Dutch politicians vote to ban sales of petrol and diesel cars by 2025

waiting for an hour mid-travel to charge your car vs. getting a full tank of gas in 3 minutes. no thanks.
 
im all for this ..the only reason different types of energy power cars have not flourish is because the oil companies pump so much money into politicians and car companies so it can stay that.



IDGF about a hemi
 
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waiting for an hour mid-travel to charge your car vs. getting a full tank of gas in 3 minutes. no thanks.


cmon soon there is fast charging stations that do it in 30 min....im sure in the future its going to be even less
 
Oil carries more energy per square inch than any battery can be engineered to do...

"Oil companies" dont control anything.. Try OPEC...at least they used to.
 
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Compare the advances in computing power since the 1970s vs. the advances in mpg in non-hybrids since the 1970s. If the combustion engine has reached it's peak performance why are we still using it? If it hasn't, why not?
 
Da combustion engine continues to get better, and you can change da rules of physics..

http://www.science20.com/science_20/energy_density_why_gasoline_here_stay-91403

Energy density is the amount of stored energy in something; in the case of gasoline we talk in America about a 1 gallon volume but I will use both metric and standard for the values. Gasoline has an energy density of about 44 megajoules per kilogram (MJ/kg), converted to American values that is 1.3 × 108 J/gallon. 3.61 × 106 joules is 1 Kwh and 1 Kwh can run a TV for about 24 hours. That means a gallon of gas contains the energy density to power your television for 36 straight days - in a comparatively tiny package. How large a battery would you need to run a TV for 36 days? Gigantic.

Cohen likens it to backpacking - anyone who has hiked or been in the military knows you want as much energy as possible in as small a space and weight as possible. MREs may not taste good but there is no question they pack a lot of calories in a tiny form factor. So it goes with gasoline. If 13 gallons of gasoline keep an entire car going for 400 miles at a high rate of speed, that is darn efficient energy density. It is also not easy to replace, not because we are 'addicted' to oil or because oil companies are buying up alternative fuel ideas and mothballing them.

It's plain hard to beat and progress is about making our lives better, not living in the dark and being happy about windmills. Hydrogen would be great but unless you have a fuel tank the size of a double-decker bus, it is not taking you 400 miles. And electric cars are risky unless the government spends trillions putting in electric stations every 10 miles. Ethanol was the last craze of the Anything-But-Oil contingent yet even they had to succumb to reality and recognize that the lower energy density meant 25% worse gas mileage - worse for people, worse for food prices and worse for the environment
 
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It's not possible to have hemispherical combustion... Nevermind.
[h1]Inside Chrysler's Two-Mode HEMI Hybrid System[/h1]


Matt Hardigree
11/14/07 7:00pm
Filed to: LA AUTO SHOW

3.8K
23

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On the outside, a hybrid is usually just a badge and a smug driver. On the inside is where all the fun happens. In that spirit we bring you the internals of the Chrysler version of the two-mode hybrid system (after a long day of previews and reveals we thought you deserved a little mechanical pr0n). This system is considered "two-mode" because it utilizes a continuously variable transmission with two modes. When going slow and not carrying much the hybrid can use electric power, engine power or duel power to propel itself. At high speeds or with high loads, the system switches to full power from the HEMI with the electric assist. Full details below:

The Advanced Two-mode Hybrid System

Chrysler's advanced, state-of-the-art two-mode full hybrid system — developed in partnership with General Motors, Mercedes-Benz and The BMW Group — integrates proven automatic-transmission technology with a patented hybrid-electric drive system to deliver the world's first two-mode full hybrid.

As a result of low- and high-speed electric continuously variable transmission (ECVT) modes, the system is defined as a "two-mode hybrid." In addition, the sophisticated fuel-saving system incorporates four fixed-gear ratios for high efficiency and power-handling capabilities. During the two ECVT modes, the system can use the electric motors for acceleration, improving fuel economy, or for regenerative braking to utilize energy that would normally be lost during braking or deceleration. The energy is stored in the batteries for later use.

The system's two modes are optimized for city and highway driving.

