stop trying to make everything cool. Some things such as eating pig intestines, remixing the N racial slur to sound hip, eating salty foods all day, shooting each other, etc are not meant to be made cool. They all lead to outer demise. Let stupid stuff go!

Grow TF up mentally. I'm sick of seeing my people out here zombied out and wasting life away to fit in or seem cool! Smdh
well said. on my way to work daily i wonder how the black stations advertise for strip club amateur night, open mic, weave, and all sorts of *******

but when i give top 40 or anything else a listen there are no advertisements of this nature.........we have become our worst enemy in some respects or lack thereof
 
When they cannot see or interact with Black surgeons, scientist, lawyers, legit business owners, etc then to them it's unattainable and far fetched. They flock to selling weed, crime, banging, etc because it's very prevalent, right outside their door, and to them very attainable especially without much effort made. This will always be more attractive to the ignorant mind.

how does this account for the young kids who encounter and interact with these types of people regularly yet still choose that path?

black barbers often own their businesses

car washes

small diners/ resturants

those are clear positive examples right there in front of their faces.

or how about youth in large cities where seeing black lawyers, doctors, and engineers is very common?
 
I'm not familiar with any young black kids who are mentored by Black surgeons, nurses, lawyers, financial advisors yet still hang out on the block looking to wet someone up, smoke weed, sell drugs, gang activity etc.

Maybe you can share your experiences but I have yet to meet someone who is so occupied with interning or volunteering their hours/time in said professions to attain their goal but still does those felonious acts you mentioned.

Btw it's a difference between leasing out a booth to cut hair or piece of land to run a shop.

Finally, it takes more than just being visible to the kids. Intern them, show them the ropes to becoming the professions I listed. Just saying "oh well that's too bad for them, I just drove by 2 barbershops and a car wash that some black guy runs, so why are they not encouraged?" [emoji]128527[/emoji]
 
One could argue that its all the things that SneakerHeathen said but...

People will scream, gentrification, systemic racism, and poor education all day long.

No one is saying these things dont exist. Im saying since when have these things NOT existed. Since when?

I hear what you are saying but

Several times in this thread I have acknowledged that the things you named play a factor in creating the environment that hinders these kids ability to progress.
Maybe you should read what people say with understanding before you just automatically disagree with what they are saying.

We all agree that those factors play a role, but like I and many other in this thread are trying to tell you is that the answer DOES NOT lie in the government
doing anything to equalize the playing field. Its going to take us doing it for ourselves. ( when I say us and we I am talking about us in the black community. Since you are white you are not included in that collective "us" that I am referring to...just so you dont confuse my words a sbeing all inclusive.)
 
Just FYI- When I say "we" or "us" I am referring to the black community. So since you are not black, I am not referring to you. The we and us are not all inclusive.


When you fail to see that people in these communities TODAY are actively organizing and working to better their neighborhoods, and just brush aside the exacerbating factors such as inept local officials, lack of resources and a broken justice system you fail to grasp the entirety of the issue at hand. Which is why your argument regarding this matter is facile and continues to be so.
Nobody fails to see that people are organizing, and nobody is brushing aside those factors. I understand the plight of the black man more than you ever could.
And I understand the issues that blacks face. All of those factors will exist whether we kill each other or not. So what I am saying is, "Maybe we shouldnt kill each other." Simple concept.


Activism isn't some antiquated long-forgotten concept. People have been trying to bring change for the past 60 years, it takes the cooperation of federal, state and local government and its officials to truly foster change. Period.
The Black Panthers? Dude you're all over the place. The Panthers were a self-defense revolutionary organization that took up arms against police-brutality. They also provided food and clothing for kids in the community.

Which is all fine and necessary, but we're talking about violence within the community. Free breakfasts and clothing drives isn't going to foster change if POLICY remains the same. POLICY needs to change, schools NEED to be better funded, and police need to reevaluate HOW they police these neighborhoods. These things HAVE to change.
Not all over the place at all. My original point was that we need a BP style takeover of our neighborhood to fight the violence. and NOT wait on them to change policy, because its never going to happen. If the schools are not well funded then we need to be ready to offer our kids the support they need to succeed. We need to police our own neighborhoods and not just sit back and live in fear of the gangs and drug dealers. These things are not impossible.


You keep pointing out the 1.1 trillion black Americans have in buying power and how people are spending money on relatively frivolous things instead of investing in their futures. While that's true and isn't something I'd contend, black people are subject to unscrupulous corporations that set-up shop in their neighborhoods and use such statistics to further target black people.


