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Washington Wizards 2016-2017 Season Thread - First Round Series vs. Hawks (2-1) Game 4 Monday, 8PM ET. - Page 8

Poll Results: How many wins will the Wizards get this season?

Poll expired: Oct 31, 2016  
  • 0% (0)
    Best year ever: over 60 wins
  • 0% (0)
    Best finish in a generation: between 50 and 60 wins
  • 54% (6)
    A winning season, barely: 43-49 wins
  • 36% (4)
    A losing season: 42-30 wins
  • 9% (1)
    A total disaster, under 30 wins
11 Total Votes  
post #211 of 462
Rockets last night....in the words of Denny Green, "they are who we thought they were." Wizards were CRUISING until the 3rd quarter. Not sure what happened as I dozed off. .500 was nice while it lasted laugh.gif

Let's regroup and beat Dallas.
post #212 of 462
John Wall named Eastern Conference player of the week and player of the month for December smokin.gif , league taking notice it would be a shame if he doesn't make the all star team but it's gonna be ROUGH to keep some guys off who have better records

As for last nights game, I haven't watched Houston at all this season and if this is really how they play every night I'm shellshocked. They shoot more unnecessary threes than I've ever seen in my life but I guess they do it because simple math would tend to tell you if they make enough of them you got no chance of beating them. The Wizards fell into the trap of trying to trade 3's in the third and fourth quarter and it killed them last night. And James Harden while he may be hands down MVP he's the most annoying player to watch in the league, I despise the flopping but damn is he elite at it. Eric Gordon destroyed us last night, he is shooting the hell out of the ball off the bench. Wish we had someone like that... eyes.gif
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post #213 of 462

Going to the game today :p

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post #214 of 462
Since the 2-8 start, the Wizards are 19-11.

Today was one of those days where EVERYTHING worked in their favor. Despite the limitations of the bench, Scotty Brooks has been doing a fantastic job with his rotations and with his overall coaching.

Oubre looks to be fully recovered from his concussion and has been playing well.

Jason Smith has a pulse and is doing some dirty work out there on the floor.

Sato, with a double-double today.

Just need these three to keep up the good play. A stronger bench would probably mean 3+ more wins for this team.

Let's keep i going vs. the Grizzlies.
post #215 of 462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJs07 View Post

The worst part about the potential Deng signing, is that he surely would have taken minutes away from either Otto or Oubre. Deng is no where near being as good as Otto is right now, and you can make an argument that Oubre is better as well. Lakers saved the Wizards from themselves.

 

And if he'd signed Deng, that would've be IT for Otto Porter.  It's revealing, and worries me a bit about a possible Porter trade.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJs07 View Post

Since the 2-8 start, the Wizards are 19-11.

Today was one of those days where EVERYTHING worked in their favor. Despite the limitations of the bench, Scotty Brooks has been doing a fantastic job with his rotations and with his overall coaching.

Oubre looks to be fully recovered from his concussion and has been playing well.

Jason Smith has a pulse and is doing some dirty work out there on the floor.

Sato, with a double-double today.

Just need these three to keep up the good play. A stronger bench would probably mean 3+ more wins for this team.

Let's keep i going vs. the Grizzlies.

 

I agree that Brooks, while perhaps not the best possible coach for this team, has proven himself the type of upgrade we'd hoped he would be over Randy Wittman.  (i.e. competent.)  

 

He and his staff LEARN.  They try different things.  You can see improvement from both the coaching staff and the players.

 

That said, the bench couldn't possibly play any worse than they did at the beginning of the season.  Their relative success is partly a credit to the staff recognizing what each player is capable of and trying to put them in position to succeed - but it's worth noting that Wall started the season on a minutes restriction after double knee surgery.  His minutes have gone up.  Guys like Jason Smith are getting more time with Wall on the floor.  The starters are logging pretty heavy minutes - and if you look at the teams we've beaten of late, the "signature win" was against the Clippers.  Griffin played in that game, but was clearly not 100% and would not play the following games. 

 

I have to temper my optimism, not just because this doesn't seem sustainable (the schedule will get harder and, aside from Mahinmi, this team has been very fortunate with injuries), but because the true worst case scenario for this team was an 8th place finish and more Ernie Grunfeld.  We're headed in that direction.  

 

 

It's been reported that Brooks will have "a say" in the Wizards personnel decisions, but that's not terribly encouraging considering a) Randy Wittman reportedly had the same "privilege"  b) there's no reason to believe that he can work magic on this roster and render Mahinmi or other bad contracts tradable  c) Ernie still has the first and final say.