In the first mode — at low speed and with light loads — the vehicle can operate in three ways:

• Electric power only

• Engine power only

• Any combination of engine and electric power

The two-mode hybrid provides all of the fuel-saving benefits of a full-hybrid system, including electric-only operation. In this mode, the engine is "shut off," with the vehicle moving under electric-only power at low speed. The result is a significant reduction in fuel consumption in heavy stop-and-go traffic.

The second mode is used primarily at highway speeds. In addition to electric assist, the second mode provides full power from the 5.7-liter HEMI[emoji]174[/emoji] V-8 when conditions demand it, such as when passing, pulling a trailer or climbing a steep grade.

The two-mode programming integrates a host of technologies to improve efficiency including Chrysler's patented Multi-displacement System (MDS), standard on the 5.7-liter HEMI V-8.

An elegantly complex design, the two-mode system also allows for more proliferate packaging via compact and powerful electric motors designed to fit within a conventional automatic transmission space — a clear efficiency advantage compared with today's typical single-mode systems that rely on much larger electric motors.

A sophisticated controller determines when the vehicle should operate in the first or second mode. Input from the controller determines the necessary torque for the driving conditions and sends a corresponding command to the engine and electric motors. The engine and electric motors transfer torque to a series of gears in the transmission, which multiply torque similar to a conventional automatic transmission to propel the vehicle. Unlike conventional continuously variable transmissions, however, the two-mode full hybrid's electrically controlled system uses no mechanical belts or bands. Shifts between the two modes are synchronous — meaning no engine speed changes are necessary for the mode shift to occur — resulting in seamless accelerations.

The 300-volt battery pack provides electric power for the system, and is designed to fit in the vehicle without compromising passenger space. A rectifier located under the vehicle's hood converts AC to DC, to power conventional 12-volt accessories, such as interior lighting, climate control and the audio system. The vehicle's internal-combustion engine efficiently maintains the battery pack.

Hybrid Development Center

Located in Troy, Mich., the Hybrid Development Center (General Motors, Chrysler, Mercedes-Benz and The BMW Group) jointly developed the overall modular two-mode hybrid system and the individual components: electric motors, transmission, high-voltage battery, high-performance electronics, wiring, safety systems, energy management and hybrid-system control units. In addition, the Hybrid Development Center is responsible for system integration and project management.

[h1]In[/h1]
 
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Umm...thats a transmission..
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In addition to electric assist, the second mode provides full power from the 5.7-liter HEMI[emoji]174[/emoji] V-8 when conditions demand it, such as when passing, pulling a trailer or climbing a steep grade. The two-mode programming integrates a host of technologies to improve efficiency including Chrysler's patented Multi-displacement System (MDS), standard on the 5.7-liter HEMI V-8. An elegantly complex design, the two-mode system also allows for more proliferate packaging via compact and powerful electric motors designed to fit within a conventional automatic transmission space — a clear efficiency advantage compared with today's typical single-mode systems that rely on much larger electric motors.


______________________________________________

 

Why make a hybrid with a V8?” The answer is in the Hemi's ability to shut off half its pistons, so that it could run on four-cylinder mode; the V6 and 4.7 V8 could not do that, and in any case were not as efficient. The electric motors helped reduce the load on the Hemi so it stayed in four-cylinder mode more often. The downside was that drivers with heavy feet could easily get poor mileage, and we found it didn't take much to get a Chrysler V6 Ford Flex, though the Ford had only 4,000 pounds of towing capacity). The Durango was still rated at 6,000 pounds.

The use of high and low speed electric transmission modes led to the label “two-mode hybrid.” In the first mode (light loads and low speeds), it could work as pure electric, pure gasoline, or a combination; the second mode was a combination. The automatic worked normally, with the motors' torque adjusted via the CVT. The 300-volt battery pack was arranged so that passenger space wasn't changed. To compensate for the added cost of the hybrid powerplant, Chrysler threw masses of standard features at the Durangos and Aspens that had them.

 
 
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Da HEMI block remains UNALTERED...

You said there is an electric hemi..no, da regular hemi runs ALONG SIDE electric motors that take turns powering da drive train.
 
