Black Lives Matter: Why the dual agenda?

An Armada said:
It not apples and oranges there are parallels between the two
see below

You saying this is the same thing as a white person telling me "You need to stop blaming white supremacy and white people we are all equal today I have no more rights than you" It's the same thing.
Click to expand...

Ok fam, please tell me how me telling you that part of the reason the black power movement died because black women collectively thought black men wasn't doing enough for black women and abandoned the movement has in common with white people shrugging off blacks problems?
 
Stay Lurkin said:
I just feel like it is a distraction. People are up & arms because a hashtag is forced down their throats every day.

And all it has done is fuel the media's narrative, and make white people more unapologetic about their ignorance, arrogance, indifference, and even sometimes their racism.
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A distraction from what? 
 
ObeahMyal7 said:
A distraction from what? 
Click to expand...

Maybe that wasn't the proper word.

It seems, like people are more concerned about the hashtag and the fact that on the surface it doesn't involve them. They get emotional immediately and start saying 'all lives matter' and at that point know learning will be had. Only reinforcement.

I don't know how you get white people to learn anything objectively though.

Hell, the same thing with black people.

Or the same with anyone.
 
NYC game said:
 
An Armada said:
It not apples and oranges there are parallels between the two
see below

You saying this is the same thing as a white person telling me "You need to stop blaming white supremacy and white people we are all equal today I have no more rights than you" It's the same thing.
Click to expand...
Ok fam, please tell me how me telling you that part of the reason the black power movement died because black women collectively thought black men wasn't doing enough for black women and abandoned the movement has in common with white people shrugging off blacks problems?
Click to expand...
First I'm not arguing that point about the black power movement dying @ObeahMyal7   is I believe. Like he said there where larger factors that killed the black power movement.

My issue is that the things you are saying to delegitimize feminism are analogous to things some white people say to delegitimize black movements. In the same way some white people shrug off the perspective of black problems and black movements you are shrugging off the perspective of  women's issue and women's movements.
Stay Lurkin said:
 
ObeahMyal7 said:
A distraction from what? 
Click to expand...
Maybe that wasn't the proper word.

It seems, like people are more concerned about the hashtag and the fact that on the surface it doesn't involve them. They get emotional immediately and start saying 'all lives matter' and at that point know learning will be had. Only reinforcement.

I don't know how you get white people to learn anything objectively though.

Hell, the same thing with black people.

Or the same with anyone.
Click to expand...
Yeah It's really difficult to explain these things to people who are coming from the historically privileged group in our American society.
 
ObeahMyal7 said:
By "build" I mean actually engage in conversation with and organize alongside black women under the banner of the movement for black lives. I am not talking about youtube personalities. I'm not talking about CIA agents. 

There is some truth to the 'interesting' history you provided. It is somewhat true that it  "was about black power before it was ever about women's equality." Embedded in many of the arguments and visions of black liberation during the late '60s was the assumption of gendered labor. Black men were the spokespersons and political organizers; black women were in charge of reproductive labor and instilling consciousness in black youth. The best aspects of black power movements addressed material concerns of poor and working class black people. The worst parts reified patriarchical relations. The lessons of the past is why today's movement rejects the binary that black power exists in tension with the centering of black women, trans and gender-non-conforming folks. Todays movement does not even principally argue in terms of liberal notions of "equality," but justice (economic, political, racial, etc). 

You lost me on the whole white feminism, incarceration, welfare stuff. 
Click to expand...

So you want to pick and choose what parts of the movement we talk about? :lol:

Again before "WE" turn this into a feminist vs anti-feminist debate even though I have a feeling it's already there, I did put the disclaimer that not all feminist because I know that's a big issue with feminist. However i'm talking about the most vocal of the group, I cannot speak on the ones who don't feel this way because they are not making their voices heard and the loudest mouth gets fed. Todays feminist INSIST that the movement is not about just women it's about the equality of men and women, when you make a claim and your organization doesn't reflect that claim in their actions than you can be called a liar.

I don't even care if women want to have their own little movement and to empower other women, I just think they got duped by said white female organization that wasn't even intended for them. They should have made their own black women's movement but that's jmo. Now it kind of looks like they see that they were never going to get the full benefits that the white women received and now they want to hop back across the fence but still keep their feminist values low key. The problem is if history repeats itself yet again etc.