 

 

February will be a nerve-wracking month for Wizards fans.  The Ernie's deadline deals are almost always a disaster and, this year, we may have to contend with the narrative change that would result from Wall missing the All Star Team.  With the Hornets' slide, you'd like to think that Wall will edge out the like of Kemba Walker, but, if recent All Star history has taught us nothing else, fans' voting is a product of ignorance and coaches' voting a product of politics. 

post #216 of 462

Went to the game today.

 

Was amazing :Nthat.

 

75 points at the half!!!

 

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post #217 of 462
Nobody beats the Wiz
post #218 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodical Management View Post

And if he'd signed Deng, that would've be IT for Otto Porter.  It's revealing, and worries me a bit about a possible Porter trade.


I agree that Brooks, while perhaps not the best possible coach for this team, has proven himself the type of upgrade we'd hoped he would be over Randy Wittman.  (i.e. competent.)  

He and his staff LEARN.  They try different things.  You can see improvement from both the coaching staff and the players.

That said, the bench couldn't possibly play any worse than they did at the beginning of the season.  Their relative success is partly a credit to the staff recognizing what each player is capable of and trying to put them in position to succeed - but it's worth noting that Wall started the season on a minutes restriction after double knee surgery.  His minutes have gone up.  Guys like Jason Smith are getting more time with Wall on the floor.  The starters are logging pretty heavy minutes - and if you look at the teams we've beaten of late, the "signature win" was against the Clippers.  Griffin played in that game, but was clearly not 100% and would not play the following games. 

I have to temper my optimism, not just because this doesn't seem sustainable (the schedule will get harder and, aside from Mahinmi, this team has been very fortunate with injuries), but because the true worst case scenario for this team was an 8th place finish and more Ernie Grunfeld.  We're headed in that direction.  


It's been reported that Brooks will have "a say" in the Wizards personnel decisions, but that's not terribly encouraging considering a) Randy Wittman reportedly had the same "privilege"  b) there's no reason to believe that he can work magic on this roster and render Mahinmi or other bad contracts tradable  c) Ernie still has the first and final say.


February will be a nerve-wracking month for Wizards fans.  The Ernie's deadline deals are almost always a disaster and, this year, we may have to contend with the narrative change that would result from Wall missing the All Star Team.  With the Hornets' slide, you'd like to think that Wall will edge out the like of Kemba Walker, but, if recent All Star history has taught us nothing else, fans' voting is a product of ignorance and coaches' voting a product of politics. 

Possibly the best thing about us missing the Playoffs again is that Ernie might actually be fired this time.. It seems more pressure than ever is being put on Ted to fix this problem.
post #219 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodical Management View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJs07 View Post

The worst part about the potential Deng signing, is that he surely would have taken minutes away from either Otto or Oubre. Deng is no where near being as good as Otto is right now, and you can make an argument that Oubre is better as well. Lakers saved the Wizards from themselves.

And if he'd signed Deng, that would've be IT for Otto Porter.  It's revealing, and worries me a bit about a possible Porter trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJs07 View Post

Since the 2-8 start, the Wizards are 19-11.


Today was one of those days where EVERYTHING worked in their favor. Despite the limitations of the bench, Scotty Brooks has been doing a fantastic job with his rotations and with his overall coaching.


Oubre looks to be fully recovered from his concussion and has been playing well.


Jason Smith has a pulse and is doing some dirty work out there on the floor.


Sato, with a double-double today.


Just need these three to keep up the good play. A stronger bench would probably mean 3+ more wins for this team.


Let's keep i going vs. the Grizzlies.

I agree that Brooks, while perhaps not the best possible coach for this team, has proven himself the type of upgrade we'd hoped he would be over Randy Wittman.  (i.e. competent.)  

He and his staff LEARN.  They try different things.  You can see improvement from both the coaching staff and the players.

That said, the bench couldn't possibly play any worse than they did at the beginning of the season.  Their relative success is partly a credit to the staff recognizing what each player is capable of and trying to put them in position to succeed - but it's worth noting that Wall started the season on a minutes restriction after double knee surgery.  His minutes have gone up.  Guys like Jason Smith are getting more time with Wall on the floor.  The starters are logging pretty heavy minutes - and if you look at the teams we've beaten of late, the "signature win" was against the Clippers.  Griffin played in that game, but was clearly not 100% and would not play the following games. 

I have to temper my optimism, not just because this doesn't seem sustainable (the schedule will get harder and, aside from Mahinmi, this team has been very fortunate with injuries), but because the true worst case scenario for this team was an 8th place finish and more Ernie Grunfeld.  We're headed in that direction.  


