A conversation about North Africa

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Spoke to a friend the other day (were both Egyptians), and he was so adamant that we, along with Morocco, Algeria, etc., were Arab and not African

I looked at him like he was crazy, he refused to believe that we and those other countries are all African, even if were both basically white skinned

Thoughts?
 
Thats crazy had a convo about this at my job

My take on it is that African is different from African American which might be where he thinks saying we are african means black/african american

Its similar to calling someone from ecuador south american when they are also hispanic
 
Shorty Doo Wop said:
Thats crazy had a convo about this at my job

My take on it is that African is different from African American which might be where he thinks saying we are african means black/african american

Its similar to calling someone from ecuador south american when they are also hispanic
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That's what I thought he meant too

But he was like "we're just Arabs living in Africa"
 
"North" Africa, through colonialism and other factors is a very socially confused place. Through religion, ethnicity and language (debatable IMO) the people of North Africa are intimately connected to the people of the Middle East. Most of them consider themselves Middle Eastern, because the word "African" means black to them. 

A few tidbits though

1. Most people in the region can't decide which countries are considered North African. The consensus is that Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria and Morocco are for sure in. But what about Mauritania? What about Sudan? Both countries have majority Muslim populations and both countries have Arabic as the official language. 

2. A lot of the Arabs from the region are not technically "Arabs", they are Berbers. Berbers are the people who lived in the area before Arab Muslims came through, and forced them to adopt the language and religion. 

3. A lot of people in the Gulf and Levant regions of the Middle East dont even consider North Africans (except Egyptians) to be Arabs. They technically speak Arabic, but the dialects are very removed from traditional Arabic. As an Arabic speaker myself, I don't understand Algerian or Moroccan Arabic at all. 
 
Eddie Huang went to Sicily and talked a lot about the African/Arabic influences on their culture.

 
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AZwildcats said:
"North" Africa, through colonialism and other factors is a very socially confused place. Through religion, ethnicity and language (debatable IMO) the people of North Africa are intimately connected to the people of the Middle East. Most of them consider themselves Middle Eastern, because the word "African" means black to them. 

A few tidbits though

1. Most people in the region can't decide which countries are considered North African. The consensus is that Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria and Morocco are for sure in. But what about Mauritania? What about Sudan? Both countries have majority Muslim populations and both countries have Arabic as the official language. 

2. A lot of the Arabs from the region are not technically "Arabs", they are Berbers. Berbers are the people who lived in the area before Arab Muslims came through, and forced them to adopt the language and religion. 

3. A lot of people in the Gulf and Levant regions of the Middle East dont even consider North Africans (except Egyptians) to be Arabs. They technically speak Arabic, but the dialects are very removed from traditional Arabic. As an Arabic speaker myself, I don't understand Algerian or Moroccan Arabic at all. 
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Cosign the Berber. Youll see some with reddish hair, even black hair but their beards will be a reddish color.
 
Blew my mind when i found out there was black mexicans/guatemalens/hondoruns etc.
 
Yea some of the North Africans been saying they not African , they wanna be with the Middle East ...they say they relate more to middle eastern ppl, language , religion n overall culture than the rest of Africa so even tho they geographically on the continent they don't feel their from there

Africa a huge continent with many different ppl n things going on so its kinda understandable how they feel ...they still can't deny where their countries are located tho
 
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I know nothing about this stuff but I get why they think they are more Arab than African. Lots of immigrants here in the US still think of themselves as something else (e.g., Chinese, Indian, Mexican etc.).

Culture of your family is always way stronger an influence on what u feel you are than geography. This is changing with the Internet etc imo because that is an old skool way of life. People didn't know what else is out there so they stick to what they know like nutcases and protect their "identity". Nowadays with all the information we have the younger generation is way more fluid in their definition of who they are.
 
Denial due to imperialism and delusions of superiority.

Then Russians part of Asia too.
 
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It's funny this topic came up. Got a few people in my grad program who are from North Africa and they checked "African American" on their app. So they are automatically in the Black Students Association :lol:

Smooth way for them and the school to finesse like they have more black people in the class then they do.
 
North Africa is part of the MENA region and is inhabited largely by ethnic arabs and berbers. Yes, it's technically part of Africa geographically, but vastly different in terms of demographics, culture etc. from the rest of the continent and amongst each other.
 
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I´ll never forget the time I was working for an Egyptian company, Arab Contractors. There was 2 Egyptians dudes talking, one darker with ancestry from Northern Sudan but hes a 2nd generation Egyptian and a regular Arab Egyptian. Arab cat straight stopped the conversation mid sentence when darker dude tried to call himself Egyptian. He literally wouldn´t allow that man to refer to himself as Egyptian.
 
Wavy Daddy said:
Blew my mind when i found out there was black mexicans/guatemalens/hondoruns etc.
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I love stuff like this. My buddy's wife is Peruvian, but of Japanese descent.

Also, there are a lot of Chinese Panamanians. Back in the day, there were ample job opportunities to work on the canal, and they set up camp (and are still there.)

Same can be said about the Asian influence in the islands like Jamaica.

But, back on topic....HEAVY French and Middle Eastern influence in N. Africa. My wife's side of the family is from Algeria/Morocco. They are obviously African countries, but many folks identify themselves with being Arab. Nothing wrong with that.
 
If you're a modern Egyptian, highly likely you're not African
 
The fact that these cats let a bunch of white people tell them what they are and they want so much to disconnect from Africa that they take it and run w/ it is actaully quite sad in my opinion. Some maps add Egypt to the Middle East, while others omit it, what's stopping more countries from being added to further separate themselves from Africa?

Sucks how such a great country was ravaged and pillaged by different groups and forcing them to lose their identity :smh:
 
I really wana know what happened to all the aztec mayans that just disappeared. As far advanced as they were, da hell happened to em?
 
Ethnic identity is much stronger than national or continental considerations when you live in Africa.

The pro-African sentiment within people from the Maghreb is much more prevalent among people who live outside of the continent. You notice that in popular music, Algerians, Moroccans, Tunisians have no issue being represented alongside Senegalese or Malian artists (anyone familiar with the Rai'n'B movement of the early 00's?). In general, the people from that region that I met here had no qualms about identifying as Africans.

All of this dies down on the continent though. I have a lot of friends who studied in the Maghreb and most, if not all, told me that the locals are very explicit in their dislike of sub-Saharan Africans. They don't miss an opportunity to remind them that this is not their home and my friends made very few local friends outside of the other non-Arab Africans.
 
Belgium has a large Moroccan population and for as long as I can remember, people have always associated them with the middle east. I would hope we all know Morocco is an African country but for whatever reason they're always labeled as arabic.

One of my childhood friends is Moroccan and he identifies as arabic. Many Moroccans seem to do so.
 
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