The last part about incarceration and welfare was in response to you saying

If anything tore apart the multiple expressions of the black family, it was mass incarceration. To assert that feminism, not state repression, was more responsible represents a cowardly retreat from clashing with the oppositional forces that put our folks behind bars. I get it. Its easier to identify feminism as the culprit. But that doesn't make it an adequate explanation.
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As if feminist had no role in females taking payoffs to kick black men out of the house and creating a void which in my humble opinion I believe is not true, again a white female CIA agent is going to implement the governments plans of destroying the black community turning black women against black men was just a piece to a larger puzzle.
 
Last edited:
An Armada said:
First I'm not arguing that point about the black power movement dying @ObeahMyal7
  is I believe. Like he said there where larger factors that killed the black power movement.

My issue is that the things you are saying to delegitimize feminism are analogous to things some white people say to delegitimize black movements. In the same way some white people shrug off the perspective of black problems and black movements you are shrugging off the perspective of  women's issue and women's movements.




Yeah It's really difficult to explain these things to people who are coming from the historically privileged group in our American society.
Click to expand...

That's how this whole conversation got started, secondly i'm not delegitimizing feminism of the past cause I believe they had legitimate reasons,
Now!? I think it's just become a political ish show.
 
NYC game said:
 
An Armada said:
First I'm not arguing that point about the black power movement dying @ObeahMyal7
  is I believe. Like he said there where larger factors that killed the black power movement.

My issue is that the things you are saying to delegitimize feminism are analogous to things some white people say to delegitimize black movements. In the same way some white people shrug off the perspective of black problems and black movements you are shrugging off the perspective of  women's issue and women's movements.




Yeah It's really difficult to explain these things to people who are coming from the historically privileged group in our American society.
Click to expand...
That's how this whole conversation got started, secondly i'm not delegitimizing feminism of the past cause I believe they had legitimate reasons,
Now!? I think it's just become a political ish show.
Click to expand...
I see. I would just say I don't think feminism as a whole is a **** show now I just think its a loud minority that makes people view the whole as bad.
 
BlackIntellect said:
My grievance with BLM, is that it seems to me that at times It puts its own agenda forward at the expense of victims and their families. I can only speak to certain examples, but IMO if the family is asking you to fall back, and you continue, who are you marching for?
Click to expand...


I saw people online talking down on the moms who participated in the DNC. Questioning if they really loved their sons and daughter. **** was disgusting.

About the feminism thing, I think their want for more women and others in the spotlight goes back to tribalism.

Women played a much bigger part in tribes/African culture than is shown here in America.

That patriarchy comment has some truth to it.
 
An Armada said:
I see. I would just say I don't think feminism as a whole is a **** show now I just think its a loud minority that makes people view the whole as bad.
Click to expand...

These movements always start out with good intentions but somewhere along the line it goes downhill fast.

Feminism is one of those movements I think has outgrown it's cause because you have entitled western american women who most don't even have the slightest clue what women abroad have to go through in countries like India where there is a real rape culture and not just something a woman shouts after having consensual sex with a partner they now regret banging
 
RIP sleazyy said:
I saw people online talking down on the moms who participated in the DNC. Questioning if they really loved their sons and daughter. **** was disgusting.

About the feminism thing, I think their want for more women and others in the spotlight goes back to tribalism.

Women played a much bigger part in tribes/African culture than is shown here in America.

That patriarchy comment has some truth to it.
Click to expand...
This is a fair criticism.

But to be fair, the more nuanced critiques (peep a segment on last week's democracy now with Keaanga Yamahtta Taylor) did not take issue with the mothers of Sandra Bland, Tamir Rice, Jordan Davis, Eric Gardner being on stage. The criticism lay with how the DNC was attempting to symbolically  utilize black pain instead of prescribing real, concrete policies that addressed police killings. 
 
ObeahMyal7 said:
RIP sleazyy said:
I saw people online talking down on the moms who participated in the DNC. Questioning if they really loved their sons and daughter. **** was disgusting.


About the feminism thing, I think their want for more women and others in the spotlight goes back to tribalism.