It's been reported that Brooks will have "a say" in the Wizards personnel decisions, but that's not terribly encouraging considering a) Randy Wittman reportedly had the same "privilege"  b) there's no reason to believe that he can work magic on this roster and render Mahinmi or other bad contracts tradable  c) Ernie still has the first and final say.


February will be a nerve-wracking month for Wizards fans.  The Ernie's deadline deals are almost always a disaster and, this year, we may have to contend with the narrative change that would result from Wall missing the All Star Team.  With the Hornets' slide, you'd like to think that Wall will edge out the like of Kemba Walker, but, if recent All Star history has taught us nothing else, fans' voting is a product of ignorance and coaches' voting a product of politics. 

I think the year away from basketball was the best thing for Scott Brooks. I was EXTREMELY skeptical about the hire, but he's really done a wonderful job from the jump. Ernie Grunfeld didn't give him a lot to work with outside of the starters, but it says a lot that 4/5 guys are having career years offensively, Oubre is starting to develop into a true 3&D threat, and a guy like McClellan is actually getting rotational minutes as a UDFA. None of these things would be possible with Randy Wittman still in charge.

Like you, I'm a little nervous about February. That trade deadline is quickly approaching, and the last thing I want Grunfeld to do is try to make a trade to salvage HIS career. I'd be furious if a young asset like Oubre or Porter was moved for a downtrending vet like Rudy Gay. That just can't happen. HOPEFULLY, Mahinmi is healthy by then, and they look at his activation as more of a roster move than what a trade would bring in. Obviously, he's been non-existent this season, but this team needs all that it can get to bolster the bench.

As far as the Wall All-Star push, him being 7th or 8th (whatever he is) in the fan voting is more of a reflection of him being underrated/underappreciated by folks who "follow" the league. IMO, he is hands down the best PG in the East and his spot shouldn't be up for debate. But here we are...SMH.
post #220 of 462
On the heels of our Feb trade deadline chat, check this out:

Potential trade targets who could use a fresh start on the Wizards
post #221 of 462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StaffSgtDignam View Post

Possibly the best thing about us missing the Playoffs again is that Ernie might actually be fired this time.. It seems more pressure than ever is being put on Ted to fix this problem.

 

We talked about it earlier in the year, there's no GM - probably in all of pro sports - who's received more latitude and tolerance of failure than Ernie.  

 

Allowing him the opportunity to mortgage the team's future, yet AGAIN, on a "job saving" playoff push is illustrative of everything wrong with this franchise.  That starts at the top.  Let's be honest:  the real problem with this franchise historically is bad ownership.  

 

It would probably take a total nightmare season for Ted to let Ernie go - before his contract expires, at least.  Everyone knew Randy Wittman was not an NBA head coach, but even at a bargain price Ted INSISTED on riding out the full term.  

 

 

Any success this franchise experiences under Ted Leonsis will be attributable to luck.  The only real value we have on this roster is the product of lottery luck and obvious, consensus draft selections.  Only ONE coaching candidate was interviewed.  We could've done better.  We could've done worse.  It's a coin flip.  

 

Sadly, even IF Ernie is fired we can expect more of the same in the evaluation process of his potential replacement.  Ted won't interview many people.  He won't perform much due diligence.  He won't spend in the way that a premier franchise would.  It'll come down, again, to luck.  

 

Really, who would he likely hire?  Water cooler racist Danny Ferry?  The Spurs' assistant video coordinator?  

 

We all want Ernie gone.  Every year he's here sets this franchise back and I'd rather take the coin flip for a chance at success than face the certain and perpetual failure that has so defined this organization.  Still, I worry that even a new GM would just be applying wallpaper to cover the cracks in the foundation.  

 

How can Ted fix the problem when he is the problem?  

 

 

In a way, allowing Ted to choose the new GM is much the same as allowing Ernie to make the bad deadline trade we're all dreading. 

 

I'd rather he just sell the team to pout about how he's not getting a public stadium deal.  (Meanwhile, the Warriors are building their SF arena with private funding.  Go figure.)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJs07 View Post
 
I think the year away from basketball was the best thing for Scott Brooks. I was EXTREMELY skeptical about the hire, but he's really done a wonderful job from the jump. Ernie Grunfeld didn't give him a lot to work with outside of the starters, but it says a lot that 4/5 guys are having career years offensively, Oubre is starting to develop into a true 3&D threat, and a guy like McClellan is actually getting rotational minutes as a UDFA. None of these things would be possible with Randy Wittman still in charge.