People SHOULDN'T patronize such establishments but when such establishments are pushing out and pricing black-owned businesses people are left little choice. I agree that folks should taper back on unnecessary goods, but at the same time, these corporations should be FORCED to contribute to these communities.
I know its true. And I agree, we dont have to patronize these establishments. But that's what Im talking about here.., making better choices.


Your final "point" in this part of your long-winded soliloquy, yeah, black single-mothers "SHOULD" place greater value on their children's fathers. Just like governments and the policies they make "SHOULD" be practical and shouldn't sabotage people.

Reality is this, since child-support is not taxable, many single-black mothers stand to lose more than they gain if they marry their children's father. Being on welfare isn't just about the grocery tab, it's about being under the threshold so they can qualify for free medical coverage for their children. Reality is that if these women did have their children's father in their life, they'd be even more hard out with all the things they'd have to foot the bill for themselves.
And there are plenty of single mothers that went the other route. Found a suitable father figure for their child(ren), at the risk of losing welfare benefits, and worked hard to better their situation.The goal of welfare is to help people get back on their feet, not stay on it for the rest of your life. And that is the mentality that we have to fight. The "do whatever you can to stay on welfare for the rest of your life" mentality. Regardless of what regulations are put in place. It wont matter what regulations there are once you get off and better your situation.


Right, but for those who are trying to re-assimilate back into society, those with records, it isn't that simple. If people aren't getting hired because of their records they're going to eventually fall into a cycle of recidivism.

That's why we need policy-makers take a look at these issues and why people need to work to change laws and policies that just further damage people's lives. A misdemeanor or certain felonies shouldn't be death sentence. Again, beyond decriminalizing certain schedule 1 substances, there needs to be a focus on rehabilitation, education and job-training. A young man who committed a crime at 17, 18, is going to be ill-equipped to do better without the proper guidance at 22, 23.

The system is a trap, you acknowledge that. It's not that easy for a lot of people to just "know better". Troubled youths are exactly that, troubled. They aren't sensible enough to make the right decisions ESPECIALLY when alternatives aren't made readily apparent. We look at other models in other nations, and time and again we see that people are far less likely to fall subject to recidivism with the right education/job training and rehabilitation.
Thats the whole point of why I said we need to teach our kids how to NOT GET LOCKED UP IN THE FIRST PLACE. Nobody expects these kids to "just know better".
The point is to teach our kids about the unjust laws that are designed to help us fail and how to avoid becoming a victim to them. That way there are less 17 and 18 committing stupid crimes and less "troubled youth" in general. We have to make those alternatives readily apparent. We have to give them the right education. Because those values, the values of doing what is right and NOT doing what is wrong start WAY before a kid gets to school. Those lessons have to be instilled by parents.

Nobody "HAS" to do anything but if you're just going to dismiss environmental factors that contribute to these issues, you're just detracting from the bigger picture. It's a buildup, killers and criminals are products of their environment. When people are born in environments where violence and economic despair is so pervasive, people don't really believe that there is another way.
Nobody is dismissing the environmental factors, in fact, in every post i acknowledge the factors. And in fact IM looking at the BIGGER picture.
Like you said, product of their environment. That means we have to change the environment to change the product that comes out of it.



It's not that people are "stupid", I never said that. Underprivileged and undereducated sure, but people in these neighborhoods aren't stupid. The capacity is there, the potential is there. The facilities and opportunities are simply not.
When you say "That's all they know" especially in 2016, you are implying that they a child growing up in that environment CANNOT learn anything else but how to do what they learned from growing up in their environment. That may have been true from 1950-1990. But the world is connected now.
Kids have a window to the outside world. They are not limited to the blocks that make up their neighborhood. If they want, they can learn.
And we have to foster that inquisitiveness. So to say "Thats all they know" is to give up on the child and their intelligence.

You seem to think that I have "faith" in the government, and the systems in place. Again, that's not the case. However nobody "took" civil rights for themselves. Sure activism galvanized and mobilized the black community so that their collective voice was that much more powerful but ultimately It was a process, a legislative one that ushered in policy change.
You might not have faith in the policies that the government has, as of now, as it pertains to the black community, but you have faith that the government will EVER change these unfair policies on their own. We in the black community do not share your optimism. We would be waiting forever. And thats what black in the 60s did. They stopped waiting. The legislative process that granted civil rights doesnt happen with out the galvanization and mobilization of black people. They didnt get their rights until they demanded them. There is no denying that. Blacks absolutely took their civil rights.


Many policies which are flawed and impractical, I mean it was Lyndon B. Johnson who signed into law the Civil Rights act if '64. He also was the one who declared the aforementioned "war on poverty". That same war on poverty has given rise to many complications within the black community.