There used to be two main issues impeding the adoption of the electric car by a greater share of the public:

- the cost associated with developing an adequate electric storage solution, which greatly affected the price of the vehicles. When Tesla came out with the Roadster, the car cost 120k, had a range lower than 100 miles, and required 6-8 hours of charge. It was common knowledge that the cost of the battery pack accounted for close to half the total cost of the vehicle around the time the first electric cars hit the market (which is why the early Prius cost 10k to 15k more than its gas-powered equivalent).

- convenience. There's nothing taking your car everywhere without having to worry about getting gas, and there's nothing like filling up in mere minutes and be on your way. Electric cars didn't have that presence outside of niche areas, but it is slowly changing with more cities incorporating electric charging stations and the technology allowing for faster recharges.


As far as government intervention goes, we have to remember that without the state and federal governments promoting the creation and maintenance of roads, we would probably still be driving on seasonally open highways and dirt roads. The oil companies wouldn't have gas stations in areas deemed unprofitable if it weren't for the federal and state governments providing subsidies and tax exemptions to offset such losses. Let me also dispel the notion that the "market decided the winners and losers" by saying that it is well-known that under pressure from rubber and oil conglomerates, many American cities cancelled their plans to develop mass transit and subways in favor of more roads to push people towards cars.
 
Da combustion engine continues to get better, and you can change da rules of physics..

It may be marginally better in terms of fuel efficiency. Which is why I said compare it to computing, or anything else for that matter, from the 70's. We should be at 100-200 mpg by now, without electricity.
 
how efficient is the process of drilling for oil, transporting oil hundreds of miles around the world and filling up at your local gas station compared to free, green energy from solar panels on your own house? 
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Da combustion engine continues to get better, and you can change da rules of physics..

http://www.science20.com/science_20/energy_density_why_gasoline_here_stay-91403

 


How efficient are combustion engines compared to an electric motor?

Da fuel b....gas is much more energy dense.. Electric power cant beat it.

Energy density has nothing to do with the process of converting one type of energy into another. That's what is meant by efficiency.

http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~...es/Trans_ElectricCars/ElectricVehicles96.html


Electric vehicles are more efficient--and thus generally less polluting--than internal-combustion vehicles for a variety of reasons. First, because the electric motor is directly connected to the wheels, it consumes no energy while the car is at rest or coasting, increasing the effective efficiency by roughly one fifth. Regenerative braking schemes--which employ the motor as a generator when the car is slowing down--can return as much as half an electric vehicle's kinetic energy to the storage cells, giving it a major advantage in stop-and-go urban traffic.

Furthermore, the motor converts more than 90 percent of the energy in its storage cells to motive force, whereas internal-combustion drives utilize less than 25 percent of the energy in a liter of gasoline. Although the storage cells are typically charged by an electricity-generating system, the efficiency of which averages only 33 percent, an electric drive still has a significant 5 percent net advantage over internal combustion. Innovations such as combined-cycle generation (which extracts additional energy from the exhaust heat of a conventional power plant) will soon make it possible for the utility power plants from which the storage cells are charged to raise their efficiency to as much as 50 percent. This boost would increase proportionately the fraction of energy ultimately delivered to the wheels of an electric vehicle. Fuel cells, which "burn" hydrogen to generate electricity directly onboard an electric car are even more efficient.
 
thing with the current evolution of electric cars is that it's a combo of three rapidly improving technologies that will each increase the adoption rates of EVs

the cars themselves, batteries and solar panels 

the advancement of EVs will be faster than anything the auto industry has seen before 
 
Keep that over there bruh. I'm not getting rid of my hemi or my LS b.
 
It doesn't matter if electric engine is more efficient if da power it uses to run isn't.. Damn :lol:

And lets not even talk about da fact that most electricity is still gotten from fossil fuels up da supply line ANYWAYS. So in da long run, mining for precious metals to create these batteries that are straight TOXIC to da environment to excavate & to dispose of is worse than drillin for natrual gas or coal mining.

Oil is more energy dense than anything you can compare battery wise for da same size...

Jeez...if electric cars were so good they would've supplanted internal combustion engines decades ago... :lol:
 
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