Like you, I'm a little nervous about February. That trade deadline is quickly approaching, and the last thing I want Grunfeld to do is try to make a trade to salvage HIS career. I'd be furious if a young asset like Oubre or Porter was moved for a downtrending vet like Rudy Gay. That just can't happen. HOPEFULLY, Mahinmi is healthy by then, and they look at his activation as more of a roster move than what a trade would bring in. Obviously, he's been non-existent this season, but this team needs all that it can get to bolster the bench.

As far as the Wall All-Star push, him being 7th or 8th (whatever he is) in the fan voting is more of a reflection of him being underrated/underappreciated by folks who "follow" the league. IMO, he is hands down the best PG in the East and his spot shouldn't be up for debate. But here we are...SMH.

 

I saw Brooks as an upgrade, but I was down on the hire for a few reasons.  First, and most obviously, hiring Brooks to lure KD was exceptionally stupid.  It's the sort of move that reinforces the Wizards' status as a laughingstock.  Second, they didn't interview ANY other candidates.  Setting aside, for a moment, the dubious ethics of that, even if we care nothing about fairness and society and only for the state of the franchise, we must agree that such a hiring "process" will not produce superior candidates.  You wouldn't renovate a bathroom that way, much less build a billion dollar sports franchise.  Lastly, Brooks seemed very much like a "time slot hit."  Yes, they made it to the NBA Finals once, but this guy had, potentially, three future MVPs on that roster and still fell short.  It was difficult to really parse out the extent to which player development really drove the team's success - particularly since all three of those guys are now playing better basketball separately, with different franchises.  Can it really be said, then, that he got the most out of his players?  

 

I will give Brooks and his staff credit.  They have thus far exceeded my expectations as being merely average as an upgrade to awful.  The offense, at times, has looked better.  We're seeing signs of growth.  He is at least open to change and learning from past mistakes.  The team's body language of late has been much improved.  Guys are actively cheering for each other out there - and this season could have been toxic given the start.  He's had nothing to work with from the bench, so any production they're able to get from those guys at least helps us turn an otherwise wasted roster spot into a player that can potentially be included in a trade.

 

As for the trade front:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJs07 View Post

On the heels of our Feb trade deadline chat, check this out:

Potential trade targets who could use a fresh start on the Wizards

 

I find that to be a lot of wishful thinking, in none of those proposals honestly involves players that any other team would want.  I think it's fair to say that Utah would be unequivocally disinterested in trading Derrick Favors for Marcin Gortat, for example, and I have a hard time believing that there's a market out there for packages consisting of undrafted players and second round picks.  

 

Similarly, nobody - and I mean nobody - wants any part of Andrew Nicholson right now.  We've talked about Brooks salvaging some production from the likes of Trey Burke, Jason Smith, and Sheldan McLellan, but Nicholson got paid this summer and has been a DNP-CD machine ever since.  

 

They seemingly can't put him on the floor.  We'd been told over and over again that this was a guy who would impress, who was due for a breakout year, who was a hidden gem on Orlando's awful bench.  To me, he's a guy with a game that's better suited to a bygone era, where it was not only acceptable, but desirable to have a lumbering power forward with an array of low post moves.  In today's NBA, he lacks the quickness or versatility to be out there on defense and you're not running your offense by feeding Andrew Nicholson in the post.  He has no place.  We talk about player development, but Nicholson is a player who will require a tremendous amount of work before you can even trade him at a loss.  

 

Realistically, this team will have a hard time getting anywhere until they can get out from under the two biggest off-season blunders:  Mahinmi and Nicholson.

 

 

I'm worried that, instead of moving the undesirables, the Wizards will make that big panic trade we're all dreading.  Ernie's pursuit of Deng and willingness to allow him to become a RFA this summer shows, to me, that he doesn't value Porter.  A Porter trade now would be an unmitigated disaster.  Due to the RFA status, you're unlikely to get value.  It adds a layer of uncertainty and his current salary limits what we can take back.  Ernie, in all probability, will not move Porter for someone else's #1.  It's a job saving trade, so he'd make a deal for someone established.  To make the numbers match, he'd have to throw in garbage like Mahinmi, which would make the deal worse, (e.g. the Rudy Gay trade we would all HATE) or create additional holes in the roster by bundling him with Gortat and/or Morris, who are "budget starters."  