If you don't believe that legislative action/tweaking needs to occur to fix hurtful policies, then I don't know what to tell you really. You're going to be hard-pressed to find people who are currently on the front-lines of these issues, teachers, activists, organizers etc, that agree with your sentiment.


Policy change goes hand in hand with community change. It's not a matter of faith, it's a matter of practicality or rather reality.
This is where the disconnect is. You want to focus how the policies are unfair and how they make black people act a certain way. And we all agree that those factors exist.
But community change goes hand in hand with consciousness change or a change in mentality, not policy change.
Waiting on policy change to help change the hood is the farthest thing from reality because those policies were put in place on purpose and they have no intentions on changing them.

You say we are saying the same thing but we are really not.
You keep saying policy needs to change, Which I agree, it does need to happen, but that is not going to change or fix the hood.
I keep saying that a change in black consciousness is what will change the hood for the better, which will make alot of those unfair policies less effective.
Two polar opposite views, so I'll agree to disagree.
 
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I'm not familiar with any young black kids who are mentored by Black surgeons, nurses, lawyers, financial advisors yet still hang out on the block looking to wet someone up, smoke weed, sell drugs, gang activity etc.

for the sake of conversation, please dont move the goalposts.

you didnt say mentored by, you said see and interact with.

these kids SEE and INTERACT with those types of people all the time, but we perpetuate this myth acting as if these kids exist in some bubble, far away from any positive examples, role models, or mentors.

to these kids the working man really is a sucker, so any attempt to reprogram their mind without the same message coming from the parents wont matter.




Maybe you can share your experiences but I have yet to meet someone who is so occupied with interning or volunteering their hours/time in said professions to attain their goal but still does those felonious acts you mentioned.

share?
like i did on page 2? http://niketalk.com/t/646804/man-ca...for-facebook-warning-graphic/30#post_25513677

the program i was in at 15 with 15-25 other boys being mentored, and how 99% of them STILL chose that route.

and that wasnt the first time ive shared that story on NT, previously with greater detail that i didnt feel like typing out this time.




Btw it's a difference between leasing out a booth to cut hair or piece of land to run a shop.

if you wanna talk we can talk, i dont do sarcasm, sarcasm if for the weak mind. if my comments dont make sense to you ask questions like an adult and i can explain it further.

considering i went out of my way to type "barbers OWNING their own businesses", i wasnt talking about LEASING a booth.

there are many legit black business owners in the hood despite whats generally believed, right there in front of the faces of these kids, but once again its way more attractive to perpetuate the myth that black owned businesses dont exist in the hood.

- black barbershops
- car washes
- small diners/ resturants
- catering companies
- funeral homes

they're there, if you know what you're looking for. but only the parents can fix that.

see below...




Finally, it takes more than just being visible to the kids. Intern them, show them the ropes to becoming the professions I listed. Just saying "oh well that's too bad for them, I just drove by 2 barbershops and a car wash that some black guy runs, so why are they not encouraged?" [emoji]128527[/emoji]

none of my comments said or are saying "oh, well..."

again, if you wanna know, ask.

far too often are our unpopular solutions misinterpreted as an "oh well" attitude.

not only was i in a program in HS, i also worked at a juvenile prison for a year. and yes, being visible alone isnt enough, but interning and mentoring isnt the magic pill we claim it is either.

the kids in my program had sentences of 9 months minimum. while we were able to turn kids mind frame around within that time, ive personally seen how family members can destroy 9 months of reprogramming over a weekend visit home.

if the parents and/or extended arent on board.....ACTIVELY on board, then its all for nothing.

we've been 'mentoring' since the 60's while steadily moving backwards, refusing to adopt progressive thinking.


the mentoring angle is such a lazy approach when you consider:
we had mentors....what did we do?
the generation before us had mentors....what did they do?
the generation before them had mentors.....what did they do?

yet every new generation is all, "they just need some one to show them differently"

they've been shown
they dont care.

there's not a thing you can tell that child that his mama cant knock down in 10 minutes.
ive seen it.



as ive said before in this thread, dont take my word for it, watch the documentary The Savages from 1967.

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/the_savages

listen to the parallels
see the similarities
do the math, movie was made 50 years ago.

50 years of the same tired solutions we have today. but we keep staying the course.
 
 or how about youth in large cities where seeing black lawyers, doctors, and engineers is very common?
I travel around socal and meet clients in beverly hills, LA county, orange county etc....

As a professional, I rarely see black lawyers, doctors or engineers...

What city are you from where you see underpriveleged youth regularly interact with black lawyers and doctors?
 
homie speaking the truth about family ruining a kid chances....some kids have no chance due to the people in their household
 
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