Women played a much bigger part in tribes/African culture than is shown here in America.


That patriarchy comment has some truth to it.
Click to expand...

This is a fair criticism.

But to be fair, the more nuanced critiques (peep a segment on last week's democracy now with Keaanga Yamahtta Taylor) did not take issue with the mothers of Sandra Bland, Tamir Rice, Jordan Davis, Eric Gardner being on stage. The criticism lay with how the DNC was attempting to symbolically utilize black pain instead of prescribing real, concrete policies that addressed police killings. 
Click to expand...

Oh, so I wasn't the only one that felt the same way.
 
NYC game said:
 
An Armada said:
I see. I would just say I don't think feminism as a whole is a **** show now I just think its a loud minority that makes people view the whole as bad.
Click to expand...
These movements always start out with good intentions but somewhere along the line it goes downhill fast.

Feminism is one of those movements I think has outgrown it's cause because you have entitled western american women who most don't even have the slightest clue what women abroad have to go through in countries like India where there is a real rape culture and not just something a woman shouts after having consensual sex with a partner they now regret banging
Click to expand...
I would say just because it is worse in other places doesn't mean women here still do not have things to fight for. And rape and how America handles it is a serious issue that stems from women's historical treatment in the country and our piss poor sex education.
 
ObeahMyal7 said:
RIP sleazyy said:
I saw people online talking down on the moms who participated in the DNC. Questioning if they really loved their sons and daughter. **** was disgusting.


About the feminism thing, I think their want for more women and others in the spotlight goes back to tribalism.


Women played a much bigger part in tribes/African culture than is shown here in America.


That patriarchy comment has some truth to it.
Click to expand...

This is a fair criticism.

But to be fair, the more nuanced critiques (peep a segment on last week's democracy now with Keaanga Yamahtta Taylor) did not take issue with the mothers of Sandra Bland, Tamir Rice, Jordan Davis, Eric Gardner being on stage. The criticism lay with how the DNC was attempting to symbolically utilize black pain instead of prescribing real, concrete policies that addressed police killings. 
Click to expand...


I agree with that, that's honestly how I felt watching it. Like they were parading their pain and emotions for show.

Bad thing is a lot of the younger people don't watch or listen to the words of the educated, they parrot what they see on IG and the tweets. Had these dummies online saying Sandra Blands mama was tap dancing and wondering how much she got paid but claiming BLM the whole time. It's weird to watch how some of them move online.
 
RIP sleazyy said:
 
ObeahMyal7 said:
 
RIP sleazyy said:
I saw people online talking down on the moms who participated in the DNC. Questioning if they really loved their sons and daughter. **** was disgusting.


About the feminism thing, I think their want for more women and others in the spotlight goes back to tribalism.


Women played a much bigger part in tribes/African culture than is shown here in America.


That patriarchy comment has some truth to it.
Click to expand...
This is a fair criticism.

But to be fair, the more nuanced critiques (peep a segment on last week's democracy now with Keaanga Yamahtta Taylor) did not take issue with the mothers of Sandra Bland, Tamir Rice, Jordan Davis, Eric Gardner being on stage. The criticism lay with how the DNC was attempting to symbolically  utilize black pain instead of prescribing real, concrete policies that addressed police killings. 
Click to expand...

I agree with that, that's honestly how I felt watching it. Like they were parading their pain and emotions for show.

Bad thing is a lot of the younger people don't watch or listen to the words of the educated, they parrot what they see on IG and the tweets. Had these dummies online saying Sandra Blands mama was tap dancing and wondering how much she got paid but claiming BLM the whole time. It's weird to watch how some of them move online.
Click to expand...
The bolded part is the best way to tell the difference between someone who just uses the hashtag and someone that actually understands the goal of the movement and is part of the movement and how politics works.
 
An Armada said:
My issue is that the things you are saying to delegitimize feminism are analogous to things some white people say to delegitimize black movements. In the same way some white people shrug off the perspective of black problems and black movements you are shrugging off the perspective of  women's issue and women's movements.

Yeah It's really difficult to explain these things to people who are coming from the historically privileged group in our American society.
Click to expand...

this this this this.
Ran out of reps. Will rep on reup.
 
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