 

Realistically, a Grunfeld job save special will involve giving up someone with a future, and probably someone we'd prefer to keep, rather than this wishful thinking list where we get something intriguing for a package of players nobody else wants.  One thing is for certain: we'll all be counting the hours until the deadline is over this year. 

post #222 of 462
If they make any trades the Wiz gotta target bench players or young guys on good contracts who need some playing time to possibly help boost the bench ...these kinda trades can be made without involving key pieces unless they get swindled
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post #223 of 462
Thread Starter 

I think some of us had flashbacks to the first Grizzlies game, where Gasol took over and the Wizards choked away a significant lead.  At least this time, they'd built a larger cushion, were playing at home, and held on.  

 

How sad is it that this team's 13 game home winning streak is the franchise's longest since 1989?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by frshstunna View Post

If they make any trades the Wiz gotta target bench players or young guys on good contracts who need some playing time to possibly help boost the bench ...these kinda trades can be made without involving key pieces unless they get swindled

 

The problem is that, if we're not giving up any key pieces, we're left with bad bench players.  Another team would have to value those bad bench players more than their own.

 

It's easy to say "let's trade two rotten apples for one good apple," but how many people would prefer the two rotten apples?  You have to find someone willing to trade a good player for garbage, and usually that doesn't happen unless there's a bad contract attached.  Thanks to Ernie's brilliant cap management, we don't have space. 


As it is, we're already heading into a situation where Otto's due for a big raise and we have an empty bench.  We can't afford any more bad contracts with Mahinmi and, to a lesser extent, Nicholson on the books.  

 

 

 

You never like to see anyone suffer a significant injury, but Rudy Gay's torn achilles tendon will at least keep the Wizards from making that specific mistake.  It remains to be seen whether Ernie can resist the temptation to trade Otto.  I suspect, at least, that he's not yet ready to give up on Mahinmi, and Otto on his rookie scale deal would likely be their best bet to package with Mahinmi in pursuit of an established player.

post #224 of 462

Dat win doe 8o.

 

Want to cop a Wall jersey. 

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post #225 of 462
J-Wall knows how to put a win together as an elite point guard. His confidence carries to the other players - something the Knicks lack in Melo.
post #226 of 462
Wall is already my current favorite player.

My All Time favorites are Zeke , Jason Kidd , Bobby Jones , Andrew Toney and Kevin Johnson
post #227 of 462

Tough loss

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post #228 of 462

Great win tonight!

 

Thought wearing black for the "funeral" was a little much, but they backed it up :lol​​

post #229 of 462
That was fun laugh.gif

Was really hoping they'd win. Wouldn't have been able to deal with social media/my friends from Boston if they laid an egg.
post #230 of 462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentZero View Post
 

Great win tonight!

 

Thought wearing black for the "funeral" was a little much, but they backed it up :lol​​

 

Agreed.  The "funeral" thing was a little silly - but I like the team unity it represents.  You see players on this team pulling for each other far more than was the case earlier in the year.  

 

Even Scott Brooks was jawing with Isiah Thomas tonight, after a hard foul on Beal. 

 

 

The holes on this team were still pretty apparent against Boston's versatility, but Beal and Wall really wanted this one and their aggression carried the day. 

post #231 of 462

:Nthat Team has been lookin nice

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post #232 of 462
Agreed as corny as it was...at least it added extra interest to the game. The Wiz were talked about on around the horn and PTI because of the funeral thing. Then that forces them to mention the home winning streak which was nice.

And team unity is never a bad thing. Glad we won
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post #233 of 462
Fellas...look at the Wall/Beal/Oubre/Porter/Gortat lineup eek.gifpimp.gif

2r7mq05.png
post #234 of 462
Thread Starter 

post #235 of 462

Wall headed to the all-star game 

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post #236 of 462
We're a major injury away from falling apart. I don't think that's any secret. However, while things are still going good...and health willing, why not go for Cleveland's neck and that #1 seed?

Loved what I heard out of Wall last night on TNT. He said their goal is the ECF. Let's get it. pimp.gif
post #237 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodical Management View Post



Is this Suzy's funeral ?
post #238 of 462
Loving The Play Lately pimp.gif

But The Thought Winning And A Conference Finals Or Conf Semi Appearance Means Ernie Stays mean.gifsick.gif
post #239 of 462
loving what the team is doing as of late.
post #240 of 462

ive been watching the wizards play lately and cant fathom how they are not getting the respect they deserve

 

they have been playing so well its almost unreal yet vegas keeps disrespecting them and placing them as big dogs and every time they come out on top (cant complain though been enjoying my winnings courtesy of wall and company):Nthat

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NikeTalk › NikeTalk Forums › The Lounge › Sports & Training › Washington Wizards 2016-2017 Season Thread - First Round Series vs. Hawks (2-1) Game 4 Monday, 8PM ET.